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The 2010 World Cup

takao said:
actually i think altitude difference is still the bigger impact... combined with the easy way of having a scapegoat who can't talk back ;)

another point to consider: the official UEFA champions league ball has been the last _10_ years adidas supplied ... and believe it or not:

since season 2005/2006 it was based on the teamgeist ...
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Indeed. There were plenty of complaints about the teamgeist too off course, prior to the last World Cup – but players have used it perfectly well in many league, cup and international competitions since then (and even before the 2006 tournament), the Champions League included.

takao said:
and next years gonna get gimmicky star shaped panels (but still being based on jambulani) so i wouldn't exactly think about the influence of panels that much
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Of course, the fancy stars are just printed onto the ball and have no bearing on the shape of the panels, but fewer panels on the new ball means fewer seams, which I suppose means less air resistance – and at altitude where the air is thinner this is going to affect the behaviour of the ball.

But the fact that teams would be playing in these conditions with this long-specified ball shouldn't take anyone by surprise. At the very least, national teams have had access to them since the early spring so there's been plenty of opportunity to get used to them. As you say, the ball is a popular, perennial scapegoat.

Anyway – bring back the Tango, I say. That was a proper ball. :)
 
It's difficult to tell, because most commentators don't seem to understand the issue, but I think the criticism of the ball basically centers around the susceptibility to "knuckle" the ball, by kicking it without applying any spin, which, although I'm unfamiliar with the physics, ostensibly becomes easier the rounder the ball gets.
These "knuckle" balls have definitely been increasing in incidence, presumably because the balls are getting rounder. Cristiano Ronaldo is particularly adept at hitting free kicks with the technique, although other players are working on it. Keisuke Honda of Japan is very good at hitting such balls, and is better than Ronaldo at doing it, I'd say. In the China-France friendly recently, the China goal was scored with a "knuckle" free kick.
In general play, if a player (un)intentionally hits the ball with little spin, it will move about and "knuckle", because of turbulence in the air. Apparently the effect becomes more marked in lower pressure at high altitudes. I think this is the issue. Perfect "knuckle" balls are almost impossible to save, and there are already some very good examples, e.g. Schweinsteiger's goal against Portugal last world cup.
 
gheat93 said:
It's difficult to tell, because most commentators don't seem to understand the issue, but I think the criticism of the ball basically centers around the susceptibility to "knuckle" the ball, by kicking it without applying any spin, which, although I'm unfamiliar with the physics, ostensibly becomes easier the rounder the ball gets.
These "knuckle" balls have definitely been increasing in incidence, presumably because the balls are getting rounder. Cristiano Ronaldo is particularly adept at hitting free kicks with the technique, although other players are working on it. Keisuke Honda of Japan is very good at hitting such balls, and is better than Ronaldo at doing it, I'd say. In the China-France friendly recently, the China goal was scored with a "knuckle" free kick.
In general play, if a player (un)intentionally hits the ball with little spin, it will move about and "knuckle", because of turbulence in the air. Apparently the effect becomes more marked in lower pressure at high altitudes. I think this is the issue. Perfect "knuckle" balls are almost impossible to save, and there are already some very good examples, e.g. Schweinsteiger's goal against Portugal last world cup.
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The US needs to have Tim Wakefield in their team then :D
 
Jaffa Cake said:
Of course, the fancy stars are just printed onto the ball and have no bearing on the shape of the panels, but fewer panels on the new ball means fewer seams, which I suppose means less air resistance – and at altitude where the air is thinner this is going to affect the behaviour of the ball.
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no the new ball for next season really has star shaped panels now

some pictures
http://www.soccerbible.com/news/general/archive/2010/03/09/adidas-Finale-X-Madrid-Football.aspx

top 4 pictures ... below are some older balls

edit: to get back to the games: one thing which really surprised me yesterday was that north korea could defend against brazil with pretty much no fouls or even rough tackles at all... quite a fair play team i have to say... and Fabiano from brazil being quite the opposite with some rough playing there
 
My thoughts on the ball from a blatantly simplistic perspective on footie. I like the pareto-improving dancer:danger the Jabulani/tauber soccer ball offers. I can envisage it giving kaspar or whatever his name is the opportunity for a mega ba umf past l'assiette au beurre.
 
takao said:
no the new ball for next season really has star shaped panels now
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Ah, fair enough – I stand corrected! The ball in the link is this season's though, used in Madrid in May.

I was thinking of the 2009 edition, which – despite the fancy graphics – was essentially a teamgeist, the distinctive panels are clearly visible.

Adidas Champions League Final 2009 Match Ball-03.jpg

Looking into it, the Champions League ball is a Finale, originally developed from the Terrestra Silverstream which was the ball used in Euro 2000, and of a similar design to the one used in the 2002 World Cup. Of course, there were complaints about that ball too...

Curiously, the Wikipedia link mentions that the Jabulani panelling was used on the 2010 ball, but in the photos in your link star and hexagon panels are clearly used. So I don't know. But it seems that the Finale's panelling has changed a number of times over the years to match the design of Adidas' main ball of the time. Certainly though, the 2010 edition in your link clearly uses the textured dimpling found on the Jabulani.

One additional thing that I forgot to mention in my earlier post – you mention that there are complaints in some quarters (including the English media) that Germany are getting an unfair advantage due to the German-made ball. Ridiculous of course, especially when you consider that while the ball may have been designed in Germany a lot of the testing and analysis was done right here in England, at the University of Loughborough – so no, it's hardly a plot against us by those dastardly foreigners. ;)

Anyway, we can all agree that they need to stop whinging and get on with playing with it. :p

Moving away from the football and... er... back to the football. Reigning European Champions and competition favourites Spain make their bow this afternoon against the Swiss. I'm going for a 2-1 Spanish victory.
 
Jaffa Cake said:
Ah, fair enough – I stand corrected! The ball in the link is this season's though, used in Madrid in May.
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Jaffa Cake said:
I was thinking of the 2009 edition, which – despite the fancy graphics – was essentially a teamgeist, the distinctive panels are clearly visible.
Moving away from the football and... er... back to the football. Reigning European Champions and competition favourites Spain make their bow this afternoon against the Swiss. I'm going for a 2-1 Spanish victory.
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it's confusing because during the season they used a different ball than during the final ... in the final they always showcase the new ball for next season

about spain vs. swiss .. gonna be a quite close game if the swiss have kept their shape from last years especially with their quite nice defenders (a goal from Magnin would be quite appreciated for my fantasy world cup team)... and brazil vs north korea showed that even big teams can stumble ... the spanish team being quite notorious for it even

that said todays other 2 games are also bound to get interesting .. chile vs. honduras ... as far as i know chile is a rather attacking team so i hope it's not gonan get a defense battle yet again
and i nthe evening we wil lsee wether Forlan and Suarez can get more chances/goals against south africa

my guesses though:

chile - honduras: 2 - 1
switzerland - spain 1 - 1 (crossing my fingers for the swiss)
south africa - uruguay 0 - 2
 
I think people forget a big problem with soccer balls outside of the Adidas Teamgeist and Jabulani designs is that they are NOT anywhere close to perfectly round balls. As such, if you're used to the Nike T90 Ascente with its more traditional design, switching to the more "round" Adidas balls can cause problems. I've actually kicked a Jabulani ball and and if you kick it "off angle" it will travel in an unusual fashion compared to a traditional ball.

That's why the German team did so well in its first game--most of the players on that team come from the Bundeliga, who have been using the Jabulani ball for many months in the competition on that league so they're used to the characteristics of this new ball.
 
SactoGuy18 said:
That's why the German team did so well in its first game--most of the players on that team come from the Bundeliga, who have been using the Jabulani ball for many months in the competition on that league so they're used to the characteristics of this new ball.
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And, as we say, they played that first match at sea level – so the problems the ball has in the thinner air at higher altitudes wasn't a factor.

oscillatewildly said:
About 7 Hours Warning:

Fantasy football deadline.

swiftaw - remember to select a captain
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Ssh! Don't let on about that, some of us need all the help we can get! :D
 
Where do they get this refs from?
Fernandez looks him in the wrong way - yellow card.
The Honduras' defender brings down Sánchez by the hip when he was heading for goal - no card!


EDIT: GOAL GOAL GOAL GOAL

In typical Chile fashion

We will finally find out if Honduras knows how to attack. Maybe they will get out of their defensive positions - and oh will they pay for that!
 
With Chupete, in the bench :)

Still, a couple of very good close calls including Ponce's header that the keeper did a very good job of turning it away on the line.

Oh, and the foul over Alexis right at the entrance of the area... not sure if that was a penalty or not, but on the replay it was clearly a foul (with a stepping over included by the second Honduras' player). If it was inside or outside, I'll need another replay.


EDIT: well, just 1-0. Underwhelming. Hopefully we will beat Switzerland by a bigger margin.

oscillatewildly said:
Republic of Seychelles. Still, glad he didn't book Sanchez for hand-ball.

Where's the second goal?
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So, the last two teams are about to start their first match. Since we will then have had a look at every team, what would your views be on:

1) The most impressive looking team?
2) The least impressive looking team?
3) The team that surprised you the most (in a positive way)?
4) The most disappointing team?

For me (and of course, that could change depending on how Spain and Switzerland perform):

1. Germany
2. Australia
3. Chile
4. Either France or Italy.
 
swiftaw said:
1) The most impressive looking team?
2) The least impressive looking team?
3) The team that surprised you the most (in a positive way)?
4) The most disappointing team?
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20 min gone in the Spain match...I can tell you that Germany looked better...

1) Germany
2) Greece
3) North Korea...their goal was brilliant and they are amateurs but have great work ethic and fitness...honorable mention to Chile...they play a very interesting game and should've had 3-4 against Honduras
4) Italy, dishonorable mention for Holland so far...

-J.-
 
I'll wait until after the Spain game. I'm expecting big things from them, so let's see...
 
theITGuy said:
20 min gone in the Spain match...I can tell you that Germany looked better...

1) Germany
2) Greece
3) North Korea...their goal was brilliant and they are amateurs but have great work ethic and fitness...honorable mention to Chile...they play a very interesting game and should've had 3-4 against Honduras
4) Italy, dishonorable mention for Holland so far...

-J.-
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Oh yeah, I forgot how truly awful Greece looked.
 
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