The 2009 (Gainestown) Mac Pro: Everything We Know

[Setmose]

Wait a Minute. Dual-Socket 8-Core Nehalem EP ?!

This looks like something has been injected into the Nehalem line-up that wasn't covered in Wikipedia's chart.

http://www.macworld.com/article/138510/2009/01/intel.html?lsrc=rss_main

"The timing of the presentation suggests the eight-core Xeon processor is likely to be the Nehalem EP processor, an upcoming chip that is designed for dual-socket servers and workstations. This segment of the Xeon line is due for a refresh, and the Nehalem EP processor is scheduled to be released during early 2009."

http://www.techradar.com/news/compu...socket-nehalem-ep-platform-benchmarked-487131

"We got our filthy paws on a fully operational dual-socket Nehalem EP platform for a spot of guerrilla benchmarking. Our test system was trimmed out with a pair of 2.8GHz Nehalem EP chips, likely to be sold as Xeon X5560 CPUs when Nehalem EP launches in the first quarter of 2009.

For the record, the system is based on essentially the same Tylersburg chipset as used with the first "Bloomfield" Core i7 desktop chips. For our testing it was configured with 24GB of 1,066MHz DDR3 memory."

The mix-in of "dual socket" in the first article makes me think that these beasties are essentially an 8-core Gainestown that was never announced.

Check the following source. Macworld missed the second presentation (3.2) in which Intel will present a new Xeon roadmap:

http://www.isscc.org/isscc/2009/advprog.pdf

---------------------------------------------------------

3.1 A 45nm 8-Core Enterprise Xeon® Processor

1:30 PM

S. Rusu, S. Tam, H. Muljono, J. Stinson, D. Ayers, J. Chang, R. Varada, M. Ratta, S. Kottapalli
Intel, Santa Clara, CA

An 8-core 16-thread enterprise Xeon® processor has 2.3B transistors in 9M 45nm CMOS. The I/O links use per-lane TX and RX compensation to enable operation up to 6.4GT/s. Vertical and horizontal spines keep the uncore clock skew under 19ps before engaging the compensation. Core and cache shut-off techniques are used to minimize leakage.

3.2 A Family of 45nm IA Processors

2:00 PM

R. Kumar, G. Hinton
Intel, Hillsboro, OR

A family of next-generation IA processors with up to 8 cores, enhanced Core™ microarchitecture, 3-level caches and 2-way SMT is implemented in 45nm high-κ metal-gate CMOS. The family has a coherent point-to-point link and integrates memory controller, power-management microcontroller and power-gate transistors and scales from sub-10 to 130W in mobile, desktop and server applications.

---------------------------------------------------------

Now I can see an offering of Mac Pros populated with your choice of Quad or Octo. Maybe there is something to the Mac OS Rumors story after all?

Do I sense an Intel/Apple viral-campaign underway? A big splash announcement coming soon?

 

[Umbongo]

Now I can see an offering of Mac Pros populated with your choice of Quad or Octo. Maybe there is something to the Mac OS Rumors story after all?

Do I sense an Intel/Apple viral-campaign underway? A big splash announcement coming soon?

Nah it's just speculation based on a misunderstanding by the Macworld writer.

 

[Tallest Skil]

Did we already cover their second article? It's fairly recent:

As we reported previously, the forthcoming 2009 Mac Pro lineup will be based around powerful new technology from Intel code-named Nehalem; better known through great public anticipation in the lead-up to its release as “Core i7.”

It's called the Xeon 5500 series, idiots. Gainestown, to be precise.

Since then, we’ve had the opportunity to look under the hood of far more recent prototypes and a much clearer picture of the final Mac Pro has begun to emerge.

I'm sure you have...

One of the first questions readers asked after the initial article was posted was whether the Nehalem Mac Pro will employ those standard desktop CPUs... ...or if it will sport Xeon-class i7 chips...

What does that even mean? A "Xeon-class" Core i7? Before you report on something, know what nouns to use.

That fact alone means that the Mac Pro will be a significantly different machine than it might have been otherwise.

As if we were expecting anything other than Xeons...

And whatever else it might have been….the Pro that we’ve had the opportunity to examine is three things for damn sure: extremely sexy, extremely energy-efficient, and extremely fast.

It's an Apple product; of course it will be. As long as this is right, perhaps we can count on a new 80+% efficiency PSU, eh?

While its outline is not dramatically different from the current Pro tower that has been in service since the introduction of the first PowerMac G5….the most striking change in the prototypes we’ve seen which include the new enclosure design is what used to be called the “cheesegrater” — the intake & exhaust vents on the front and rear of the tower.

They’re no longer silver like the side panels; instead, they are matte black.

If this is true, it's perfectly in line with my mockup in the first post... meaning epic.

The new industrial design doesn’t give up any of the high-airflow panels’ benefits; quite the opposite! Being slightly taller and wider, plus having numerous internal ventilation/cooling tweaks, the new tower actually improves upon them and combined with the cooler operation of the Nehalem CPUs/chipset, will result in almost silent operation of the new Mac Pro. In fact, during some operations most internal fans shut down entirely; dust-clogging problems experienced in older towers should be a thing of the past from what our sources at Infinite Loop have told us.

Make it DEEPER, not taller/wider! Fans shut down completely? A dream?

The only parts of the front panel which aren’t black are the optical drives and the cluster of front-mounted ports; both remain the silver-grey of bare aluminum, making them stand out considerably more — in our own hands-on tests, it was much easier to reach out into one’s peripheral vision and make successful contact with a cable on the first try than it was with a PowerMac G5, for example.

Mmm... mixed feelings about that look...

Having up to 16 (yes, sixteen!) cores certainly doesn’t hurt.

Darn. They were SO close to getting me to believe them. Second page, and now I know they're just making crap up.

Ooh! "Specs" now!

*2.8, 2.93, and 3.2GHz Core i7 Xeon 5500-series “Gainestown” processors with 8MB of L2 cache; previous models had 12MB of L2 per chip but due to Nehalem improvements, new L2 actually performs better — and the reduced amount improves cost, manfacturing yields, power/heat dissipation, et cetera.

*All versions dual-chip/dual Front Side Bus based; 2.93 and 3.2GHz models available with either quad or eight-core chips creating a total of eight or sixteen(!!!) cores.

They basically copy-pasted my first post, added more in-depth info, and made up the sixteen physical core bit...

*Dual-GPU “SLI” graphics system built by nVIDIA; entry-level eight core 2.8GHz model will have a single ATi GPU — possibly a 3600-class card — and all others will sport various types of dual nVIDIA cards in the 8000/9000 series. A configuration with dual GeForce 9800GX2 cards (which have dual GPUs on each card) for a total of four GPUs has been mentioned by sources but thus far, we have not been able to see one with our own eyes.

The 8/9000 series is fricking crap. GTX 260 minimum, PLEASE.

PCI Express expansion options considerably improved: two double-wide 32X graphics slots for SLI GPU(s), either 3 or 4 (depending on which prototype; we think, but cannot confirm, that the final version will have four) single-wide slots for “regular” expansion cards. These slots have a total of 32 PCIe lanes which can be dynamically assigned based on how many cards are inserted and what type of cards they are; the first two slots can run at up to 16X, the rest up to 8X. There had been some reporting early on that the dynamic feature might be disabled in favor of a more stable/reliable/compatible fixed 8X speed for all slots, but this no longer appears to be the case.

Wow, eh? I didn't know there WERE 32x slots! Or that any graphics card in existence could come close to saturating the 16x bus so that we would NEED 32x! And FOUR regular slots in addition to two double-wide 32x? Amazing!

Much more “Nehalem” Core i7 dirt is on the way — starting with the forthcoming Nehalem iMacs which we may see significantly sooner than March….so stay tuned!

That's it. They blew their credibility. There won't be Core i7 iMacs.

That was a FUNNY read. I look forward to reading the rest of their updates on the Nehalem Mac Pro.

 

[Umbongo]

Did we already cover their second article? It's fairly recent:

Yes a few pages back. The last paragraph about giving them hardware in return for reviews pretty much tells the whole story about that site.

 

[justflie]

That's it. They blew their credibility. There won't be Core i7 iMacs.

While I agree that it's improbable to see these beastly chips in such a tight space, it could be linked to the rumor of iMacs being delayed due to cooling issues. I forget where I saw this (AI/MR?) but there was rumor that the cooling system needed to be redesigned or something. It could be because they were trying to shoehorn these things in.

 

[nanofrog]

Don't know how they got to that conclusion either.

And the article says "Intel plans to ... [offer] ... an early look at what appears to be the company's first eight-core chip."

Wouldn't that mean that the 8-core CPU is still a while away? That makes sense considering that Beckton is scheduled for Q3-Q4 2009.

It really doesn't matter what we focus on, the article is crap.

They obviously have never heard of fact checking, to make up this amount of BS.

Oh well...Good for a laugh I guess.//shrugs

 

[iMacmatician]

A family of next-generation IA processors with up to 8 cores, enhanced Core™ microarchitecture, 3-level caches and 2-way SMT is implemented in 45nm high-κ metal-gate CMOS. The family has a coherent point-to-point link and integrates memory controller, power-management microcontroller and power-gate transistors and scales from sub-10 to 130W in mobile, desktop and server applications.

Sub-10 eh? This will be nice, hopefully that'll mean we'll know about LV/ULV mobile Nehalems and the such.

2.93 and 3.2GHz models available with either quad or eight-core chips creating a total of eight or sixteen(!!!) cores.

A 8-core 3.2 GHz CPU would either burn a hole in the computer or burn a hole through your wallet.

 

[nanofrog]

A 8-core 3.2 GHz CPU would either burn a hole in the computer or burn a hole through your wallet.

130 - 150W TDP (# of cores wouldn't matter), is doable cooling wise.

The hole in ones wallet would certainly be another matter.

 

[J the Ninja]

The x32 PCIe slot is real, btw, at least on the spec sheet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pci_express#Physical_Layer

 

[Tallest Skil]

The x32 PCIe slot is real, btw, at least on the spec sheet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pci_express#Physical_Layer

I thought that I remembered reading something about 32x PCIe...

My only question now is... WHY?! Nothing exists that could USE it!

 

[iMacmatician]

130 - 150W TDP (# of cores wouldn't matter), is doable cooling wise.

I was extrapolating from the 130 W of existing 3.2 GHz 4-core CPUs. Doubling the cores would almost double the TDP.

 

[NoNameBrand]

I thought that I remembered reading something about 32x PCIe...

My only question now is... WHY?! Nothing exists that could USE it!

640k is enough for anyone!

 

[Tallest Skil]

640k is enough for anyone!

Exists. There is no such thing as future-proofing.

 

[nanofrog]

The x32 PCIe slot is real, btw, at least on the spec sheet:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pci_express#Physical_Layer

True, but only on paper/dry erase boards. It will be awhile before it ever becomes reality (products available for end users).

I thought that I remembered reading something about 32x PCIe...

My only question now is... WHY?! Nothing exists that could USE it!

It is on the drawing board, but that's it.

Eventually a product will be developed that will need 32x lanes is expected. Saturation would take even longer. The standard has to be defined and accepted first though, so that's why it's already under way.

 

[nanofrog]

I was extrapolating from the 130 W of existing 3.2 GHz 4-core CPUs. Doubling the cores would almost double the TDP.

I understand.

I was thinking the designers would lower the voltage to reduce the TDP to something current cooler tech can handle. Really needed for 8 cores. Even at 180-200W, it's doable, as current coolers can actually handle this. Nocuta and Thermalright come to mind.

Beyond that, the coolers would need to be developed. Size and weight might me a major problem though, given the physical board limitations. (I would be concerned about cracking on the PCB causing broken traces, myself).

 

[iMacmatician]

I understand.

I was thinking the designers would lower the voltage to reduce the TDP to something current cooler tech can handle. Really needed for 8 cores. Even at 180-200W, it's doable, as current coolers can actually handle this. Nocuta and Thermalright come to mind.

And pick only the best chips too. That's another reason for the high price.

 

[vogelhausdesign]

Are you going with the 3.2GHz because you don't want to be too sore about the update whenever it happens? And then you'll want to upgrade the graphics when new cards become available. Best thing to do is avoid reading any more rumors and stop looking at the Apple web site, especially on Tuesdays

Will your business be loosing money if you don't buy now?

I'm even more flustered.. Because my next big project starts in 2 weeks. So, yes.. I'm stuck, I suppose I could wait, but if there is a single delay in shipping.. or development, or we just estimated the release date to be too soon. I will be forced to buy the current system, so not only would I be waiting to hear about the new technology release, I would have also delayed buying the 2x 3.2 system in the meantime.

Summary, I am sans computer at the moment. My next project launches in 2-3 weeks. what to do.. what to do..

 

[justflie]

2 weeks just sounds to be cutting it way too close. Typically, if there's an event about a product release, we hear about it at least a week in advance. You're going to either have to buy what's out there now or buy some lower spec'd stuff to tide you over. You would have to build in the extra render time into your schedule and then just sell off the lower spec'd machines when the time comes for the new systems.

 

[vogelhausdesign]

2 weeks just sounds to be cutting it way too close. Typically, if there's an event about a product release, we hear about it at least a week in advance. You're going to either have to buy what's out there now or buy some lower spec'd stuff to tide you over. You would have to build in the extra render time into your schedule and then just sell off the lower spec'd machines when the time comes for the new systems.

Just.. a long shot here.. not really too sure about this..

But would there be any way to just buy the processors and a board and cram it in the current model somehow.. maybe I'm dreaming.

I don't think I could work on a lower spec machine to be honest, it's 3.2 or nothing for me. So what I'm guessing is the 2x 3.2 machine is going to be fast enough to last me until 2010. or atleast I hope

2x 3.2 16gig RAM , 2x 8800 GT's for cintiq/ACD 30" .. I mean , that's not a bad set up right? It's not as if when the new one comes out it will run "too" far behind, right? am I right? And people will still be buying refurbs of my machine then too, I'm assuming

 

[BenRoethig]

I thought that I remembered reading something about 32x PCIe...

My only question now is... WHY?! Nothing exists that could USE it!

They once said the same thing about 2x AGP. It's good to be planning for the future.

 

[mchalebk]

Summary, I am sans computer at the moment. My next project launches in 2-3 weeks. what to do.. what to do..

The answer seems obvious to me. If you don't have a computer and have a project starting in 2-3 weeks, you need to buy the current model. Heck, it could still be several months before the MP is updated (though I hope not).

 

[m1stake]

Definitely go to your nearest Apple store or non-chain Apple Authorized Reseller. They'll be able to answer all of your questions and give you a feel for the Mac Pro.

Don't go to Best Buy (I don't think that they even carry them), and... I would have said "Don't go to Circuit City", because they carried Mac Pros, but they're out of business, so...

I'd recommend any small authorized reseller, they're more likely to know what they're talking about. Don't speak with some kid in the Apple store either, they have no idea what they're talking about. In addition, a few pot head acquaintances work there, and they're usually stoned. Not the kind of person you want to buy $40,000 worth of hardware from.

Summary, I am sans computer at the moment. My next project launches in 2-3 weeks. what to do.. what to do..

Boy do you need a computer now. Especially with the economy the way it is, if someone's offering you money for something, do it. Excuse me for being rude, but it would be incredibly foolish to pass up money because you have to have the latest and greatest.

 

[vogelhausdesign]

I'd recommend any small authorized reseller, they're more likely to know what they're talking about. Don't speak with some kid in the Apple store either, they have no idea what they're talking about.

I already have an apt. with my apple store business account manager. We're meeting at the starbucks across the street from my apple store.

Doesn't get more Apple than that.. haha.

In the mean time.. tell me straight, do you think a 2x 3.2 system will hold me until 2010 if I pamper it and feed it lots of ram chips.

 

[Tallest Skil]

In the mean time.. tell me straight, do you think a 2x 3.2 system will hold me until 2010 if I pamper it and feed it lots of ram chips.

Just a year? I don't see why not.

Unless you mean until Westmere, in which case ask yourself if it will hold you until Q4 2010...

An Apple rep scheduled to meet you outside the store? Is this standard procedure, because if it is...

Apple is even cooler than I ever imagined.

At least... the people who work for Apple who intimately know the machines and not just the dorky people who work there because it's "hip" and they get to see the new products four hours early when they are trained on them the day before release.

 

[Umbongo]

Just.. a long shot here.. not really too sure about this..

But would there be any way to just buy the processors and a board and cram it in the current model somehow.. maybe I'm dreaming.

It would be cheaper to just sell the older system and buy a new one even if replacing those parts was an option.

2x 3.2 16gig RAM , 2x 8800 GT's for cintiq/ACD 30" .. I mean , that's not a bad set up right? It's not as if when the new one comes out it will run "too" far behind, right? am I right? And people will still be buying refurbs of my machine then too, I'm assuming

You will still have a perfectly cabable system. If you want value for money and performance then I reccomend you get a refurb 3.2GHz from Apple, 16GB of memory from OWC or Transintl, an extra 8800GT from Apple (displays section) and then go look at the hard disk threads on the first and second page of this forum and buy drives from newegg or another such retailer (newegg due to their customer service). I'd probably buy some enterprise class Seagate or Western Digital 750GB or Western digital 640GB drives (WD6400AAKS) and put them in an appropriate software RAID setup.

edit: didnt see you have an appointment. Don't let him talk you in to the FX 5600.

Sure when Nehalem Mac Pros eventually come out for the same money you will have spent you could probably get an extra 15-20% "regular" performance, but well you need it now so that seems to be a moot point. If you don't already have an ACD then personally I'd get a 30" NEC, but of course if you have issues you will need to go through them or your reseller rather than being able to deal with Apple. So an ACD might be preferable.