The 2009 (Gainestown) Mac Pro: Everything We Know

[nanofrog]

And pick only the best chips too. That's another reason for the high price.

Absolutely. And of course, the smaller quantities sold doesn't help either.

I didn't bother to mention "grading", as I figured you already knew. Seems I was correct.

Just.. a long shot here.. not really too sure about this..

But would there be any way to just buy the processors and a board and cram it in the current model somehow.. maybe I'm dreaming.

I don't think I could work on a lower spec machine to be honest, it's 3.2 or nothing for me. So what I'm guessing is the 2x 3.2 machine is going to be fast enough to last me until 2010. or atleast I hope

2x 3.2 16gig RAM , 2x 8800 GT's for cintiq/ACD 30" .. I mean , that's not a bad set up right? It's not as if when the new one comes out it will run "too" far behind, right? am I right? And people will still be buying refurbs of my machine then too, I'm assuming

If you add in another board and CPU, you'd then have a Hackintosh (assuming it isn't an Apple part). Either way, the PSU cabling would likely be a problem. Then there's the actual case to consider. The current model almost certainly couldn't hold the new parts, given the layout of the new boards, and associated coolers, RAM locations, etc. So not really feasible.

It seems that you have run out of time. If you can't use what you have, and can't use a lesser machine, you really don't have a choice.

 

[NoNameBrand]

Exists. There is no such thing as future-proofing.

Future-proofing? No.
Your question seemed to imply why a mobo maker would put a 32x PCIe slot in, not why a consumer (person or enterprise) would buy such a thing. The former is part of a chicken and egg problem - if no computer has 32x PCIe, no card maker is going to make a 32x PCIe card. The compliment is true as well, so something's got to give or there's no progress. Obviously people planning the 32x PCIe slot have been talking to people who might make 32x PCIe cards.

An analogy: The SATA-IO trade consortium plans for SATA to scale to 12Gb/s. It started at 1.5Gb/s, has now hit 3Gb/s, and 6Gb/s was ratified last August. Are there 6Gb/s disks? no. Were there 3Gb/s disks when that came out? no.

 

[Tallest Skil]

You're right, of course. But does anything out now come close to even 16x? I'm not questioning the point of the slot anymore, I'm just curious about the application.

An analogy: The SATA-IO trade consortium plans for SATA to scale to 12Gb/s. It started at 1.5Gb/s, has now hit 3Gb/s, and 6Gb/s was ratified last August. Are there 6Gb/s disks? no. Were there 3Gb/s disks when that came out? no.

Well, there certainly need to be... non-SSD HDD speeds are the last major bottleneck in computer performance (and ODD speeds...).

 

[m1stake]

In the mean time.. tell me straight, do you think a 2x 3.2 system will hold me until 2010 if I pamper it and feed it lots of ram chips.

Yes I do, but I think it's fairly clear that 32GB of memory won't give you a huge boost. 8GB is a minimum IMO, most of these range from 10-14. Apple's consultant should be able to help you figure out what you need.

 

[vogelhausdesign]

^I get a discount that is only $250 more than a refurb. for the same system , minus the second optical drive which I wont need.

So I'm going to buy new. Who knows, I may wait until 2010 to buy my next machine if this holds through which I'm sure I can make happen.

Standard procedure, maybe not, professional Curtice, yes. The account managers don't want to have a meeting with a client inside a crowded apple store with teenagers blasting Miley Cirus on the in store speakers, and moms buying asking qustions about base macbook for "billy's off to college tear fest"

I've never had a meeting that took place inside the retail store.

 

[Setmose]

^I get a discount that is only $250 more than a refurb. for the same system , minus the second optical drive which I wont need.

So I'm going to buy new. Who knows, I may wait until 2010 to buy my next machine if this holds through which I'm sure I can make happen.

Standard procedure, maybe not, professional Curtice, yes. The account managers don't want to have a meeting with a client inside a crowded apple store with teenagers blasting Miley Cirus on the in store speakers, and moms buying asking qustions about base macbook for "billy's off to college tear fest"

I've never had a meeting that took place inside the retail store.

If you are adding this new machine to a group of machines you are already running, that kind of dilutes the issue of delta in performance for the additional machine.

I think an "enthusiast" should probably wait for what will be an undetermined period, but since you are a business, go with the sure thing now. Business clients want schedule dependability from a service bureau.

 

[Umbongo]

^I get a discount that is only $250 more than a refurb. for the same system , minus the second optical drive which I wont need.

So I'm going to buy new. Who knows, I may wait until 2010 to buy my next machine if this holds through which I'm sure I can make happen.

Standard procedure, maybe not, professional Curtice, yes. The account managers don't want to have a meeting with a client inside a crowded apple store with teenagers blasting Miley Cirus on the in store speakers, and moms buying asking qustions about base macbook for "billy's off to college tear fest"

I've never had a meeting that took place inside the retail store.

Just make sure you come back and make your "why was I thinking about wating, this machine is so fast" post

 

[8CoreWhore]

Can someone speak to how the current MP's may or may not be up to task for HD video editing/encoding/transcoding, etc - for pros - and what the new MP would have to have to be an effective solution for pros for the next few years? Not all HD is created equally...

 

[nanofrog]

Can someone speak to how the current MP's may or may not be up to task for HD video editing/encoding/transcoding, etc - for pros - and what the new MP would have to have to be an effective solution for pros for the next few years? Not all HD is created equally...

The current model works well as I understand it.

But here's where all the buzz comes in. It's expected the next MP will sell at the $2999 mark. That's only a $200 increase from the current model. Going by the Bloomfield/Core i7 part reviews, the performance gain is fairly substantial, particularly with anything that needs heavy memory access (no more FSB). So the cost seems worth it, provided you have the ability to wait.

There's a few threads on this already, and plenty to be found searching google.

Take a look at this chart from Tom's Hardware. It should give you some idea.

 

[TennisandMusic]

The current model works well as I understand it.

But here's where all the buzz comes in. It's expected the next MP will sell at the $2999 mark. That's only a $200 increase from the current model. Going by the Bloomfield/Core i7 part reviews, the performance gain is fairly substantial, particularly with anything that needs heavy memory access (no more FSB). So the cost seems worth it, provided you have the ability to wait.

There's a few threads on this already, and plenty to be found searching google.

Take a look at this chart from Tom's Hardware. It should give you some idea.

Some good improvements, but it looks like real world improvement will average out to around 20% at a cursory glance. Obviously for some things its higher, such as CG, but some things are always totally even. Now that I'm sure the macosrumors stuff is false, I'm not sure if I want to wait for the more expensive version.

 

[mpshay]

I just read the following Mac world article:
eight-core Xeon

It's talking about 8 core Xeon chips being discussed in a Feb 9th Intel presentation. A 16 core Mac Pro? Wow.

 

[Tallest Skil]

I just read the following Mac world article:
eight-core Xeon

It's talking about 8 core Xeon chips being discussed in a Feb 9th Intel presentation. A 16 core Mac Pro? Wow.

No, that's Beckton, not Gainestown. There are no 8-core-per-chip Gainestowns.

 

[BenRoethig]

No, that's Beckton, not Gainestown. There are no 8-core-per-chip Gainestowns.

That we know of.

 

[Tallest Skil]

That we know of.

If Intel has managed to hide them, seeing as we've seen Intel documents showing the entire Gainestown line as we know it, I'll be very surprised.

And then buy one.

 

[nanofrog]

Some good improvements, but it looks like real world improvement will average out to around 20% at a cursory glance. Obviously for some things its higher, such as CG, but some things are always totally even. Now that I'm sure the macosrumors stuff is false, I'm not sure if I want to wait for the more expensive version.

20% sounds about right for most applications (provided I didn't goof the math) , and coincides with other estimates I've seen in online articles. Memory intensive (server) use, should be another story. Predictions have varied, and I've seen estimates of 50% in this case. I've been waiting for more information to release, to see what happens on more mature boards.

But still, if someones uses would only be able to use the 20%, $200 isn't terrible, particularly for the cost of the MP (thinking in terms of % of cost increase). If we were talking about low end desktops, that might be another story.

 

[RC24]

Soo.. based on what we know now... any idea when the update could be?

 

[robinp]

20% sounds about right for most applications (provided I didn't goof the math) , and coincides with other estimates I've seen in online articles. Memory intensive (server) use, should be another story. Predictions have varied, and I've seen estimates of 50% in this case. I've been waiting for more information to release, to see what happens on more mature boards.

But still, if someones uses would only be able to use the 20%, $200 isn't terrible, particularly for the cost of the MP (thinking in terms of % of cost increase). If we were talking about low end desktops, that might be another story.

3D rendering is about 40% quicker from the reviews I've seen

 

[Tallest Skil]

Soo.. based on what we know now... any idea when the update could be?

The W5580 is showing up in some stores now. Assuming that you can actually BUY it now, update in March.

The official launch of the 5500 series is supposedly March... or something, I don't know. If THAT is the case, update in June at WWDC (518 days conspiracy!).

 

[TennisandMusic]

20% sounds about right for most applications (provided I didn't goof the math) , and coincides with other estimates I've seen in online articles. Memory intensive (server) use, should be another story. Predictions have varied, and I've seen estimates of 50% in this case. I've been waiting for more information to release, to see what happens on more mature boards.

But still, if someones uses would only be able to use the 20%, $200 isn't terrible, particularly for the cost of the MP (thinking in terms of % of cost increase). If we were talking about low end desktops, that might be another story.

But when you factor in the price of additional ram, the price difference there is like 400% more, roughly. Maybe it was more.

 

[nanofrog]

3D rendering is about 40% quicker from the reviews I've seen

I've been interested in the server/workstation side. I'm not into video/graphics editing.

Mature boards would help nail down some final numbers though. What few bits I found on the DP parts happened awhile ago, and I doubt those boards would be the version that they ship.

I want my board reviews, turkeys! Out with it!
//Grr... OK, end of rant.

The W5580 is showing up in some stores now. Assuming that you can actually BUY it now, update in March.

Some of the sites I looked at claimed stock, others didn't. So I don't trust this as an indication of parts in the supply side. Intel would however:
1. Make SKU's available before they ship.
2. Time the shipping and formal release. (Or at least attempt to).

 

[nanofrog]

But when you factor in the price of additional ram, the price difference there is like 400% more, roughly. Maybe it was more.

It's not a desktop though, so the additional premium for memory is to be expected on server/workstation systems.

Even so, it still isn't as bad as FB-DIMM when it released.

It will still depend specific needs though. Worse for some, not so terrible for others.

 

[queshy]

Is this what we've been waiting for? http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/29/intel-said-to-be-prepping-eight-core-xeon-for-launch-next-month/

 

[TennisandMusic]

It's not a desktop though, so the additional premium for memory is to be expected on server/workstation systems.

Even so, it still isn't as bad as FB-DIMM when it released.

It will still depend specific needs though. Worse for some, not so terrible for others.

Yeah but the current mac pro is not a "desktop" either. It's so much more expensive because it's ECC DDR3 as opposed to the current ECC DD2. Of course it will go down but we don't know when really. I'm just saying the question of value is still there as a result of the memory prices. If memory prices were identical it would seem almost universally better to wait, unless it was a matter of necessity. Now it's just...going to be much more expensive regardless.

I suppose you could call all of this just a bit of "out-loud" thinking.

 

[robinp]

Is this what we've been waiting for? http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/29/intel-said-to-be-prepping-eight-core-xeon-for-launch-next-month/

I thought the last comment that's currently on the article was interesting:

@ Jan 29th 2009 7:33PM
A Large hardware vendor of mine said the Nehalem EP will be formally released in March and will be available immediately in new products. They will be simply known as the Xeon 5500 series and my understanding is they are going to be all 4 core / 8 thread CPUs.

Somehow I doubt they will have 8 core chips coming out next month as the Xeon 5500 is nothing more than a Core i7 processor with a different name.

I could be totally wrong here, but I am pretty sure this will not be a true 8 core Nehalem EP.

 

[t0mat0]

Just to turn to the pre-ISSC stuff in under a fortnight -
Sunday 8th/Monday 9th - 12th

Where do these articles stand?
http://www.techradar.com/news/compu...socket-nehalem-ep-platform-benchmarked-487131
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/29/intel-said-to-be-prepping-eight-core-xeon-for-launch-next-month/
http://download.intel.com/pressroom/kits/events/idffall_2008/SSmith_briefing_roadmap.pdf
http://www.macworld.com/article/138510/2009/01/intel.html?lsrc=rss_main
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2009/01/coming-out-party-for-nehalem-at-low-key-isscc.ars

So this putative 8-core 16-thread Xeon processor to be announced at the International Solid-State Circuits Conference (ISSC) in San Francisco, what's it's position in the scheme of things? A "Nehalem EP" for 2S and workstations? (linking to the March 3, March 7 Japan and Bejing sessions with ISSCC? )

16 papers this year, 14 last year from their embargoed till Feb 3 2008 press kit. Talked about Tukwila, andSilverthorne amongst other things. Sessions 3.1, 3.2 & 3.3 seem to be the ones from ars.technica article
Might get to hear about Renesas Technology Corp's chip too (they're the world’s biggest manufacturer of microcontrollers apparently, and the processor could make it possible to view full HD video in 30fps on cell phones).