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The 2009 (Gainestown) Mac Pro: Everything We Know
- Thread starter Tallest Skil
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If you order enough parts, you can afford to have a custom card made.
But that still may not make business sense. The logical thing for me would be cards with 2xD-DVI and a DisplayPort connection. With Apple making an adaptor for DisplayPort to Mini DP. I really can't see a custom Quadro card being made so that at least makes one card with such connections. In that case there is no reason for the other cards not to follow suit.
I see, I didn't realise the curernt ATi and Nvidia cards we're custom build, I thought they were just Nvidia built and Apple bought them in 'raw'.
Even so, I'm skeptical about whether they will include DisplayPort. There is little to no market demand for it aside from the LED display (obviosuly built for notebooks).
If the new ACD's are all DP/MDP too, then i think i is more likely.
Even so, I'm skeptical about whether they will include DisplayPort. There is little to no market demand for it aside from the LED display (obviosuly built for notebooks).
If the new ACD's are all DP/MDP too, then i think i is more likely.
Nvidia and AMD make GPUs. Don't confuse a GPU for the graphics card though. That is the PCB with the GPU, memory, connections, cooling solution and firmware put together. These are made by a number of manufacturers. I believe both companies write the firmware for Apple, but Nvidia provide Apple with the ability to write drivers for OS X and AMD write the drivers themselves.
Apple can get the specification they want, but it is probably more cost effective to use an existing manufacturing processes with new firmware. I think there can be no doubt all the Mac Pro cards in the future will have DisplayPort connectivity, it is whether they keep D-DVI that is the issue.
Nvidia doesn't build any cards, they just provide design outlines (ex: the 8800GT will support this, this, and that, and if you don't want to come up with your own heatsink, use this one. Ok, go include what you want), other companies assemble them. Some companies like EVGA devote a significant portion of their business to this.
Sorry, I did know that, just didn't want to insult the previous poster with an implicit correction. I was trying to refer to the card as a whole, but it was previously referred to as a GPU.
Makes sense, cheers.
Yeah I myself have been guilty of just calling the whole thing a GPU, doesn't help that a lot of the tech sites also do it.
Yea, I dont see why Apple couldnt do something simple as that. Especially when the mini displayport is now free for licensing.
I'm sure AMD will at least put the mini displayport on the mac versions of the cards for the people that wants to buy their cards even more.
Also if they add the mini displayport they could get a little something on the side from Apple for supporting it, thus helping Apple sell more cinema displays. And I'm sure Apple selling more displays makes a lot more than selling adapters.
Adapters ≠ selling more 24" LED ACD. I know its a brutal tactic but hey, this will get a lot of people to upgrade to the new cinema displays.
I wouldn't want to see the Mini DisplayPort substituted in for a full size Display Port either. Adapters make more sense to me in this case. Particularly since VESA has adopted the Mini DisplayPort into the standard. (Greater potential for parts availability, and no licensing and membership fees).
But a simple connector substitution is possible, and not going to greatly affect per unit cost provided the volume is high enough. (Different PCB revision and tooling [reprogramming the pick 'n place]. Beyond firmware of course).
IIRC, Apple writes the nVidia drivers for OS X, and ATI writes theirs.
I would think the DVI-D & DisplayPort combination would be around for awhile (say ~2 yrs) for legacy support.
But cant you convert from DisplayPort to DVI, hence making legacy support inherant with a single conversion?I would think the DVI-D & DisplayPort combination would be around for awhile (say ~2 yrs) for legacy support.
My understanding is that apple isn't going with Display port to cut costs and size but rather to accommodate digital copy protection thus allowing Blu-Ray (that long delayed feature in our Macs). Here is my source and here is the jist:
"One of the sticking points here is High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection--or HDCP for short. It states that "high-definition digital video sources must not transmit protected content to non-HDCP-compliant receivers."
Translation--no playing Blu-Ray discs to non-HDCP displays like Apple's Cinema Displays via DVI.
However, Apple is now deploying their new DisplayPort-enabled 24" LED Cinema Display equipped with HDCP. As such, any new DisplayPort Mac with a Blu-Ray drive and the correct software should be able to play commercial discs just fine."
So my (ill-informed) guess is that you will not see DVI on a mac once blu-ray appears. Apple is gearing up for this. The display and laptops are there, the mac Mini and Pro will be the last to fall.
DVI can do HDCP, just there are a bunch of monitors made before HDCP even existed, so they're not compatible.
But, yeah, long before Apple has Blu-ray, we will have moved from DVI.
The Pro needs to offer 3rd party display compatibility out of the box, imho; a lot of high-tier pro users don't run Apple displays, much less a monitor like the 24", and might consider a different OS if compatibility becomes an issue, or even just a nuisance.
Those are the guys/companies buying loads of the MP and keep the Pro market share up, not some nerdy kids or small time buyers like myself.
Keep in mind most pro apps run at least as well in Windows, many better, many are not even available for OSX.
Mini Display ports are not going to be an industry standard anytime soon (5-10 yrs), if ever.
Remember ADC ?
Yes, but DisplayPort outputs single link DVI-D, not dual link.
It would matter for some users (30" monitors).
Yes, but DisplayPort outputs single link DVI-D, not dual link.
It would matter for some users (30" monitors).
But a single mini displayport version 1.2 (not out yet) will output what dual link DVI-Ds will.
Thanks mate. So it's basically to save space on a laptop PC. Cool. I for one can't see the problem as if PNY are installing Display Ports into it's Quadro cards and other manufacturers placing them on FirePro cards then they must have big faith in the product. It's being aimed squarely at pro's in that respect. I for one am glad it's on my laptop, I can still plug it into my telly via VGA and it's a tiny port
Very true, but will it be shipped with the new Mac Pro? I agree that DP and/or Mini DP will be the norm but in the meantime i hope Apple will make the right choice for it's high end users. We may be a small portion of the Apple buyers guild, but we definitely show users what can be done with the Apple gear.
I don't plan on owning any 30" displays anytime soon, but I would love to have a Nehalem Mac Pro (time to put away the PowerPC) with DVI so I can just get right to work.
If anything a full sized DP.... not the mini that is undoubtedly for laptops.
It won't make it out in time for the next MP release. The standard was just adopted in Jan.
You should be able to upgrade when it comes out in a model that will work on the Mac though.
So ~2-3 years.
It won't make it out in time for the next MP release. The standard was just adopted in Jan.
You should be able to upgrade when it comes out in a model that will work on the Mac though.
So ~2-3 years.
Wait.. where does it say that it wont be in the new Mac Pro??
Not explicitly. Yet. (Wait for the specs to be published).
But since the v1.2 was adopted less than a month ago, there's no parts designed yet, let alone being manufactured.
Changing the topic slightly...
It is interesting to see Intel is lowering the prices on their (expensive) SSD offerings. Interestingly these only come in 1.8" and 2.5" form factors and begs the question whether the sleds in the next MacPro will be modified to accommodate these, especially so as many of the SAS drives used today have a 2.5" form factor and no doubt consume less power when compared to the 3.5" offerings all running at 15K rpm.
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11879&Itemid=36
Does anyone know what SSDs are used for the MacBook Air and more recently the Pro models today, these have been offered as 64GB, 128GB and 256GB respectively?
I can't think of a good reason why Apple would need to use a 3.5" form factor SSD, what I don't know however is whether they would consider offering an SLC in addition to the cheaper and lesser performing MLC offerings out there. Then again, perhaps they will continue to only offer 3.5" 300GB SAS requiring their RAID card - not a particularly power friendly option as the RAID card prevents the system from entering sleep mode and an expensive RAID 5 solution too giving you just over 2 x 300GB in capacity.
Think about it, an SSD system/app drive with sub millisecond seek time and looking at the specs for the Intel enterprise SSDs, blazingly fast read performance and only using a single drive.
Thoughts?
It is interesting to see Intel is lowering the prices on their (expensive) SSD offerings. Interestingly these only come in 1.8" and 2.5" form factors and begs the question whether the sleds in the next MacPro will be modified to accommodate these, especially so as many of the SAS drives used today have a 2.5" form factor and no doubt consume less power when compared to the 3.5" offerings all running at 15K rpm.
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11879&Itemid=36
Does anyone know what SSDs are used for the MacBook Air and more recently the Pro models today, these have been offered as 64GB, 128GB and 256GB respectively?
I can't think of a good reason why Apple would need to use a 3.5" form factor SSD, what I don't know however is whether they would consider offering an SLC in addition to the cheaper and lesser performing MLC offerings out there. Then again, perhaps they will continue to only offer 3.5" 300GB SAS requiring their RAID card - not a particularly power friendly option as the RAID card prevents the system from entering sleep mode and an expensive RAID 5 solution too giving you just over 2 x 300GB in capacity.
Think about it, an SSD system/app drive with sub millisecond seek time and looking at the specs for the Intel enterprise SSDs, blazingly fast read performance and only using a single drive.
Thoughts?
Basically, expect these SSD drives to replace all HDD drives in the next 5 or 10 years. They are blindingly fast as so quiet, I don't have one but as soon as an amazingly fast 320gb or more model is released I may take the plunge. But to replace a desktop drive, then they will need to reach a terrabyte I'd say first.
We live in hope but for the next few years building out arrays of over 100TBs is just not going to be economical using SSD and only makes good sense in terms of power; 2.5" drives provide an alternative for reducing power and foorprint in the meantime.
Using SSD where it gives the biggest bang for the buck seems to be what you should be looking to do at this time I believe, not bigger and more expensive SSDs. Much as volatile memory in array controllers and to a larger extent, enterprise storage arrays do to accelerate HDD performance by taking the incoming writes and prefetching from disk to faster cache memory. This is where I believe SSDs will initially be positioned outside the notebook market.
For a workstation class machine using a small but fast SSD for system and applications, a significant performance benefit should be expected.
In 5 - 10 years the landscape may well look different.
Look at WD's VelociRaptor HD's, they are 2.5's and are placed in a "heatsink" to make them fit 3.5 mountings...
WD VelociRaptor
Perhaps the sleds may be capable of using the newer sizes. No way to know for sure, but the 3.5" will be around awhile yet I would think.
Nice drives, and the heatsink isn't actually needed.
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