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The 2011-2012 Football Thread
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Cardiff color change: yuck.
I'm not going to defend Hodgson specifically because I don't know what was said. But I think Ferdinand should have avoided airing his grievances publicly and at length. A simple "I am disappointed" would have been much more dignified than hints at a cabal or conspiracy.
Ferdinand's comments on Twitter are ostensibly his own words, so I think we can take those as the Gospel According to Rio. Ferdinand did not distance himself from his agent's comments, so I don't see what choice we have besides assuming he agrees with them. As for the stuff coming from 'sources', I'd take it with a grain of salt, but the quotes coming from that direction are certainly ugly. I hope they are just poppycock.
Leaving Micah Richards out is actually more baffling to me than the Ferdinand affair. Though, Richards' reaction to it was petulant so I can understand Hodgson's subsequent decision to leave him off the standby list. If a player gets huffy about not being picked he should be passed over in favor of a player who is willing to play and take instructions from the manager, regardless of whether that players starts regularly or not.
The bottom line is, England don't look like much of a contender, the press don't like Hodgson for England and the press need headlines. What we have here is the result of those forces at work.
I still think Roy deserves a free pass on this tournament. It's about as meaningless a Euro campaign as you can have. England fans should be focusing on the performances of the young players and ignoring the Gerrards and Ferdinands.
I'm not going to defend Hodgson specifically because I don't know what was said. But I think Ferdinand should have avoided airing his grievances publicly and at length. A simple "I am disappointed" would have been much more dignified than hints at a cabal or conspiracy.
Ferdinand's comments on Twitter are ostensibly his own words, so I think we can take those as the Gospel According to Rio. Ferdinand did not distance himself from his agent's comments, so I don't see what choice we have besides assuming he agrees with them. As for the stuff coming from 'sources', I'd take it with a grain of salt, but the quotes coming from that direction are certainly ugly. I hope they are just poppycock.
Leaving Micah Richards out is actually more baffling to me than the Ferdinand affair. Though, Richards' reaction to it was petulant so I can understand Hodgson's subsequent decision to leave him off the standby list. If a player gets huffy about not being picked he should be passed over in favor of a player who is willing to play and take instructions from the manager, regardless of whether that players starts regularly or not.
The bottom line is, England don't look like much of a contender, the press don't like Hodgson for England and the press need headlines. What we have here is the result of those forces at work.
I still think Roy deserves a free pass on this tournament. It's about as meaningless a Euro campaign as you can have. England fans should be focusing on the performances of the young players and ignoring the Gerrards and Ferdinands.
This is why I'm happy supporting Roy. Hopefully he is a long term appointment and you're right, simply including Ferdinand would be like a sticking plaster on a serious injury. The problem is despite the press (and the nation, if you believe the press) writing us off, they're still chastising him for his decisions, when it seems fairly clear he's looking to the future.
Personally, I don't see us qualifying out the group stage (there, I've said it!)
We never beat France or Sweden and we never beat teams that set out to simply defend (Ukraine). I predict we'll loose to France, and draw with Sweden and the Ukraine.
He'll be enjoying himself on Bridlington beach pre-season, I expect.
The thing is, if Bruce had been appointed after Pearson (Nigel) left last season, I think people would generally have been happy. But the treatment of Barmby and a number of other matters have left a lot of supporters feeling jaded about the owners and their intentions, and if Bruce is indeed their man one of his first tasks will be to win over the fans.
The concern with Bruce is of course that if a Premier League job comes calling we'll be going through this all over again...
From a footballing perspective, even a Ferdinand at the absolute peak of his powers would not appreciably increase England's chances for a serious run in this tournament. The same goes for Lampard, Terry, Gerrard etc....England have won nothing with them and probably never will, despite their obvious talents. The next generation is really where people should be looking. But everyone will be talking about Rio and Micah throughout.
The media are now positioning the Ferdinand Snub Affair as a racism controversy, plain and simple. Hodgson has a taget on his back so big it can be seen from space now. Has England's self-destructive side ever become more self-evident? Hodgson Out! Harry for England! This could make the Glen Hoddle controversy look like a lark.
I agree with your prediction for the tournament, with the exception that I can see England beating Ukraine. But even if they get past the group stage they are no match for the real contenders.
Oh my God. He's built like the English Gerard Depardieu. With a face to match.
After what was done to Barmby, I would be skeptical too if I was a Hull City supporter...and, as you say, Bruce could bail on the club at any time, leaving them back at square one looking for a manager. He's not going to be a long-term appointment. Barmby seemed the type of guy who was willing to stick with the club.
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Oh my God. He's built like the English Gerard Depardieu. With a face to match.
he he he he... he he he he he....
Lord Blackadder,
Hodgson/FA could clear this up by explaining 'footballing reasons', instead it's tumbleweed time. Harmony is a different category; for me the football part includes ability, performance, tactics... If they wanted peace to reign over the squad, why pick Terry? Leave both at home.
Fizzoid,
No problem with in form younger players, sadly injury is having a fine time. And remember, Barry is older than Carrick - okay, a few months, but still... If Henderson can pick it up for the Euros, good.
Cheers,
OW
Hodgson/FA could clear this up by explaining 'footballing reasons', instead it's tumbleweed time. Harmony is a different category; for me the football part includes ability, performance, tactics... If they wanted peace to reign over the squad, why pick Terry? Leave both at home.
Fizzoid,
No problem with in form younger players, sadly injury is having a fine time. And remember, Barry is older than Carrick - okay, a few months, but still...
If Henderson can pick it up for the Euros, good.Cheers,
OW
I agree on one thing - both Ferdinand and Terry should have been left out. England have sufficient cover at center back to do without them.
But I disagree that Hodgson can stop this juggernaut now. The papers have already laid out what they think to be a watertight case that Ferdinand is not only totally healthy and fit, but also the best center-back in the country by a mile. Regardless of whatever Hodgson sees wrong with Ferdinand, from a footballing perspective, the press have made his footballing arguments untenable before he's had a chance to make them and regardless of their merits. And if Terry had been left out, there would be a big scandal about leaving out the center back and captain of the Champions League Champions because he faces criminal charges. I'll bet the papers already had all those articles written and ready to go in the event Terry was dropped. It's a lose-lose scenario. Now Hodgson is either a racist or he's judging Terry guilty until proven innocent. What farce!
My theory - the press figure England will go nowhere in the tournament and are going with a headline-garnering Plan B: invent or massively inflate a huge off-the-pitch scandal and create scapegoats. Hodgson and the England squad are the sacrificial lambs on the altar of English football's self-loathing. It's going off admirably.
The only thing that would stop the madness would be if, against all odds, Hodgson and his rag-tag, Rio Ferdinand-less band of misfits were to somehow make it to the semifinals. I'm rooting for that, because it's a much more entertaining story than this cover-up rubbish.
Lord Blackadder,
Hodgson/FA could clear this up by explaining 'footballing reasons', instead it's tumbleweed time. Harmony is a different category; for me the football part includes ability, performance, tactics... If they wanted peace to reign over the squad, why pick Terry? Leave both at home.
Fizzoid,
No problem with in form younger players, sadly injury is having a fine time. And remember, Barry is older than Carrick - okay, a few months, but still...
Cheers,
OW
Well, Hodgson tends not to make too many comments to the press, but I would have thought the FA might have made a statement.
You're right about injury, sadly. We'll miss the likes of Bent, Wilshere, Cahill and even Lampard still would have a part to play.
Carrick may have been picked, but decided to rule himself out of the squad before Lampard and Barry were injured.
I'd have still probably gone with Richards though, as he can play RB and CB giving you extra cover, especially as Johnson has also struggled with injury
It turns out we won't get our first German Premier League coach after all. Steve Clarke is now tipped to get the job.
Re: Cardiff. There is precedent for teams changing their colors in the past, but in the case of Cardiff the reasons seem pretty shallow and short-sighted. If I was a Cardiff supporter I would not be happy about it.
They should have, certainly. It would not have prevented the present scandal but it might have lessened its magnitude.
Johnson isn't as bad as some portray him to be (naughty, takao!....but you have a point), but I too would have taken Richards, as he's more versatile.
They should have, certainly. It would not have prevented the present scandal but it might have lessened its magnitude.
Johnson isn't as bad as some portray him to be (naughty, takao!....but you have a point
), but I too would have taken Richards, as he's more versatile.
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Johnson isn't as bad as some portray him to be (naughty, takao!....but you have a point
well i don't think he is bad, he's quite good going forward and supporting attacks & crossing, he just quite often blunders in the back and often lacks anticipation & positioning ...
IMHO he would be better suited as wide sitting midfielder, while a more defensive right full back takes his part...
yes i know not everybody likes asymmetric setups but i think it would fit the english squad ... after all many countries left side is their stronger attack wing and thus cover that side might be a good idea .. especially with the english central defensive midfield not exactly being their biggest strength
Agreed. His transition from attack to defense is OK, not great, but I feel he is particularly weak when defending his own box. Actually, now that Dirk Kuyt is gone, it would be interesting if Liverpool bought a more densive center back and pushed Johnson up to the right wing spot.
Asymmetric setups exist only because it is usually impossible to build a completely balanced formation due to limitations in player talent and money to buy talent (or in the case of an international side, the limitations of the national talent pool). But they can work perfectly well. It is not necessary for the left and right sides of a squad to play exactly the same way - but usually asymmetry also means that one side of the team is weaker than the other in either attack or defense. This, of course, may present tactical opportunities for an opponent.
True that. Kyut was for me the one of the very important characters in the liverpool squad over the last years, because of his spirit,stamina and impressive work rate not only keeps opposite defenders busy but he also helps with closing spaces on the defensive
such wingers/strikers are seriously underrated (Olic is a similar character).. such a player can help a lot in keeping pressure away from the own team
in today's modern football it has become essential for a striker to work on the defensive just like it has become normal for a central defender to have a strong passing game
that can be seen in an awful lot of squads: in the Portugese squad with Contraeu and Ronaldo on the left side it's quite obvious
The strong german wing nearly always happen to be the one Lahm is currently playing on, because they simply can't find another fullback of the same quality
He was definitely underrated. Kuyt is not a flashy player, was not successful as a pure striker but his work rate is incredible and that makes a big difference. By being so active and well-positioned, he was often in the right place at the right time. Liverpool will certainly miss him.
If he can't stop the juggernaut, he had the chance to prevent it; the press conference after the squad announcement was the opportunity for him to make his argument, but his response to the questioning of 'footballing reasons' lacks credibility. Sure some papers like having a go, but better from Hodgson and there wouldn't be the groundswell.
Edit - Damn pollen; took a break mid-post and time has marched on - your note about magnitude.
Rooting for England; with Joe Hart looking like he's had kicking lessons from Bosnich, what can go wrong?
Fizzoid,
Injury; add Smalling - though he fell for an old trick at the Etihad - and Walker.
Carrick; apparently he has always been available to play in an emergency - done his time sitting on the bench at tournaments and declined the offer to do it again.
Richards; he can jump in a bit heavy, but I don't think he's worse than Johnson, and as you mention, he can play CB. Even if Ferguson does it, the Jones at RB thing
.Cheers,
OW
I think the big problem here is that for once, most England fans have genuinely low expectations and the papers don't know how to deal with it.
England's best hope is that people get bored with Ferdinandgate (I thought of it first, Sky
) and just watch the blasted tournament. Maybe Terry will get sent off for kneeing someone in the groin off the ball at a critical moment and everyone will forget about The Snubs.
...But talking about Glen Johnson leads us back to the Micah Richards Snub.
Laurent Blanc has weighed in:
after which he later added
Le Gamesmanship.
Laurent Blanc has weighed in:
after which he later added
Le Gamesmanship.
...But talking about Glen Johnson leads us back to the Micah Richards Snub.
...
...Or:
http://www.clickliverpool.com/sport...-maxi-rodriguez-set-for-argentina-return.html
Seemed to play well in the games he got last season. Expected - age, games, home - still, another decent player going/gone. Who is coming in?
Blanc = ex Manchester United, bound to say that.
Cheers,
OW
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...Or:
http://www.clickliverpool.com/sport...-maxi-rodriguez-set-for-argentina-return.html
Seemed to play well in the games he got last season. Expected - age, games, home - still, another decent player going/gone. Who is coming in?
Blanc = ex Manchester United, bound to say that.
I doubt you're going to see too many Man U ex-players defending Hodgson, that's for sure.
As for Maxi - good player. He didn't score a ton of goals, but overall I thought he was a real asset to the club and when he did score goals they were usually worth seeing.
I'm not really concerned about the departures; it's not like we're dismantling a title-winning squad here for one thing, and for another Rogers is going to have his own theories about what kind of players he wants. So these departures give us room on the roster for him to bring in his own men. Whether FSG will be willing to loosen their purse strings is another matter.
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Nothing official about Bruce yet, but there's one very strong indication that he's about to take the City job his son Alex has in the past 24 hours started following half-a-dozen Hull-based journos on Twitter.
I KNEW I was missing 2 CB's I just couldn't remember who they were
In the spirit of putting together the 2014 WC team, I'd have gone with Walker instead of Terry
It would be interesting to hear England Coach Gary Neville's thoughts on the matterI doubt you're going to see too many Man U ex-players defending Hodgson, that's for sure.
It would be interesting to hear England Coach Gary Neville's thoughts on the matter
One very suggestive fact about the whole affair is that Ferguson has been unusually silent. Not a peep from a man who is not known for his reticence.
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