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The 2011-2012 Football Thread

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Jaffa Cake said:
I'm not a particular fan of Hodgson's, but he's the best we've got by some margin – and I'm appalled at the reaction he's got from much of the media over the past few days. It seems as though the knives are out for him already, it appears simply because he's not Redknapp.
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I agree completely. Hodgson failed at Liverpool and made some clear mistakes, but he also managed the club during a nasty ownership situation, and this one dark patch should not overshadow his good work elsewhere. No other English manager can even approach his level of international mangerial experience, and his domestic record (apart from Liverpool) is, if not spectacular, at least solid. He appears (unlike Redknapp) to be a real student of the game in all its aspects. The press reaction smacks of sour grapes at being wrong in its Harry for England assumptions.

Jaffa Cake said:
We have more of an over entitled player problem...
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The remnants of the "Golden Generation" have got to go. And Rooney still needs to get his head sorted out.

Jaffa Cake said:
It seems to boil down to Barmby publicly stating he wanted the owners to match his ambition for the team – the Allams were apparently angered by him saying such things in the open. With him suspended – and a replacement Billy Davies apparently lined up in quick measure – the Allams then moved to remove his key ally, Pearson (Adam). It's worthwhile remembering that Pearson and Davies worked together at Derby County, and to say that their relationship is frosty is an understatement.

I'm hearing a few other things this evening which are unconfirmed but – if true – I'm going to be incredibly, incredibly pissed off about. :(
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To me it sounds like a huge overreaction by the Allams. Worse still, by getting rid of such a popular and decently successful manager they are really painting themselves into a corner - unless the replacement is clearly more successful than Barmby the owners will rightly get all of the blame for the consequences, and the fans will be unlikely to forgive them for it.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
..unless the replacement is clearly more successful than Barmby the owners will rightly get all of the blame for the consequences, and the fans will be unlikely to forgive them for it.
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There's been a hell of a backlash already – the natives are restless to put it mildly. Foolishly, the club have dragged their heels over season pass renewals – we've heard nothing at all about them yet.

If they'd have gone out the the time of the season they normally do, they'd have done so to a back drop of positivity – the team was playing well, the play-offs were a possibility, and there was a feel-good factor around Barmby and his young side. Now they'll be asking people to renew their passes at a time of uncertainty and anger. Not clever strategy from the supposedly astute businessmen.

Mind, the one good thing to come out of this was the local paper's headline this morning...

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Cap doffed. ;)
 
The English seem to have a particular love for puns, and their press are masters at it. Nice. :)

The whole thing makes little sense on the surface. If Barmby is guilty of rubbing the owners the wrong way, they have chosen a very clumsy and counterproductive way to respond.

To me it has the appearance of something that may have been simmering for some time though.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
The remnants of the "Golden Generation" have got to go.
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The telling thing – and it relates back to what daneoni was saying – is that the managers our supposed golden generation have had are all polar opposites in terms of their character and approach, but none of them have been good enough for the little darlings.

The first few players started coming through under Hoddle, but began to cement their places during Keegan's tenure. Keegan of course is noted for his passionate, patriotic approach, but he himself admitted it wasn't enough to succeed at international level. So we looked instead to Sven – the cool, calculating foreigner who could out-think any opponent, again it didn't work.

His assistant stepped up instead, and in McClaren we had a friend of the players, a popular, arm-around-the-shoulder coach to make the lads feel all warm and fuzzy about playing for their country. And when that didn't work out we replaced him with Capello, a strict disciplinarian who didn't suffer fools gladly.

All completely different managers, the end result was the same – failure. The one constant amongst the differing approaches (other than the unrealistic expectations whipped up by the media) is the same core group of players who always find some complaint to excuse their poor performances. The manager is too strict with them, or he doesn't work them hard enough, or his tactics aren't well thought out enough, or his formation is too rigid. There's always some excuse and it's never the players who are to blame, despite the fact that they're the ones who really need to take a long, hard look at themselves.

At least on this occasion the press are being sporting and are letting us know they think Hodgson is a failure as England manager before he's even picked his first squad. It might hit car flag sales this summer, mind. :rolleyes:
 
A witheringly accurate assessment. It's a simple process of elimination, really - the players are, as you say, the one constant.

And it does not bode well for Hodgson. Apart from waiting for them all to retire, the only solution is for the England manager to simply freeze out any player that doesn't shut up, keep his head down and do what he's told. But that will never happen with the current crop of players, and many of them will probably be around just long enough for Brazil 2014.

In other depressing news, ESPN did a survey of 14 top sports leagues (La Liga, EPL, NBA, MLB, NFL, Serie A, Bundesliga, IPL, NHL, MLS, NPB, SPL, AFL, CFL), showing each team's average annual payroll, weekly payroll, and total payroll. They also showed the change in rank over the last year.

Columbus Crew is ranked 278th of 278, down 27 places from last year. Our total payroll is $2,770,428 USD - or 1/30th of a Fernando Torres. :eek:

They didn't include the Championship, it would be interesting to see where the teams stacked up.
 
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Lord Blackadder said:
The English seem to have a particular love for puns, and their press are masters at it. Nice. :)
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I once entered a pun competition in a newspaper, I sent in 10 entries hoping to win, but alas no pun in ten did.

Roy will have the same effect as Harry would have, but will be out the door earlier. The press are already on his back, it's an unpopular choice. The FA have did it again.
 
Fuzzy14 said:
The press are already on his back, it's an unpopular choice.
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The thing is, the media are reporting it as such – but most people you speak to seem to generally approve of Hodgson's appointment, or at least recognise that he's the best bet out of a rather shallow pool of options.

The press talk about how popular Redknapp is with players and what a thoroughly nice chap he is, but it seems that no one has really offered any real examination of his actual suitability for the job beyond that. Being a manager 'players want to play for' doesn't really cut it when you're in a major tournament and have to work out a way to outclass teams with the quality of the Spanish or the Germans. Needless to say, you need a hell of a lot more about you than that.
 
Athletic_club_200px.png


Real Zaragoza 2 - O Athletic Club
Edu Oriol (28')
Apono (51')




...


GOALS
17 Llorente
6 Susaeta
4 Oscar
4 Martínez
4 Toquero
3 Amorebieta
2 Gabilondo
2 Muniaín
2 San Jose
1 Iturraspe
1 David Lopez
1 Herrera
1 Iraola
1 Aurtenetxe


ASSISTS
7 Susaeta
7 Herrera
6 Toquero
4 Oscar
3 Iraola
3 Muniaín
2 Pérez
1 Amorebieta
1 Llorente
1 Martinez
1 San Jose
1 Gomez


7th: 12-12-11
O5/O2/12
v
 
Jaffa Cake said:
The press talk about how popular Redknapp is with players and what a thoroughly nice chap he is, but it seems that no one has really offered any real examination of his actual suitability for the job beyond that.
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I agree, and the worst thing about that argument is that it really panders to the player power mentality. As we have just discussed, the players' attitudes are the biggest problem...so is going with their pet favorite the best idea?

The concept of bringing in Capello as a disciplinarian was a good one - but in the end he failed (for whatever reason) to really bust anybody's balls. What England needs is some good ol' Jock Wallace-style leadership (hands off that bloody sand!!).
 
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150pxdumbartonfclogosvg.png

Stirling Albion 1 - 2 Dumbarton
Scott Davieson (57')
Devon Jacobs (og 78')
Craig Dargo (90')

GOALS
14 Prunty
13 Agnew
7 Gilhaney
4 Lithgow
3 Walker
2 Lyden
2 McNiff
2 Graham
2 Dargo
1 McBride
1 Nicoll
1 Winters
1 McKinnon
1 Paterson


....
3rd: 16-7-12
O5/O5/2O12
v
MON 'EH SONS!

roll on Sons, roll on...
 
Lord Blackadder said:
What England needs is some good ol' Jock Wallace-style leadership (hands off that bloody sand!!).
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Aye ye didnae mess with Jock! I wonder if he imported that pile of sand into Leicester especially? It was based on a training routine he had at Rangers where he took the players to Gullane Dunes for pre-season training.

Jaffa Cake said:
The thing is, the media are reporting it as such – but most people you speak to seem to generally approve of Hodgson's appointment, or at least recognise that he's the best bet out of a rather shallow pool of options.
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Can't help but feel the pool would be deeper if the were willing to spend more money, although that didn't work with Capello.

My disparaging comments about Hodgson yesterday on Twitter weren't about the man himself, he does have a good record, it was directed more towards the FA who have just set up a no-win situation. The papers are already setting him up for a fall and you could write the script already.

Jaffa Cake said:
Being a manager 'players want to play for' doesn't really cut it when you're in a major tournament and have to work out a way to outclass teams with the quality of the Spanish or the Germans.
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This has been mentioned a couple of times about the Scottish team too, as if when they pull on the international jersey they aren't giving their all because somehow the manager hasn't managed to make them enthusiastic about it? I don't buy it myself.

At least the papers won't be running "we're going to win it" headlines on the run up to the finals, I just hope England win their first game otherwise we'll end up with Graham Taylor type headlines.
 
Fuzzy14 said:
At least the papers won't be running "we're going to win it" headlines on the run up to the finals, I just hope England win their first game otherwise we'll end up with Graham Taylor type headlines.
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For once, the country may not be overwhelmed with hype. So Roy has already had a positive influence. ;)

I just hope there isn't another 'armband controversy'. That has got to be the most stupid thing I've ever witnessed.
 
I still think the armband scandal is the most ridiculous - not because of Terry's misdeeds, but because of the whole over-hyping of the captaincy role. It is so incredibly pointless.
 
Oops, I think I may have missed this thread altogether as I assumed it referred to American football!!! So started my own thread on the FA Cup final which my team Liverpool is the underdog in.
 
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The problem for any English team is after 1966, the papers and the public thought that just turning up was enough to be sure of a win. Football was after all an English game.
All though the 70's and 80's England was a back water in football standards, the kick and rush schoolyard game was the norm. Ball control skills, were totally overlooked, but the press and the public, still believed that they had a divine right to win. This was also the period of major football violence, in both the domestic and European matches. Ultimately leading to a European ban in 1980's. But again the English press and public still believed they were in the right, and that the other countries had conspired against them.

Since the premiership, the standard of football in England has risen to great heights, but this is mainly to do with the foreign players.
The English press about this time found a new way of promoting football the WAGS .
wags0406_468x283.jpg


Suddenly the manager had less to say, promoting the brand football was more important the playing the game. Just think of Posh and Becks, the English team was seen as a PR opportunity.

With all this added pressure the managers were still expected to win against teams, that had come to the games to play football.

Erikson was much to close to the WAG culture. Capello tried to curb the WAGS, and nearly succeeded.
But still the English press and public held on to their unrealistic expectations.

Roy Hodgson has been given a very difficult job, not made any easier because the press still want Harry. More PR in it for them.
 
i think the English squad has numerous problems and the english press sure is a problem there: similiar to Steve Jobs they form a gigantic reality distortion field ;)

remember 2010 when Beckenbauer said early in the group phase of the tournament how "England is more or less playing 'kick and rush', and that they made a step back to the 'bad old times' " ? the british press nearly exploded in anger...

i highly recommend googling those old news reports today: it's pure comedy gold:

Matthew Upson
'We want to win matches, so we will play the style according to that.
'Whatever he thinks about our style of play is his opinion. If we are accused of kick and rush but win something, I don't think many people would complain.'
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What I find interesting is that a lot of soccer players on the top European teams tend to date or marry a lot of stunning looking women--especially models. Maybe those women are attracted to the salaries of the top players, which are often just as high as the very best American professional athletes?

(By the way, on our side of the pond, there's only one woman that fits into the British definition of WAG--Giselle Bündchen, the wife of New England quarter Tom Brady. And even then, she tends to keep a pretty low profile here in the USA.)
 
Fuzzy14 said:
It's ok, we burst that bubble in 1967.

And as for Hodgson, I recomend our American cousins have a Google at the disgraceful headline The Sun decided to run with today.
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I saw that and indeed it is a disgrace. What is/was the point of that. To have a bit of a laugh? :confused:

On more cheery news, Fulham finally wins at Anfield. Having watched it, it was a poor match. The Liverpool players and fans just weren't in to it. You could even here the players and managers yelling on the field.
 
Happybunny said:
The problem for any English team is after 1966, the papers and the public thought that just turning up was enough to be sure of a win.
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Not true – that's been the attitude since the 1870s. :p ;)

As for the Sun headline, it's worth remembering that this is the same newspaper that used its front page to demand Glen Hoddle's head on a plate after the then England manager made his controversial comments about the disabled. Seems a tad hypocritical.

Clearly, the media have decided that 'Woy' is going to be a national figure of fun, with his speech impediment and experience of 'only being able to manage little teams' – his chief crime being that he's been installed instead of their darling Redknapp. As I mentioned previously, the attitude the press have shown towards him is appalling and quite cringeworthy and I fear it's only going to get worse as we get towards the Euros. We won't win the competition of course, so we can expect the blame being heaped on Hodgson no matter what happens on the park.

'We lost the match, we got knocked out... but would things have been different with our 'Arry? He'd have fired the boys up, they'd have wanted to give the last drop of their blood for 'Arry's England... etc, etc.'

I might have to look into changing nationality this summer. Heeft u een logeerkamer, Happybunny? :eek:
 
Confuzzzed said:
Oops, I think I may have missed this thread altogether as I assumed it referred to American football!!! So started my own thread on the FA Cup final which my team Liverpool is the underdog in.
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My post about aliens stands.

Happybunny,

Backwater/Ball control skills:

It's true to say the mind-set tended to be the 'engine' over skill; talk of 'You can't play Hoddle and Robson.', and the treatment of Le Tissier - going as far as to make him a scapegoat after a qualifier against Italy. Still, skillful players managed to get into the team, and of course at club level - aided by UK foreigners, and a couple from the Netherlands - there was success against our European betters. Of the England teams, I think 1982 - injuries to Keegan and Brooking aside - just lacked a top striker.

Violence:

It's not the being punished, it's the fact supporters from the Netherlands, West Germany and Italy weren't angels and the political bias shown in handing out penalties.

---

Roy:

Pleased, and I'm glad it isn't Harry. The media in a huff about not crowning the king :rolleyes:. Agree it's down to the players; AVB's Chelsea against Greece 2004.

Cheers,
OW
 
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