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The 2010 World Cup

Lord Blackadder said:
But Maradona (along with the rest of the world) knew that you are not allowed to score a goal with the fist. He was deliberately trying to cheat in the hope that it wouldn't get called, regardless of the outcome of the play. The goal officially counts, but everyone in the whole world knows he cheated.
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This is exactly what's wrong with this sport. In golf players routinely call fouls on themselves because they couldn't live with the shame of being accused a cheater. Brian Davis done it even thought it cost him $1m. Daren Clarke did it although it cost him the Irish Open. It cost Roberto De Vicenzo The Masters. But in football cheats are applauded by their own team and supporters because they think they got one over the refs and the opposition. And I'm not even talking about tonight's handball, it's the diving, the play acting, German keeper pretending the ball didn't go over the line. Video evidence or more refs isn't going to sort it, we need a cultural change, one demanded by the fans but also demanded by those in the game.
 
Fuzzy14 said:
This is exactly what's wrong with this sport. In golf players routinely call fouls on themselves because they couldn't live with the shame of being accused a cheater. Brian Davis done it even thought it cost him $1m. Daren Clarke did it although it cost him the Irish Open. It cost Roberto De Vicenzo The Masters. But in football cheats are applauded by their own team and supporters because they think they got one over the refs and the opposition. And I'm not even talking about tonight's handball, it's the diving, the play acting, German keeper pretending the ball didn't go over the line. Video evidence or more refs isn't going to sort it, we need a cultural change, one demanded by the fans but also demanded by those in the game.
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this a completely agree with.
this is the 'cheating' that irritates me.
today handball was just a normal foul (also a quite an instinctive reaction), there was no intention of "fooling" the ref, or the silence in front of an obvious injustice.
Another case of this cheating by silence was today in the brazil game: on a shot from maicon, the dutch keeper clearly deflected out for a corner, but the linesman/ref didn't see it and the keeper kept his mouth shut. just for a corner kick.
(and here i have to disagree with blackadder again ;): the ref can certainly change his decision if new evidence comes up like one of the players fessing up)

here is a player refusing a penalty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw6MYwokbhU&feature=related
and here are two separate teams (ascoli and ajax), in dutch and italian professional leagues, that allowed the other team to score an uncontested goal because there was a goal caused by a misunderstanding with a player being injured.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/07/sports/soccer/07iht-SOCCER.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELkZF2OYhiY
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPk-wmqP5ec&feature=related
 
I reckon he just panicked and used his hands because the player in front of him was trying to as it went over his head, as opposed to deliberately sacrificing himself becasue he had no other choice. The ball actually came down low enough for Suarez to head it away anyway, but his feet stayed rooted to the ground without moving his head towards it, just his hands.

worldcup23.jpg


worldcup24.jpg
 
awmazz said:
I reckon he just panicked and used his hands because the player in front of him was trying to as it went over his head, as opposed to deliberately sacrificing himself becasue he had no other choice. The ball actually came down low enough for Suarez to head it away anyway, but his feet stayed rooted to the ground without moving his head towards it, just his hands.

worldcup23.jpg


worldcup24.jpg
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Beat me to it. Haven't seen a replay back to the free kick:

Was it right to award the kick?

Was someone offside following the kick?

Tabarez must be wondering why Suarez didn't head it.

Edit - and 'Match of the Day' didn't have a proper look.
 
Yes it was from free kick, maybe one of the Ghana players was slightly offside, #10 I think, but it was kicked around a bit after that.

You can see in that image that Suaraz' hands were already coming up before the ball was even halfway to the goal so he had enough reaction time to have tried heading it instead. The player's (?) head in front of him travels a good foot or two of distance just as the ball goes over him, so Suarez could have covered it but he just didn't move fast enough, or at all. Just his hands.
 
Don't panic said:
this a completely agree with.
this is the 'cheating' that irritates me.
today handball was just a normal foul (also a quite an instinctive reaction), there was no intention of "fooling" the ref, or the silence in front of an obvious injustice.
Another case of this cheating by silence was today in the brazil game: on a shot from maicon, the dutch keeper clearly deflected out for a corner, but the linesman/ref didn't see it and the keeper kept his mouth shut. just for a corner kick.
(and here i have to disagree with blackadder again ;): the ref can certainly change his decision if new evidence comes up like one of the players fessing up)

here is a player refusing a penalty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw6MYwokbhU&feature=related
and here are two separate teams (ascoli and ajax), in dutch and italian professional leagues, that allowed the other team to score an uncontested goal because there was a goal caused by a misunderstanding with a player being injured.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/07/sports/soccer/07iht-SOCCER.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELkZF2OYhiY
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPk-wmqP5ec&feature=related
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You may be right about the rules on refs changing calls. In the real world, only a ref can tell why he changes a call anyway (player pressure, catches a glimpes of a replay, crowd reaction, second thoughts etc), so it's a moot point I suppose.

Unfortunately, my computers are blocked from YouTube at work. :eek: But I'll take your word for it. ;)

It's certainly laudable for a player to admit fault and refuse to take advantage, but uncontested goals can cause a ref headaches and make a mockery of the rules. If you have to indulge in vigalante equalizers with any regularity, then the rules are broken and need to be changed (though I don't think they are).

I agree with you largely that there is plenty of cheating going on though, and that ideally a player should speak out when he has taken unfair advantage (although they often don't for the simple fact that they were deliberately cheating to gain advantage).

Perhaps worse than the cheating itself is its acceptance by fans and governing bodies who essentially sit idly by. Why is Diego Maradona allowed to become a legend? The "Hand of God" is a joke everyone (except the English) chuckle about rather than frowningly disapprove of. Most people (rightly) criticise Zidane for losing his head in the 2006 final, but fewer people highlight the fact that the headbutt was the result of unsportsmanlike baiting by Materazzi, culminating in his theatrical flop to the ground after being struck. That, in my mind, is every bit as worthty of a sending off as Zidane's silly response.

Anyway, the debate will continue forever. Was Suarez's handball a crucial tactical coup for Uruguay or a damnable swindling of Ghana? You decide. <points to world at large>
 
Lord Blackadder said:
Anyway, the debate will continue forever. Was Suarez's handball a crucial tactical coup for Uruguay or a damnable swindling of Ghana? You decide. <points to world at large>
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In a sense it's no different to a keeper or the last defender purposely taking a player out who's bearing in on an open goal. Phrrt. Penalty. Red card. They know they're going to get sent off, but they do it anyway to stop the goal.

This was just more deliberately obvious. Committing a foul like pulling the other player's shirt or taking their legs out to stop them allows you to pretend you only did it accidently. Suarez can make no such claim, so he's earned himself the 'did it on purpose cheater' label for all time now. :).

If there is an issue it's that he did it in the last ten seconds of the match, so the punishment of sending him off with no more play to come is nowhere near as severe as being sent off for the same thing in the middle of the first half and your team having to play the rest of the game a man down. Actually no punishment at all. Basically, the whole point of sending a player off is to punish the team by making them play a man down, but Uruguay didn't have to play a man down, not even for one second, so there was no punishment for their side. Only a benefit - a chance of a goal instead of an actual goal against them. So technically, Ghana were the ones who were punished by having something taken away from them.

From the news:

as Suarez was carried shoulder high by his team
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So he's a hero to his people. ;)

Uruguay coach Oscar Tabarez said it was "too harsh" to say that Suarez had cheated and that the Ajax striker had reacted instinctively.

"When there is a handball in the penalty area there is a red card and the player is thrown out of the game.

"I think it was instinctive. The player instinctively reacted and was thrown out of the match and he can't play the next match. What else do you want?"
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Pretty much addressed by what I just wrote above - thrown out of a game that had already ended. Not harsh at all. No punishment.

Is there no justice at this World Cup!??!?!:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/10497107.stm
 
well a handball on the line _is_ already handled differently.. it's a red isntead of a yellow card because he prevents a clear goal .. i still don't get the uproar, it's not like the not given goal against germany(with the keeper with his back to the ball how should he tell that it was behind the line ?) or the not given goal from USA or tevez offside or the fabiano double hands prior to a goal ? he got red carded and ghana got a penalty (their third one for the matter)

edit: if you really want to look for referee's who 'robbed' teams i recommend to look at some of the earlier world cups

world cup 1934 in italy : semifinal Italy vs Austria 1:0 ... refereee: self proclaimed mussolini fan Eklind managed to clear an austrian cross in front of goal with his head (!) and the italian goal happened to be four italians pushing the austrian goal keeper holding the ball over the line

the same refree then got to blow the whistle at the the final where he again ignored the rough and borderline brutal italian play again... who to top it off were playing with 4 argentinians who according to fifa rules weren't even allowed to play for italy yet
 
the greatest hand ball/red card ever. it had to be done. i told my kids never to do that unless they are in the exact same circumstances. and followed it by saying "Never do that!".

he couldn't get his head on it and be sure it would stop it.

to bad for ghana, i agree, it is always going to be to bad for someone.
 
Was just reading an article which had the following quote regarding FIFA's fair play code which states: "Winning is without value if victory has been achieved unfairly or dishonestly. Cheating is easy, but brings no pleasure". :rolleyes:

No pleasure? Tell that to the millions of Uruguayans who spent all night celebrating, I'd say they're pretty happy right now.
 
awmazz said:
PS. I assume MacsRgr8 is out hitting the turps in celebration right now. :)
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You said it, mate!

Whoa..... what a game... what a party!
:):):)

EDIT.... got a huge hangover, BTW... sheesh...
Regarding Suarez handball: He is the hero of Uruguay. A self sacrificing action which helps his team through to the semi's.
A huge cheat, and Ghana is robbed. The problem is that the punishment seems harsh enough: red card and penalty. But it was so close to the end that the red card doesn't feel that bad. Any team would be happy getting the red card and the penalty hoping the opponent misses, instead of the goal which would have sent the team home...
 
Nieval said:
Was just reading an article which had the following quote regarding FIFA's fair play code which states: "Winning is without value if victory has been achieved unfairly or dishonestly. Cheating is easy, but brings no pleasure". :rolleyes:

No pleasure? Tell that to the millions of Uruguayans who spent all night celebrating, I'd say they're pretty happy right now.
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lol.

diving is cheating, holding is cheating.. there are so many ways to cheat that singling out one is hypocrisy imho... blatant as it was if rooney had done this he'd be a selfless hero who sacrificed himself to win...

URUGUAY !!
 
pachyderm said:
lol.

diving is cheating, holding is cheating.. there are so many ways to cheat that singling out one is hypocrisy imho... blatant as it was if rooney had done this he'd be a selfless hero who sacrificed himself to win...

URUGUAY !!
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Doubt it, we're hyper critical of players. Any way that is a lame excuse. If it was Rooney had done it hes a selfless hero, but he didnt. All cheating in this world cup is making football crap, the diving, hand ball, bad tackles making the games seem pointless.
 
He didn't cheat, he committed a foul, and received exactly the correct punishment designated for that foul.

Everyone can sit up on their high horse and call him a cheater, but every single player in that situation would do exactly the same thing.

As someone pointed out earlier, it is the same as the goalkeeper taking the striker's legs away when he knows he is going to be rounded for a goal.

There is absolutely no way that a 'penalty goal' system would work. It would be open to too much controversy and referee interpretation.

I have much less of a problem with what Suarez did that all the conning of the referee that is going on, for example, player gets pushed in the chest, falls down holding his face, or player dives and rolls around on the floor when replays show he was never touched, players going to ground and then waving an imaginary card trying to get the defender booked, etc, etc.
 
Is Messi playing? Even if he is, I ask again, is Messi playing?

Edit - as soon as I ask that, he plays a ball through to Tevez. Who was offside. Since when does that stop him? ;)
 
argentina_flag_sml.jpg


Argentina! Argentina! Argentina!

I am conflicted because I went to a German K12 school growing up, played socccer and was practically raised by ze Germans but was raised in a household supporting Argentina (Dad was born is Buenos Aires) and then the US in that order. I guess I would just like to see a good, hard fought game where they both put it on the line and the best team wins... :cool:
 
Germany's playing really high up the park. There's huge space behind the back four for a well-timed long or through ball. Shame Argentina like the short pass balls.

Oh, and Tevez offside again, since when has that stopped him from claiming a goal? :D
 
loved how müller got booked for hands right 2 second after messi has just handled the ball quite similiar ;)

if germany wins this game, him missing out on the next game sure would be a huge blow
 
NOT looking good for Argentina...

What I was afraid was going to happen happened...Argentina under Maradona as coach really haven't gelled together as a team and they really haven't played together that much...A bunch of individually great players that just have not really been tested as a team until now?

Also their defense has been suspect all along and that really came out today.
 
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