theITGuy
macrumors 6502a
Thanks for those stats NathanCH...horrid start to the WC...I hope they at least ban the bees for the final? One can hope?
-J.-
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The 2010 World Cup
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Thanks for those stats NathanCH...horrid start to the WC...I hope they at least ban the bees for the final? One can hope?
-J.-
swiftaw
macrumors 603
A few thoughts:
1) Traditionally the first game for each team is overly cautious since the odds of progressing if you lose your first game is not great. Thus, I'll reserve judgement on the quality of the tournament at least for another week.
2) The horns. We all know that TV money rules sport these days, and if the TV people decide that horns etc. diminish their product they will force FIFA to ban them in future tournaments.
3) The ball. Can you think of any other sport that introduces a change to the key piece of equipment right before its showcase event? I already proposed my solution: There is no problem with a new ball for each world cup, but this ball has to be used for all qualifying matches for the world cup, that way players will have had 2 years of using it.
4) Diving. On the plus side, I haven't actually seen much blatant diving. Except for one player who I refuse to name.
1) Traditionally the first game for each team is overly cautious since the odds of progressing if you lose your first game is not great. Thus, I'll reserve judgement on the quality of the tournament at least for another week.
2) The horns. We all know that TV money rules sport these days, and if the TV people decide that horns etc. diminish their product they will force FIFA to ban them in future tournaments.
3) The ball. Can you think of any other sport that introduces a change to the key piece of equipment right before its showcase event? I already proposed my solution: There is no problem with a new ball for each world cup, but this ball has to be used for all qualifying matches for the world cup, that way players will have had 2 years of using it.
4) Diving. On the plus side, I haven't actually seen much blatant diving. Except for one player who I refuse to name.
I agree with your other points, but this one isn't exactly true. It wasn't released just before the WC. Several leagues, USA and German notably, have had access to this ball for months. I do agree that everyone should have a fair go before the tournament though.
takao
macrumors 68040
right before the event ... in february ... after anouncing it years before that there will be a new ball
the problem is that some leagues have exclusive inflexible contracts which forbids them using any other ball
FA for example is using the Nike ball, and for their international games an umbro ball.. so England for example couldn't play international friendlies with the new adidas ball ... because of their OWN contracts
for example the in the dutch, swiss, german and portugese leagues the new ball was already used and evaluated ... and guess how many complaints ? yeah ... NONE
"unfair advantage for teh germans" i already heard a lot on the internet ... but until next year the german Bundesliga has never had an official "Bundesliga ball" .. so in the german league balls were used this season depending on the home team and their sponsor/choice of playing ball
edit: and as a matter of fact this new ball is based on the EURO2008 ball which itself is based on the +teamgeist used in 2006
the big difference is a more grippy surface to support keepers catching balls (!) and different segmentation of the surface parts
swiftaw
macrumors 603
My argument is that FIFA could and should say that the same ball will be used in the World Cup Finals as was used in the World Cup Qualifiers. So everyone knows exactly what they are using and will know what to expect come the start of the Finals.
We can have a new ball for each World Cup but it has to be ready for the start of World Cup Qualifying.
Don't panic
macrumors 603
I agree that the ball should be used for quali as well, so we would get the baseless complaints there and not for the actual cup.
any case, i don't think the ball has any bearing on the lower number of goals.
vuvuzuelas are annoying like hell for spectators but also i doubt they affect the game.
i think it's mostly because the level of play is getting more equal and you don't get the ridiculous scores against clearly inferior teams.
In particular from a tactical point of view, small teams seem much wiser.
any case, i don't think the ball has any bearing on the lower number of goals.
vuvuzuelas are annoying like hell for spectators but also i doubt they affect the game.
i think it's mostly because the level of play is getting more equal and you don't get the ridiculous scores against clearly inferior teams.
In particular from a tactical point of view, small teams seem much wiser.
Don't panic
macrumors 603
interesting, especially given that the majority of games are over before lunch... 😉
obeygiant
macrumors 601
Beer for breakfast? Sure! But I was referring to a match i saw last Sunday afternoon. 🙂
swiftaw
macrumors 603
Nothing like cracking open the first beer at 6:30am as the first game kicks off. 😀
Thoughts on our matchball...
You obviously know German football better than I do, but I think it's the case (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that the Bundesliga doesn't have a standard ball used throughout the league, as is the case in other competitions such as the English Premier League, Italy's Serie A or the Spanish La Liga (all of whom are contracted to use Nike balls, I think I'm right in saying). In Germany the teams themselves supply the matchball for their home games, and obviously the German Adidas balls are going to be a popular choice. Certainly, Bundesliga based players (ie, the whole German squad) are obviously practised in using them and as you say there haven't been any complaints from them about the ball's behaviour in league play, nor from players in the other leagues who use the ball.
I think the problem is simply that a football – any football – behaves differently at altitude. The air is thinner, the pressure is different, and other stuff (I went to art college, that's as scientific as I get 😛). This problem could well be amplified by the ball design, it's supposed to be rounder and more aerodynamic so this may add to the unpredictability in the thinner air. Could it be just coincidence that the team who have arguably impressed the most so far in this World Cup – Germany – not only has a squad consisting entirely of players who are used to playing with the Jabulani ball, but played their match at sea level where altitude isn't a factor?
It should also be noted that many of the complaints about the ball surfaced during the pre-tournament training camps, most of which took place at altitude as the players acclimatised for South Africa. Also, looking at the list of players whose complaints took most of the headlines, most play for club sides in leagues which haven't been using the Jabulani. For example, looking at the ball's Wikipedia page (not a definitive source of knowledge I know but it serves to to get a rough sample), all of the 10 players who are quoted as being critical of the ball play in leagues where Nike or Mitre balls are used, not Adidas.
Finally, the Jabulani has been available from the start of the year for teams to train with – however, a number of nations have opted not to practise with it until the very eve of the tournament, and England are among them. So, if we're taken by surprise by it we can have little complaint.
I don't think that's the case – if I remember what I've read rightly, it's an entirely new design from the teamgeist – eight panels instead of fourteen and all that.
But you're quite right on this count – the ball has been used in many leagues as the standard matchball for the past season.
You obviously know German football better than I do, but I think it's the case (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that the Bundesliga doesn't have a standard ball used throughout the league, as is the case in other competitions such as the English Premier League, Italy's Serie A or the Spanish La Liga (all of whom are contracted to use Nike balls, I think I'm right in saying). In Germany the teams themselves supply the matchball for their home games, and obviously the German Adidas balls are going to be a popular choice. Certainly, Bundesliga based players (ie, the whole German squad) are obviously practised in using them and as you say there haven't been any complaints from them about the ball's behaviour in league play, nor from players in the other leagues who use the ball.
I think the problem is simply that a football – any football – behaves differently at altitude. The air is thinner, the pressure is different, and other stuff (I went to art college, that's as scientific as I get 😛). This problem could well be amplified by the ball design, it's supposed to be rounder and more aerodynamic so this may add to the unpredictability in the thinner air. Could it be just coincidence that the team who have arguably impressed the most so far in this World Cup – Germany – not only has a squad consisting entirely of players who are used to playing with the Jabulani ball, but played their match at sea level where altitude isn't a factor?
It should also be noted that many of the complaints about the ball surfaced during the pre-tournament training camps, most of which took place at altitude as the players acclimatised for South Africa. Also, looking at the list of players whose complaints took most of the headlines, most play for club sides in leagues which haven't been using the Jabulani. For example, looking at the ball's Wikipedia page (not a definitive source of knowledge I know but it serves to to get a rough sample), all of the 10 players who are quoted as being critical of the ball play in leagues where Nike or Mitre balls are used, not Adidas.
Finally, the Jabulani has been available from the start of the year for teams to train with – however, a number of nations have opted not to practise with it until the very eve of the tournament, and England are among them. So, if we're taken by surprise by it we can have little complaint.
That's one tradition I'm glad the England team stick to, at least outside of tournaments where squad numbers are submitted in advance.
That brings back chilling memories from Japan/South Korea 2002...
Korea DPR playing well atm. Nicely organised. Brazil not so much.
The culprit is... Robert Green... with the vuvuzela... in the Adidas ball laboratory.
theITGuy
macrumors 6502a
aloofman
macrumors 68020
takao
macrumors 68040
actually i think altitude difference is still the bigger impact... combined with the easy way of having a scapegoat who can't talk back 😉
another point to consider: the official UEFA champions league ball has been the last _10_ years adidas supplied ... and believe it or not:
since season 2005/2006 it was based on the teamgeist ...
and next years gonna get gimmicky star shaped panels (but still being based on jambulani) so i wouldn't exactly think about the influence of panels that much
that said: on brazil vs north korea: rather shameful result for brazil .... the first goal while nice to watch was clearly a keeper error though ... he opened up the "short corner" way too wide
and also undisciplinary: after the north korea goal with a score of 2:1 what did the brazilian palyers do in the 88. minute ? did they try to keep the posession and avoid risks and play down the clock those 2 minutes ? no they moved forward and lost the ball again with half their squad not even running seriously back after losing the ball...
another point to consider: the official UEFA champions league ball has been the last _10_ years adidas supplied ... and believe it or not:
since season 2005/2006 it was based on the teamgeist ...
and next years gonna get gimmicky star shaped panels (but still being based on jambulani) so i wouldn't exactly think about the influence of panels that much
that said: on brazil vs north korea: rather shameful result for brazil .... the first goal while nice to watch was clearly a keeper error though ... he opened up the "short corner" way too wide
and also undisciplinary: after the north korea goal with a score of 2:1 what did the brazilian palyers do in the 88. minute ? did they try to keep the posession and avoid risks and play down the clock those 2 minutes ? no they moved forward and lost the ball again with half their squad not even running seriously back after losing the ball...