Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Tesla Unveils $35,000 Model 3 Electric Car, Shipping Late 2017
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
It takes me about 30 seconds to fill up my petrol car, so that's 150 times quicker than recharging a Tesla.
I can't see the general public buying electric cars for decades.
Last edited:
A full-year 2015 loss of $889 million means Tesla is currently losing almost $1 billion a year.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/teslas-fourth-quarter-loss-nearly-triples-1455140842
The article you quoted clearly states that:
Way to post something that doesn't support your argument but instead again proves my point that Tesla is bleeding money.
Last edited:
Nah. You're just trolling. You have no point. Maybe your comment was meant to be funny, in which case you clearly failed your comedy class. Either you're nuts or lousy at sarcasm. Either way, adds nothing to the conversation.
What can I say... I think that Tesla design looks like a generic japanese sport sedan: totally non charismatic.
Totally disagree. Yes, it's much faster to fill up a car with gas than recharge, no argument. But so what? The only time this matters is if you exceed the range and need to take a break from driving to recharge while on a long trip. Most people don't drive 200+ miles a day. For someone who does, sure, an EV makes no sense. But for everyone else, come home, plug it in, and it's good to go in a few hours. Having to stop once in a blue moon to recharge on a long journey isn't a big deal.
Range, not charge time, is the main reason EVs haven't caught on. Other than Tesla, range hasn't been adequate. 100ish miles is not enough. 200+ is plenty for the market to grow significantly at the right price point. Model 3 achieves that.
Literally 30 seconds from empty to full?
For a 15 gallon tank that is a flow rate of ½ gallon per second or 30 gallons per minute. In the US the EPA limits flow rate to 10 gallons per minute and most stations are well under that and often at about 5 gallons per minute.Gas vs Electricity
In day to day driving going to the gas station every couple of weeks is one huge inconvenient PIA. I dread it almost every time (time, traffic, pump availability, price up/down, crowded, cold, hot, smelly, nasty hands,....). Also lets not forget to check our oil level and add if needed (another enjoyable job).
Plugging the car in at night in my garage would be so much easer than going to get gas in every day driving. The only time going to a gas station would be a benefit over charging is on a long trip. Almost no one travels over 200 (or even 100) miles a day more that a few times a year. So the convenience of not having to go to the gas station every couple of weeks would outweigh the inconvenience of requiring an hour charging stop vs 15 minute gas station stop on the 4 +/- times a year you go on a trip.
Last edited:
No way. It takes about five minutes all up to refuel my car 70 litres, then go pay. I'm "general public"! People will be buying electric cars in droves before the decade is out. The Model 3 is incredible, nice price. In fact, electric cars are more incredible when you factor in all the nonsense with the consumables required for combustion engine cars; oil changes, gas refuelling, spark plug replacements, fuel filters, air filters, radiator replacements, timing belts, coolant, etcetera. These all cost and need to be replaced multiple times during the life of a conventional car. They're non existent in a Tesla! (How lovely.)
I drive to work and back, and to work and back, and to work and back. Then at the end of the week, when I drive back home, the car recharges overnight. I'm on a road trip with friends, we break for lunch and the car recharges while eating. 215 miles equals about 3 1/2 hours constant highway driving or 6 hours of constant city driving, no stops. This for most people is much more than adequate.
I'm looking forward to see what Apple releases in this space. This is the stuff of dreams, the future is really here now and accessible to everyone. I'm completely enthusiastic about shifting gears to electric.
In most countries (and even the majority of U.S. states) there would be a front licence plate there as well.
Oh give it a rest. This is such bs. They took deposits on the S and the X and are delivering those just fine, albeit slowly with the X. You clearly can't grasp the difference between a refundable deposit and a Ponzi scheme. People who support Tesla support the vision, even if it's not perfectly executed, even if there are delays. Whatever. This and your other comments have no basis in reality and are just negative, mean-spirited garbage.
Actually it is if you have a very limited number of choices where you want to stop and recharging involves more then the 10 or so minutes it takes to refill a tank and be good for another 400 or so miles. If you had charging options nearly as frequently as yo uno for gas then, yes, it's no big deal. Right now, that is not the case; and when you add in the likelihood there won't be a charging station where you stay on, say a vacation, that lets you simply plug in the car and go to your room as you do at home you have another problem to overcome to drive greater demand for EV's.
The lack of market obviously explains why Tesla, GM, Ford, and many European companies are spending money and planning all EV vehicles to roll out in the next few years.
I thought I also heard a rumor about Apple developing a car, but its probably a baseless rumor.
GM is releasing the Bolt, at about the same price point and range, with a 20 minutes to 80% recharge time. When you buy things, do you buy them for how you usually use them or for the exceptions? Most people don't drive more than 100 miles a day, normally. A few times during the year they make a longer trip. Do you buy something for 99% usage or for the 1%?I did not reserve a Tesla, but I'm not knocking those who do. And as far as time ( and even fuel efficiency ) a fast car is a really slow airplane. If you have a long trip it's probably cheaper, to fly to the destination and rent a car locally rather than devalue your car by putting 600-2000 miles on it by driving there and back, if time and current cost is your only criteria.
Last edited:
The more relevant factor is how long it would take you to drive 600 miles. Assuming you drive at an average of 60 mph and need to stop twice for filling up gas (which each takes you 5 minutes including getting off and back on the highway) that's 10 h 10 min. With a Telsa, you might need three charging stops at 45 min each (40 minutes for charging, 5 minutes for getting off and on the highway), that adds up to 12 h 15 min, or 20% more. If the first charge happens at your starting point before you get going that reduces things to 11 h 30 min or 13% more time. Surely, taking 13% more time is not exactly a showstopper.
Inventing problems that don't exist. First, if you can't handle stopping somewhere you don't want to stop for 30 minutes so your car can recharge on a once in a blue moon trip, I'd say you need to grow up and stop thinking the world revolves around you. How petty. It's amazing how the smallest inconveniences are such huge issues to some people these days. Since that's such a big deal for you, DON'T BUY AN EV. Have you looked at Tesla's supercharger map? There are quite a few (in the US). Many hotels offer free EV charging for guests. Oh, but then you might have to stay someplace you don't want to stay! Again, if all of this is so bothersome to you, DON'T BUY AN EV.
Gas was not readily available 24 hours a day. Even on major highways. There were 24 hour truck stops on major highways, if the place you wanted to go happened to be along that route. But they were spread out kind of like supercharger stations are today.
You somehow think the issues I point out that prevent people, not just me, from buying EV's are petty and should be ignored. Maybe so, but the facts are that those are things that drive buying decisions, an thus limit EV's popularity at they current time. Ad hominem attacks on your part do not change the facts, and until EV's address those concerns they will be more of a novelty than a viable option. People, not just me, drive more than 200 miles "once in a blue moon" People, not just me, like to decide when and where to stop and stay or refuel and not have that dictated by the vehicle they drive. I have no doubt EV's will overcome those issues at some point in time but their not there yet, despite your dismissing of those concerns as petty and self centered.
As for the supercharger map, I have and while some areas have coverage there are still plenty enough holes, even along major interstates, to make the issue of the viability of a Tesla for longer distance travel a reasonable one.
True, but gas was readily available, at least in daytime, along most major routes, even pre-interstate; to the point of on some highways signs being posted if gas was not available of several hundred miles. In addition, throughput capacity is greater at a gas station as you can fill about 4 cars in the time it takes to charge a Tesla, so as the number of Teslas on the road increase the charging stations will have to keep pace or else people will be upset and Tesla's reputation will suffer. tesla does have the advantage of being able to track use and driving habits to decide where to build out first, which should help that problem. I'd say the situation with EV's is more akin to that in the early 20's where the technology was starting to take off but not to the point of rapid adoption, but once the infrastructure and costs of ownership they doubled in 10 years, and then took 40 years to double again. Given EVs will probably replace ICE cars rather than represent new purchases as they did before 2000 we'll probably see a slower rise in ownership until the economics of EV vs ICE cross. Even then, EV adoption may be limited by the turnover rate of ownership.
As long as you all acknowledge that you are driving Coal and Nuclear powered vehicles that require you to adapt your needs to the car instead of the car to your needs, then you have my support.
If you get all self righteous about saving the planet and how you never need to go farther than 200 miles, then you are on your own.
The idea that you will buy a plane ticket anytime you need to drive more than three hours is hilarious. A plane ticket for four people and 300 lbs of luggage? Funny stuff, keep it coming, but in reality, it is a second, commuter car. Like that ragtop roadster in the garage that you never take on trips because it doesn't have any trunk space or a spare tire.
Can any of the Teslas tow anything? If so, what is the capacity? I've not been able to locate any data on that thus far.
If you get all self righteous about saving the planet and how you never need to go farther than 200 miles, then you are on your own.
The idea that you will buy a plane ticket anytime you need to drive more than three hours is hilarious. A plane ticket for four people and 300 lbs of luggage? Funny stuff, keep it coming, but in reality, it is a second, commuter car. Like that ragtop roadster in the garage that you never take on trips because it doesn't have any trunk space or a spare tire.
Can any of the Teslas tow anything? If so, what is the capacity? I've not been able to locate any data on that thus far.
And ICE cars have yet to duplicate the EV model of having a personal "gas pump" at home. Surely that offsets a lot of the range issues.
It does for local use, and makes the EV a very viable option in that scenario. The question is "How many people are willing to buy an EV primarily for local use and is that enough volume to sustain a company such as Tesla?"
So far the teams delivered: the Roadster, Model S, Model X and in SpaceX fly to the ISS, ... I do not call that a particularly bad track record, ... ,-)
Model X is 5000lbs.
http://www.hybridcars.com/tesla-model-x-towing-capacity-cut-to-3500-pounds-with-22-inch-wheels/
Here is an S towing 4400lbs
http://gas2.org/2015/03/12/tesla-caught-testing-towing-up-to-4400-lb-capacity/
A Tesla should be "smart" enough to know when it doesn't have the range to get to the next charging station, and it should alert you that you are about to pass the last Supercharger for 100 miles. This is even better than a sign on the highway that you might miss.
I understand what you're saying about the adoption curve, but I strongly suspect we are now farther along that curve than you think. Remember the first time you saw an expensive flat-screen show up in a big box store next to all the CRT's. From there to the total disappearance of CRTs was a blink of an eye. EV adoption won't be quite that fast, but I think by 2030, you'll pay a premium if you want/need an ICE in your new vehicle. And gas stations will start to vanish the way chemical film developing equipment vanished from your local drug store.