They had the game won though, that was over the line if he hadn't deliberately hand balled it. He knew that they would have to take a penalty if he handled it so he did it knowing that they could miss. IMO this favours the offenders.
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The 2010 World Cup
- Thread starter Jaffa Cake
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Granted I'm a stupid Yank that's new to football, but I don't see why it's a problem for a player to take advantage of the rules of the game. In American Football, beaten defensive players will intentionally commit pass interference to prevent a touchdown. Intentional fouls occur in basketball to prevent an easy layup. The penalties for doing these things are harsh, but we don't generally consider the offending player to be a cheater. We'll just complain about the rules that allow him to do this.
I'm not arguing the point as much as I'm just trying to get a feel for the prevailing attitudes about this kind of thing from 'real' fans.
I agree - and also disagree. Yes, it's in the rules, but it's a foul, by which is meant foul play, another term for cheating. Morally and ethically questionable gamesmanship.
On the one hand, it's hard to blame Suarez for effectively giving his side another chance to win the match, but at the same time it's hard to applaud him for it. It's not really in the spirit of the game. Most players would probably do the same in his position - but most would just as quickly condemn it if on the other side.
in 90% of cases such a hand-save + red card and penalty by a player doesn't pay off, so a rule chance isn't really needed
edit: because most penalties are scored... and suarez is missing the important game .. so it's not like he'got off'
in all it can be compared with tactical fouls somewhere in the middle of the pitch preventing counters ... you hardly hear about people demanding harsher rules there
the crazy thing is how suarez had even another save with his leg on the line just few seconds before... absolutley unbelievable
(he ruined my fantasy team points .. thank you very much)
after all nobody forced gyan to hammer his penalty over the box ... nor the two other ghana players with their absolute shockingly penalties or the uruguaian "david beckham rememberance penalty"
edit: because most penalties are scored... and suarez is missing the important game .. so it's not like he'got off'
in all it can be compared with tactical fouls somewhere in the middle of the pitch preventing counters ... you hardly hear about people demanding harsher rules there
the crazy thing is how suarez had even another save with his leg on the line just few seconds before... absolutley unbelievable
(he ruined my fantasy team points .. thank you very much)
after all nobody forced gyan to hammer his penalty over the box ... nor the two other ghana players with their absolute shockingly penalties or the uruguaian "david beckham rememberance penalty"
I think you have to ask the question: Is the punishment severe enough for the crime? In this case I don't think so, and don't forget that a last minute penalty in the World Cup with the whole of Africa on your shoulders is not a(for lack of a better word) fair "chance".
My friend who watched the game with me imagined the following scenario:
Uruguay win against Holland by lets say, defending all game with 11 men behind the ball and at the last minute having an outfield player handle the ball on the line, Suarez will get to play in the final.
My reply, "if that happens and I were Suarez, I would, just before the finale kick off, look in Blatter's direction and give him the finger as a metaphor to what I did with their rules and got away with".
But then you can argue he was trying to fool the ref knowing that as it was crowded in there that the ref and linesman might not have seen it.
Ghana deserved to lose. They were diving all over the place in the final minutes of extra time. And they do that all the time.
Well, the game's not strictly all about fairness, otherwise we'd be video-replaying every single questionable call and have a hundred little stoppages during every match.
I am in no way defending what Suarez did - it was cheating. But I think the rule is pretty fair in redressing the balance - if you handball on the line, you might save your team a goal, but the odds are heavily against a missed penalty, and you will be sent off either way. Statistically it's not worth it. This was by far the exeption to the rule.
I am in no way defending what Suarez did - it was cheating. But I think the rule is pretty fair in redressing the balance - if you handball on the line, you might save your team a goal, but the odds are heavily against a missed penalty, and you will be sent off either way. Statistically it's not worth it. This was by far the exeption to the rule.
The one they just played. I saw a lot of times where they were just falling down then holding their arms up asking for foul or a penalty. Complete crap. No better than Italy.
honestly though in the second half there where countless situations where ghana players 'played the clock' to prevent uruguay getting into attacking rythm when they had their stronger phase in the game
edit: all in all ghana was lucky to get into overtime and after the overtime it was uruguay who was lucky...
no, a foul=cheating, at least in my view.
i think 99.99% of professional players would do the same in that position.
if maradona in 86 had gone to the ref and said "it was a handball" and the ref disallowed the goal, would he still be a cheater or the ultimate honest player (considering the sporting and political stakes there).
the cheating was in the exploitation of the foul, not the foul itself.
Ghana did the same thing against USA after their winning goal - every time we bumped into a Ghanaian player, he went to ground like he'd been smashed in the face with a club.
But Maradona (along with the rest of the world) knew that you are not allowed to score a goal with the fist. He was deliberately trying to cheat in the hope that it wouldn't get called, regardless of the outcome of the play. The goal officially counts, but everyone in the whole world knows he cheated.
Don't panic said:
But Maradona (along with the rest of the world) knew that you are not allowed to score a goal with the fist. He was deliberately trying to cheat in the hope that it wouldn't get called, regardless of the outcome of the play. The goal officially counts, but everyone in the whole world knows he cheated.
Might is the key word there for me. Remove all doubt and say if you handle on the line, goal given and your off. Thierry Henry type handballs would be a red card and a penalty.
What the hell are you smoking? I must have been watching another ghana game then.
Exactly. Sure I understand why it's done but it's poor gamesmanship.
That really pissed me off, but not as much as the US pretty much blowing it again.
I don't like the idea of automatically awarding goals. As far as I'm aware, it only happens in the case of a forfeit and it should stay that way IMO.
A lot of casual American observers have been really harsh on the USA. I am a little disappointed we didn't make it farther but we played well throughout the tournament - we were always in every game, never got rocked. Conceding goals early killed us in the end but I'm proud of our campaign and look forward to even better results in the future.
because he then pretended it was legit. if he had told the ref it was a handball, and the ref had disallowed the goal, he would have become the posterboy of fair-play.
Refs aren't supposed to change a call like that, so it would be a case of shoddy reffing rather than an Honest Diego.
I suppose we'll all have to agree to disagree on this one...
Although I somewhat see your point I can't help but respectfully disagree. According to FIFA the rules are there to make 'the game as fair as possible', the little issues that you're referring to shouldn't keep officials from trying to correct the huge problems with today's rules.
At the risk of sounding like Kanye @ Katrina let me say that unfortunately this injustice wasn't done on a "big" team so I doubt things will change, but the second the referee misses an England goal Mr. Blatter issues an apology and reopens the debate. It's the sad truth of the game.
Edit: Just read your comment about agree to disagree, you're absolutely right. I didn't mean to sound aggressive so sorry if I did, but I will admit that it's been awhile since I've actually been hyped for this sort of debate. *Sigh* I miss this feeling.
Well then lets agree to disagree
For me though its similar to the last defender yellow/red card situation. If a defender brings down an attacker and he isn't the last defender he gets a yellow card (unless its a dangerous tackle) and is taking one for the team. If he is last defender and its clear goal scoring opportunity its a straight red card. The tackle can be the same for each offence but one would get you yellow and one red because the intent of knowing your the last man is there. I would apply the same to the handball on the line scenario and award the goal
I'm not harsh on them but I'm a little irritated because they were the better team and should have won. Conceding that goal early and then another in extra was devastating.
I hope to see Donovan come back in 2014. He's gotten so much better over the years. Tim Howard had an amazing cup too.
The thing that still gets me every time I watch the Hand of God play is how Maradona -- a midget by athlete standards -- punched the ball over the head of an average-sized keeper. The keeper must have had the vertical leaf of a tree.
And of course the biggest irony is that his first goal of that game tends to overshadow the brilliance of his second one, which is still amazing to watch even today.
My biggest disappointment is the wasted opportunity. No matter how much better the US team gets in 2014 and beyond, it's very unlikely that they will have as easy a path to the semifinals as they had this year. And they couldn't take advantage of it. But I'm pleased overall with their progress. The fact that there were even debates about who the US should have had on the field against Ghana is a sign that our depth has improved!
USA played better than England/France/Italy so dont worry about it
That does make me feel better. Thanks!