Tesla Unveils $35,000 Model 3 Electric Car, Shipping Late 2017

[jlc1978]

I don't know why someone needs to own one vehicle that does everything if there are more cost effective ways of doing it.

Purchasing a family car is a big investment for most people, and they are looking at getting vehicles that cover as much of their anticipated needs as possible, and for a family sedan some needs may be viewed as must haves unless their is a compelling reason to not meet them. When they can buy a car for the same price that does more, in their view, than another they are likely to chose it, since the main cost they see is purchase price or monthly payments. They are not looking at the TOC. It may be oration but it is the decision making process many employ. In addition, loss aversion may play a role as well. People are much more adverse to a loss than a gain, and may see the inability to do a long trip and the added expense of renting a car to do so as a loss, which will weigh more heavily than any gains from owning an EV. It doesn't have to make sense but ultimately if that is what drives decision making then that is what must be overcome to promote greater EV use.

One area I am curious about is how fast the Tesla's battery loses capacity over time and what capacity must degrade to for Tesla to consider it a warranty issue vs normal behavior and thus not a warranty issue. That has implications for resale value as well as the spacing of charging stations since those with range of a 100% battery may be too far apart for an 80% one.

 

[smacrumon]

Yeah, and look at all the rest in that parking lot that would also have to be served if they were EV. And whom is going to foot the bill for that infrastructure? Not to mention those are Volts that can get by with a *trickle* charge and it appears to be a GM lot. Looks like that station would charge four cars. Do you know what the output capacity and expectations of charge would be with that setup? How is that going to play out in say Seattle or Portland, OR?

Again, I'm not sure you understand on how big a solar footprint you'd need to satisfy your 'going to the beach and have my car charged for free' scenario.

Just to be clear, I'm not opposed to either EV or solar, I run a decent solar array on my RV and I know what it takes just to operate a domestic sized refrigerator every day, let alone a car. It is neither trivial in size nor cost.

It's possible to power entire homes with solar arrays, not just a refrigerator. Open up to ALL the possibilities. Who cares about how it happens, the point is that it must happen, don't look back.

 

[Oilbrnr]

It's possible to power entire homes with solar arrays, not just a refrigerator. Open up to ALL the possibilities. Who cares about how it happens, the point is that it must happen, don't look back.

You are oversimplifying the situation, but that is fine. You're obviously in the tank for Tesla's, which again I do like. Just trying to be a bit more realistic about how a decent shift (say 100+ million) EV vehicles would be powered given the agenda to kill coal and gas generation. That is over 60% currently...

 

[dyt1983]

I don't know what that means. I'm pretty sure BMW are still BMW drivers. Tesla drivers are not BMW drivers. I don't see what's wrong with Google cars, they are trying to do something positive for transportation which is a huge problem. You don't have to like it, but don't dismiss the importance of Google/Tesla and the impact they will have on our planet.

If you don't know what it means, maybe you shouldn't comment. Because I didn't dismiss the importance or impact. If you'd read further (or could comprehend it), you'd understand I have experience with driving plug-in vehicles.

My reference had nothing to do with the cars even being electric or self-driving, just that being a discourteous driver knows no bounds.
[doublepost=1459816812][/doublepost]

It's possible to power entire homes with solar arrays, not just a refrigerator. Open up to ALL the possibilities. Who cares about how it happens, the point is that it must happen, don't look back.

I'm just wondering, do you have a solar array on your roof? I have one on the roof of a house near Silicon Valley, it covers nearly all of the southern facing part (it has a peaked roof) and it generates enough to offset one "tank" of a lower end Tesla every 3-4 days. It's been worse this year due to it actually raining, but usually winter only degrades performance 15-20%. I also have a larger array at a house in NV, where it offsets the AC and lighting but not fully. When I was commuting more that wouldn't quite have kept my tank full. But now it offsets one car. If we had two EVs there, I don't think the house's circuit would handle it, thus another expense. There are a lot of posters insinuating, or even directly claiming that people manufacture resistance to EVs. But the reality from someone who's jumped through a lot of hoops, it's not that easy for some. (I'd say over half the people I know live in a dense urban setting where there's no way they can charge their EVs. People who live in cities often don't have garages, they just park on the street every night.)
[doublepost=1459817007][/doublepost]

Purchasing a family car is a big investment for most people, and they are looking at getting vehicles that cover as much of their anticipated needs as possible, and for a family sedan some needs may be viewed as must haves unless their is a compelling reason to not meet them.

Don't overlook that since a large percentage (maybe most?) people live in dense urban environments, they often don't have space for more than one vehicle, or don't have need for more than one. This also affects being able to charge it "at home" when one doesn't have a garage, and an extension cord will take days to fill it up.

 

[smacrumon]

If you don't know what it means, maybe you shouldn't comment. Because I didn't dismiss the importance or impact. If you'd read further (or could comprehend it), you'd understand I have experience with driving plug-in vehicles.

My reference had nothing to do with the cars even being electric or self-driving, just that being a discourteous driver knows no bounds.
[doublepost=1459816812][/doublepost]

I'm just wondering, do you have a solar array on your roof? I have one on the roof of a house near Silicon Valley, it covers nearly all of the southern facing part (it has a peaked roof) and it generates enough to offset one "tank" of a lower end Tesla every 3-4 days. It's been worse this year due to it actually raining, but usually winter only degrades performance 15-20%. I also have a larger array at a house in NV, where it offsets the AC and lighting but not fully. When I was commuting more that wouldn't quite have kept my tank full. But now it offsets one car. If we had two EVs there, I don't think the house's circuit would handle it, thus another expense. There are a lot of posters insinuating, or even directly claiming that people manufacture resistance to EVs. But the reality from someone who's jumped through a lot of hoops, it's not that easy for some. (I'd say over half the people I know live in a dense urban setting where there's no way they can charge their EVs. People who live in cities often don't have garages, they just park on the street every night.)
[doublepost=1459817007][/doublepost]

Don't overlook that since a large percentage (maybe most?) people live in dense urban environments, they often don't have space for more than one vehicle, or don't have need for more than one. This also affects being able to charge it "at home" when one doesn't have a garage, and an extension cord will take days to fill it up.

Ha. Better get that extension cord... Wow, great job at building up false barriers to the world of EVs. Maybe just a little objectivity in your answer next time? Get used to it, EVs are here now, catch a ride in one sometime

 

[theluggage]

I don't know about $60, but there have been a lot of people leasing i3's for around $120/month.

Not sure whether that's a US thing (I'm in the UK) and/or you have to be a black belt Ninja bargain hunter to track those down. If I had to spend a week haggling with car dealers I'd need £10k worth of rehab to recover...

Certainly $60/mo would be an end-of-argument price (even I spend that much on petrol) and $120/mo would certainly be interesting. I've never heard of anything like those rates over here. Last time I looked at BMW leasing was a few years ago (when personal leasing - as opposed to business leasing which has tax/accounting advantages - was a new thing) and it was basically a BMW lock-in strategy whereby you lost out big time if you didn't take a new car from them every 2 years (you could tell that by the way the dealer wanted to sell me a leasing package rather than relieve me of the wad of cash I was waving at him).

 

[smacrumon]

You are oversimplifying the situation, but that is fine. You're obviously in the tank for Tesla's, which again I do like. Just trying to be a bit more realistic about how a decent shift (say 100+ million) EV vehicles would be powered given the agenda to kill coal and gas generation. That is over 60% currently...

It's even more basic than that, I'm in motion to a better future. Catch an EV ride sometime too.

 

[Gudi]

Solar powered charging - good for people who drive at night and park during the day.

 

[smacrumon]

Solar powered charging - good for people who drive at night and park during the day.

Or drive to work in the morning and park during the day.

 

[s2mikey]

Purchasing a family car is a big investment for most people, and they are looking at getting vehicles that cover as much of their anticipated needs as possible, and for a family sedan some needs may be viewed as must haves unless their is a compelling reason to not meet them. When they can buy a car for the same price that does more, in their view, than another they are likely to chose it, since the main cost they see is purchase price or monthly payments. They are not looking at the TOC. It may be oration but it is the decision making process many employ. In addition, loss aversion may play a role as well. People are much more adverse to a loss than a gain, and may see the inability to do a long trip and the added expense of renting a car to do so as a loss, which will weigh more heavily than any gains from owning an EV. It doesn't have to make sense but ultimately if that is what drives decision making then that is what must be overcome to promote greater EV use.

One area I am curious about is how fast the Tesla's battery loses capacity over time and what capacity must degrade to for Tesla to consider it a warranty issue vs normal behavior and thus not a warranty issue. That has implications for resale value as well as the spacing of charging stations since those with range of a 100% battery may be too far apart for an 80% one.

Absolutely correct - these battery powered cars have a LOT of unanswered questions regarding longevity, ACTUAL costs, ACTUAL range for normal use, and plenty of other stuff. What about charging stations? Do your friends and relatives all have them ready to go should you be visiting for a while after a longer trip? Im just not sold quite yet. Its great that Tesla finally has come out with a model that NON-celebrities can afford. But, the same questions and concerns remain. Meanwhile, families and working people can buy/lease perfectly good, fuel-efficient gasoline-powered cars at affordable prices and they know exactly what they are getting and how to deal with it. Cars last a long time now if taken care of which has also gotten simpler with long oil change intervals, parts lasting longer, etc, etc.

Lets not forget too that charging the car uses electricity whcih has a cost and an impact on the environment(if you believe all that...Im not sold on climate change but whatever). That seems to get lost in these discussions too.

Still - choices are always GOOD for the consumer. We shall see how this shakes out.

 

[jlc1978]

Or drive to work in the morning and park during the day.

Someday probably but not now. However, parking decks have the potential to have a solar array built on the upper deck to run charging stations throughout the deck, so such an option is certainly viable in the future.

I think the progression will be from ICE to Hybrid to EV. Right now, hybrids offer some of the advantages of both designs while addressing some of the shortcomings. People constant adopting behaviors that re more suite dot EV use as hybrid's become more affordable and have ranges greater than a handful of miles.

 

[smacrumon]

Someday probably but not now. However, parking decks have the potential to have a solar array built on the upper deck to run charging stations throughout the deck, so such an option is certainly viable in the future.

I think the progression will be from ICE to Hybrid to EV. Right now, hybrids offer some of the advantages of both designs while addressing some of the shortcomings. People constant adopting behaviors that re more suite dot EV use as hybrid's become more affordable and have ranges greater than a handful of miles.

Please move to the side, Electric Vehicle coming through. EV isn't on its way, EV is here and now.

Hybrid is last decade, we've moved on completely to Electric Vehicles. The Tesla Model 3 has made EV affordable and available to everyone. ICE and Hybrid technologies are dead on arrival, EV is what consumers should jump to for savings of the environment and the hip pocket.

No offence, but if you're not thinking forward, don't even bother thinking at all.
[doublepost=1459864505][/doublepost]

Absolutely correct - these battery powered cars have a LOT of unanswered questions regarding longevity, ACTUAL costs, ACTUAL range for normal use, and plenty of other stuff. What about charging stations? Do your friends and relatives all have them ready to go should you be visiting for a while after a longer trip? Im just not sold quite yet. Its great that Tesla finally has come out with a model that NON-celebrities can afford. But, the same questions and concerns remain. Meanwhile, families and working people can buy/lease perfectly good, fuel-efficient gasoline-powered cars at affordable prices and they know exactly what they are getting and how to deal with it. Cars last a long time now if taken care of which has also gotten simpler with long oil change intervals, parts lasting longer, etc, etc.

Lets not forget too that charging the car uses electricity whcih has a cost and an impact on the environment(if you believe all that...Im not sold on climate change but whatever). That seems to get lost in these discussions too.

Still - choices are always GOOD for the consumer. We shall see how this shakes out.

So much of what you have written is not accurate. The ACTUAL cost and damage by old car internal combustion engine technology to the environment and people's health is known and it's not good.

Please move to the side, Electric Vehicle coming through. EV isn't on its way, EV is here and now. It is better on all accounts.

Hybrid is last decade, we've moved on completely to Electric Vehicles. The Tesla Model 3 has made EV affordable and available to everyone. ICE and Hybrid technologies are dead on arrival, EV is what consumers should jump to for savings of the environment and their hip pocket.

No offence, but if you're not thinking forward, don't even bother thinking at all.

 

[s2mikey]

Please move to the side, Electric Vehicle coming through. EV isn't on its way, EV is here and now.

Hybrid is last decade, we've moved on completely to Electric Vehicles. The Tesla Model 3 has made EV affordable and available to everyone. ICE and Hybrid technologies are dead on arrival, EV is what consumers should jump to for savings of the environment and the hip pocket.

No offence, but if you're not thinking forward, don't even bother thinking at all.
[doublepost=1459864505][/doublepost]
So much of what you have written is not accurate. The ACTUAL cost and damage by old car internal combustion engine technology to the environment and people's health is known and it's not good.

Please move to the side, Electric Vehicle coming through. EV isn't on its way, EV is here and now. It is better on all accounts.

Hybrid is last decade, we've moved on completely to Electric Vehicles. The Tesla Model 3 has made EV affordable and available to everyone. ICE and Hybrid technologies are dead on arrival, EV is what consumers should jump to for savings of the environment and their hip pocket.

No offence, but if you're not thinking forward, don't even bother thinking at all.

Wel, Im thinking realistically which is what most people do. Your particular use case might fully support EV's. Not everyone elses do though. Cant just blanket the entire nation into one vehicle use case. You know better than this. How we gonna move goods from state to state or whereever? Electric 18 wheelers? With about 500 batteries to power them. Good Luck with that. Its a rolling hydrogen bomb too. Bad idea. What about contractors and other jobs where a tiny EV simply wont cut it? There are plenty of cases where an EV wont cut it.

Sure - old clunkers that are out of tune spew junk into the air. We all get that. But modern cars burn quite clean. There arent that many junkers on the road as an overall percentage of vehicles out there.

Maybe some of us LIKE our V8 sedans and sports cars with gas engines? There is such a thing as personal preference here too. Ya ever driven a powerful BMW or Audi? Ya ever drive or ride on an exotic/sports car? Cant replicate it with batteries

Consumers may or may not save with an EV. As many of us have stated - the jury is out for longevity with these things. Whats the battery lifespan? How long is the warranty? You might save on gas costs, sure, but if that battery needs replacing and its out of warranty you may have just negated all of the fuel savings due to the super high cost of replacement. You have to think about this stuff.

This EV "group hug / Kumbaya" stuff is all feely-good but its not reslistic for everyone and many questions remain. Those are the facts.

 

[EdT]

Yes but those are in any car. But you'd still have lesser costs with fixing it with the other stuff.

I'm wondering how much an entire new battery would cost though when that gives out.

I realize it's not exactly the same thing, but when I bought a Prius in 2004 lots of people warned me I was going to have battery problems and that replacing it would be "expensive". It's now 2016, I have over 200,000 miles on the car, and I still haven't found out how "expensive" changing the battery would be.

 

[jlc1978]

Please move to the side, Electric Vehicle coming through. EV isn't on its way, EV is here and now.

Sorry, but a few hundred K or so EV's is hardly here and now. Tesla sold what, 50k cars last year? That's not even a blip on the total cars sold in a month by the major manufacturers. While they are part of the future they have a long way to go before they are mainstream. Even then, some of the things that make them attractive now, such as tax breaks and HOV lane usage will start to go away as they proliferate, changing some of the economics of ownership.

Hybrid is last decade, we've moved on completely to Electric Vehicles. The Tesla Model 3 has made EV affordable and available to everyone. ICE and Hybrid technologies are dead on arrival, EV is what consumers should jump to for savings of the environment and the hip pocket.

The model 3 hasn't even shipped, and Tesla is having issues hitting the production numbers for the X right now so there is no assurance it will ship on time either. OTOH, mainstream manufacturers are increasing the use of hybrids across their lines so the next decade is more likely to be the hybrid decade rather than the EV decade.

No offence, but if you're not thinking forward, don't even bother thinking at all.

Really? You'r responses so far have been reasonable so an ad-hominem attack seems beneath you.

I get you've bought into EVs. I like them and think they are the future as well, not just in sedans but in high performance vehicles as well; but recognize there are still significant barriers to large scale adoption.

If you can't take a reasonable discussion of the issues with EVs in their current form with resorting to snarky comments and accept not everyone thinks the same way you do perhaps a break is in order?

 

[Gudi]

Or drive to work in the morning and park during the day.

Maybe if you work at Tesla.

 

[jlc1978]

The ACTUAL cost and damage by old car internal combustion engine technology to the environment and people's health is known and it's not good.

Please move to the side, Electric Vehicle coming through. EV isn't on its way, EV is here and now. It is better on all accounts.

While I agree there are many well known damaging affects from ICE technology; I would not go as far as to say EV's are better on all accounts. You still need to manufacturer them, provide electricity via power plants or solar arrays, all of which have non-negligible environmental impact. As for the technology itself, some of the impact are not yet known. Lithium Ion have hazards of their own, from explosion / combustion from excessive off gassing to the health effects of the off gassing from normal use, as an example.

While I agree ether are probably better overall than ICE, they are not the great green savior either; as we trade off environmental impact for convenience as part of an industrial society.

 

[dyt1983]

Ha. Better get that extension cord... Wow, great job at building up false barriers to the world of EVs. Maybe just a little objectivity in your answer next time? Get used to it, EVs are here now, catch a ride in one sometime

Um, I already drove one of mine today (I also have reservations for two Model 3s). I can see you're not really good with the reading comprehension. You didn't even bother answering the question about if you have a solar array on your roof or have any experience with the technology you insist everyone should use. I can see where further discussion with you is unproductive.

People (such as yourself) who talk about other's "false barriers" without even trying to understand other people's situations are what make me want to root for sides I would otherwise not support. I'll probably smile driving an AMG later.
[doublepost=1459873016][/doublepost]

I realize it's not exactly the same thing, but when I bought a Prius in 2004 lots of people warned me I was going to have battery problems and that replacing it would be "expensive". It's now 2016, I have over 200,000 miles on the car, and I still haven't found out how "expensive" changing the battery would be.

That's fine anecdotal evidence that not everyone will experience an expensive battery change. Another anecdote is that two of my friends, each with a different model Prius, have had battery failures out of warranty that require an expensive battery change. One of those two hasn't replaced the battery so it's been sitting at his house for over a year. But he did replace it with a Tesla. If any Tesla owner's battery is going need replacing after 8 years, it will be him, so I'll see how that unravels later. I've had some battery degradation in some of my cars but it's more due to lack of use than overuse, but the repair costs will still be there if they fail.

 

[smacrumon]

Wel, Im thinking realistically which is what most people do. Your particular use case might fully support EV's. Not everyone elses do though. Cant just blanket the entire nation into one vehicle use case. You know better than this. How we gonna move goods from state to state or whereever? Electric 18 wheelers? With about 500 batteries to power them. Good Luck with that. Its a rolling hydrogen bomb too. Bad idea. What about contractors and other jobs where a tiny EV simply wont cut it? There are plenty of cases where an EV wont cut it.

Sure - old clunkers that are out of tune spew junk into the air. We all get that. But modern cars burn quite clean. There arent that many junkers on the road as an overall percentage of vehicles out there.

Maybe some of us LIKE our V8 sedans and sports cars with gas engines? There is such a thing as personal preference here too. Ya ever driven a powerful BMW or Audi? Ya ever drive or ride on an exotic/sports car? Cant replicate it with batteries

Consumers may or may not save with an EV. As many of us have stated - the jury is out for longevity with these things. Whats the battery lifespan? How long is the warranty? You might save on gas costs, sure, but if that battery needs replacing and its out of warranty you may have just negated all of the fuel savings due to the super high cost of replacement. You have to think about this stuff.

This EV "group hug / Kumbaya" stuff is all feely-good but its not reslistic for everyone and many questions remain. Those are the facts.

Your reply is filled with inaccuracies. You don't know fact from fiction. Maybe you haven't even read up or watched anything on Tesla Motors?

Electric 18 wheelers may very well be a possibility in the future, don't discount that. It would be a lot better than all those diesel and petrol bombs on the road to tap into your hyperbole. Electric Vehicles today prove that they are more powerful than traditional vehicles.

Modern gas diesel petrol cars don't burn clean, they are still pumping out toxic rubbish that we breathe into our lungs every day.

If you're into performance vehicles, then you might actually be interested at looking at Tesla. The Model S and X outperform your typical V8. Search "Tesla Insane Mode" and "Tesla Ludicrous Mode". Tesla is setting the new standard for power.

Consumers save with EV. That's it, it's not disputable. Tesla come with 4 and 8 year warranty. When was the last time you got that with a gas guzzler?

Again, either open the door to an EV, or move aside please.
[doublepost=1459876392][/doublepost]

While I agree there are many well known damaging affects from ICE technology; I would not go as far as to say EV's are better on all accounts. You still need to manufacturer them, provide electricity via power plants or solar arrays, all of which have non-negligible environmental impact. As for the technology itself, some of the impact are not yet known. Lithium Ion have hazards of their own, from explosion / combustion from excessive off gassing to the health effects of the off gassing from normal use, as an example.

While I agree ether are probably better overall than ICE, they are not the great green savior either; as we trade off environmental impact for convenience as part of an industrial society.

The move to EV is much much much better than ICE.
[doublepost=1459876555][/doublepost]

Um, I already drove one of mine today (I also have reservations for two Model 3s). I can see you're not really good with the reading comprehension. You didn't even bother answering the question about if you have a solar array on your roof or have any experience with the technology you insist everyone should use. I can see where further discussion with you is unproductive.

People (such as yourself) who talk about other's "false barriers" without even trying to understand other people's situations are what make me want to root for sides I would otherwise not support. I'll probably smile driving an AMG later.
[doublepost=1459873016][/doublepost]

That's fine anecdotal evidence that not everyone will experience an expensive battery change. Another anecdote is that two of my friends, each with a different model Prius, have had battery failures out of warranty that require an expensive battery change. One of those two hasn't replaced the battery so it's been sitting at his house for over a year. But he did replace it with a Tesla. If any Tesla owner's battery is going need replacing after 8 years, it will be him, so I'll see how that unravels later. I've had some battery degradation in some of my cars but it's more due to lack of use than overuse, but the repair costs will still be there if they fail.

[doublepost=1459876727][/doublepost]

Sorry, but a few hundred K or so EV's is hardly here and now. Tesla sold what, 50k cars last year? That's not even a blip on the total cars sold in a month by the major manufacturers. While they are part of the future they have a long way to go before they are mainstream. Even then, some of the things that make them attractive now, such as tax breaks and HOV lane usage will start to go away as they proliferate, changing some of the economics of ownership.



The model 3 hasn't even shipped, and Tesla is having issues hitting the production numbers for the X right now so there is no assurance it will ship on time either. OTOH, mainstream manufacturers are increasing the use of hybrids across their lines so the next decade is more likely to be the hybrid decade rather than the EV decade.



Really? You'r responses so far have been reasonable so an ad-hominem attack seems beneath you.

I get you've bought into EVs. I like them and think they are the future as well, not just in sedans but in high performance vehicles as well; but recognize there are still significant barriers to large scale adoption.

If you can't take a reasonable discussion of the issues with EVs in their current form with resorting to snarky comments and accept not everyone thinks the same way you do perhaps a break is in order?

Tesla have close to 300,000 order reservations for Model 3 in less than one week. I say that's a vote of confidence for EV.
[doublepost=1459876796][/doublepost]

Um, I already drove one of mine today (I also have reservations for two Model 3s). I can see you're not really good with the reading comprehension. You didn't even bother answering the question about if you have a solar array on your roof or have any experience with the technology you insist everyone should use. I can see where further discussion with you is unproductive.

People (such as yourself) who talk about other's "false barriers" without even trying to understand other people's situations are what make me want to root for sides I would otherwise not support. I'll probably smile driving an AMG later.
[doublepost=1459873016][/doublepost]

That's fine anecdotal evidence that not everyone will experience an expensive battery change. Another anecdote is that two of my friends, each with a different model Prius, have had battery failures out of warranty that require an expensive battery change. One of those two hasn't replaced the battery so it's been sitting at his house for over a year. But he did replace it with a Tesla. If any Tesla owner's battery is going need replacing after 8 years, it will be him, so I'll see how that unravels later. I've had some battery degradation in some of my cars but it's more due to lack of use than overuse, but the repair costs will still be there if they fail.

This is the problem how many cars do you need to get from A to B?

 

[EdT]

Um, I already drove one of mine today (I also have reservations for two Model 3s). I can see you're not really good with the reading comprehension. You didn't even bother answering the question about if you have a solar array on your roof or have any experience with the technology you insist everyone should use. I can see where further discussion with you is unproductive.

People (such as yourself) who talk about other's "false barriers" without even trying to understand other people's situations are what make
That's fine anecdotal evidence that not everyone will experience an expensive battery change. Another anecdote is that two of my friends, each with a different model Prius, have had battery failures out of warranty that require an expensive battery change. One of those two hasn't replaced the battery so it's been sitting at his house for over a year. But he did replace it with a Tesla. If any Tesla owner's battery is going need replacing after 8 years, it will be him, so I'll see how that unravels later. I've had some battery degradation in some of my cars but it's more due to lack of use than overuse, but the repair costs will still be there if they fail.

Not the same as a study, but I have 3 family members that a have Prius. 2 are 2005 and the other a 2006. None of them are close in mileage to mine, but all are out of warranty.

Googling Prius battery failure gets you a lot of chat sites but few actual studies. There was a 2013 WSJ article that had numbers but I couldn't link to it using my iPhone. The search term I used was failure rate of prius batteries

Um, I already drove one of mine today (I also have reservations for two Model 3s). I can see you're not really good with the reading comprehension. You didn't even bother answering the question about if you have a solar array on your roof or have any experience with the technology you insist everyone should use. I can see where further discussion with you is unproductive.

People (such as yourself) who talk about other's "false barriers" without even trying to understand other people's situations are what make me want to root for sides I would otherwise not support. I'll probably smile driving an AMG later.
[doublepost=1459873016][/doublepost]

That's fine anecdotal evidence that not everyone will experience an expensive battery change. Another anecdote is that two of my friends, each with a different model Prius, have had battery failures out of warranty that require an expensive battery change. One of those two hasn't replaced the battery so it's been sitting at his house for over a year. But he did replace it with a Tesla. If any Tesla owner's battery is going need replacing after 8 years, it will be him, so I'll see how that unravels later. I've had some battery degradation in some of my cars but it's more due to lack of use than overuse, but the repair costs will still be there if they fail.

There is a WSJ article from 2013 that says failure rate for Prius cars is close to zero. I can't find a site that gives actual percentages, but doing the search, which includes car buying sites, says the failure rate and risks are low. I have 3 Prius cars in my family and friends with 3 more, ranging from 2005 to 2010. No failures. That, combined with searches that say battery life is not a problem say that it's your friends experiences which are the outliers, not mine. Google it yourself v

 

[jlc1978]

Tesla have close to 300,000 order reservations for Model 3 in less than one week. I say that's a vote of confidence for EV.

While that is good for Tesla, it still remains to be seen how many Tesla will actually deliver by 2020 and how many of those deposits get refunded. right now, an EV is a novelty that appeals to a rather narrow slice of the car market. But even 300K over 2 or 3 years is a drop in the bucket; what remains to be seen is the demand after the early adopters get theirs. A real vote of confidence for EVs is when the major manufacturers stop making them as mere curiosities and they become a regular fixture on showroom floors. Right now, manufacturers are focused on hybrids, which is good because it helps get the technology out their in a variety of vehicles and as manufacturers learn from that experience they will transfer that knowledge eventually to any EVs they build. EVS will get there, but I don't think it will be this decade.
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This is the problem how many cars do you need to get from A to B?

The required number to ensure I get to A-B depends being able satisfy my desire relative to how fast, how much fun, what I am hauling and what I plan to do when I get there.

 

[Sonmi451]

Not sure whether that's a US thing (I'm in the UK) and/or you have to be a black belt Ninja bargain hunter to track those down. If I had to spend a week haggling with car dealers I'd need £10k worth of rehab to recover...

Certainly $60/mo would be an end-of-argument price (even I spend that much on petrol) and $120/mo would certainly be interesting. I've never heard of anything like those rates over here. Last time I looked at BMW leasing was a few years ago (when personal leasing - as opposed to business leasing which has tax/accounting advantages - was a new thing) and it was basically a BMW lock-in strategy whereby you lost out big time if you didn't take a new car from them every 2 years (you could tell that by the way the dealer wanted to sell me a leasing package rather than relieve me of the wad of cash I was waving at him).

Yeah $60 is nuts, I would get one right now for that. $120 is also good, and I may still do that soon for one of my leases that is up soon. Remember the US has different rebates and tax credits so even state by state prices are going to be very different let alone another country.

 

[Tummy]

While you're waiting for the Model 3, California residents can lease a Ford Focus Electric for Free.

http://leasehackr.com/blog/2016/3/27/californians-lease-a-ford-focus-electric-for-free

 

[Sonmi451]

If you don't know what it means, maybe you shouldn't comment. Because I didn't dismiss the importance or impact. If you'd read further (or could comprehend it), you'd understand I have experience with driving plug-in vehicles.

My reference had nothing to do with the cars even being electric or self-driving, just that being a discourteous driver knows no bounds.

So now you get to tell people when to comment? Your rambling post didn't make sense. Just because you have a Prius plug in doesn't mean you have any insight into the Tesla culture. Because you a Model S cut you off one time doesn't mean they're all dbags. Do you also tend to correct other's grammar and spelling?

 

[Tummy]

Yeah $60 is nuts, I would get one right now for that. $120 is also good, and I may still do that soon for one of my leases that is up soon. Remember the US has different rebates and tax credits so even state by state prices are going to be very different let alone another country.

I don't think you'll find those deals in the UK. I got my deal due to several tax incentives and negotiation, but the negotiation only took an afternoon and was all through email and a 10 minute phone call to verify information.

There is a very active BMW i3 Facebook group with over 7,000 members here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/BMWi3/

And an active Tesla Model 3 group with over 2,000 members:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/354816398029559