The 2012-2013 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

You can't take your foot off the gas for one minute against Real Madrid, as City just learned to their cost. A real late flurry of goals there.

Milan drew with Anderlecht, I think they are already in big trouble.

Interestingly Lahm said, Klinsmann was stupid as a coach, too, because the players had to develop their own tactics, all Klinsmann did, was cheering them up, something he must have learned in America. Sorry just a joke referring to the endless american willingness to fight.

I was very interested about Lahm's quote when it came out since Klinsmann is in charge of the USA national team now. This article is a very interesting look into the tactical history of the modern USA team. A core characteristic of the USA was the "run fast, try hard" mentality. When combined with the few creative players we've produced over the years, it did get results. USA has always been a mentally strong team in terms of not giving up and showing strong athleticism; mental focus, creativity and technical play have always been our weak areas (though things are better now than they've ever been).

Klinsmann has been different. So far, I have not seen any evidence of a lack of tactical thought from Klinsmann, but he has changed the way we play. Under Bruce Arena and Bob Bradley, we focused on a lightning fast transition from defense to attack, conceding possession in exchange for a small number of counterattacks per game. We also tried to play wide at times. Klinsmann has tried to introduce more posession and more patient offensive buildups. The big change is that we now play with three defensive midfielders, and the team has less width.

 

[twietee]

Lahm is the embodiment of opportunism, I wouldn't read too much into any statement of him. There is a lot of hatred going on against Klinsmann in Germany (or people make rather fun of him) and I'm not quite sure where it's coming from. He had a bad year in Munich, but was lacking any backup management wise + had no real influence onto any transfers as far as I know.
Coaching the German N11, he got Löw as his assistant, who at that point was more or less a nobody, and made some really straight forward structural changes regarding the team itself as well as the (even more important) structures behind the curtain. Klinsmann being straight forward ****ed off a lot of people backstage. Not to mention people hated that he didn't move with his whole family back to Germany.
When he moved on to Munich, who were at point zero at that moment after Magath, he had nothing less but to create a whole new philosophy out of nothing, which didn't work out (immediately) and he got sort of kicked out big time.
Good for him that he's happy now.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Interesting points.

I think he is a good fit for the USA right now. He is charismatic, easygoing with the press, articulate (and speaks excellent English), and is a "big picture" guy rather than a detail man. I think this is what we need, because the sport is still trying to create an identity in this country and US Soccer is also trying to build a more unified system of talent development, training and better organize the professional league pyramid.

Klinsmann was ultimately brought in to influence all these things rather than simply coach the national team. I don't see him as a technician, but more of a leadership figure who puts the right people in place, establishes a philosophy and sets out broad goals. He will need to prodoce results on the pitch too, however, and that is where he is most likely to be criticized. Football fans are very demanding and possess little patience. But so far we have done well overall. Beating Mexico alone has sealed his place in US football history.

 

[twietee]

Klinsmann was ultimately brought in to influence all these things rather than simply coach the national team. I don't see him as a technician, but more of a leadership figure who puts the right people in place, establishes a philosophy and sets out broad goals. He will need to prodoce results on the pitch too, however, and that is where he is most likely to be criticized. Football fans are very demanding and possess little patience. But so far we have done well overall. Beating Mexico alone has sealed his place in US football history.

Exactly! See, 2006 is called the Sommermärchen in Germany. Heck they even brought out a flick to the movies about it. Everybody loves it. But him being kind of globetrotter they got alienated out of a sudden. Now it's like: "Nah, he didn't do anything except grinning his way through. It was all Löw from the beginning".
For example he kicked out Kahn and brought Lehmann because of his 'modern' anticipation. That was almost a sacrilege back then and fired back as soon as he started losing.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Exactly! See, 2006 is called the Sommermärchen in Germany. Heck they even brought out a flick to the movies about it. Everybody loves it. But him being kind of globetrotter they got alienated out of a sudden. Now it's like: "Nah, he didn't do anything except grinning his way through. It was all Löw from the beginning".
For example he kicked out Kahn and brought Lehmann because of his 'modern' anticipation. That was almost a sacrilege back then and fired back as soon as he started losing.

It definitely seems that some historical revisionism is going on in Germany. Löw is obviously a top manager (he seemed to have attracted very little criticism up to the point when Germany were eliminated from Euro 2012), but Klinsmann seems to have done a lot of good as Germany manager. His failed spell at Bayern seems to have really hurt his legacy.

An interesting point about his USA career is that, with Germany, he did not have to qualify for the World Cup. Now he is engaged in a real qualification campaign with USA, against tricky teams he is not terribly familiar with (at least compared with European teams).

It's still fairly early, but so far Klinsmann seems to be a solid, if conservative, tactician. But in a knockout competition you can rarely afford to be too aggressive with your tactics (unless you are Marcelo Bielsa).

 

[twietee]

It definitely seems that some historical revisionism is going on in Germany. Löw is obviously a top manager (he seemed to have attracted very little criticism up to the point when Germany were eliminated from Euro 2012), but Klinsmann seems to have done a lot of good as Germany manager. His failed spell at Bayern seems to have really hurt his legacy.

It's still fairly early, but so far Klinsmann seems to be a solid, if conservative, tactician. But in a knockout competition you can rarely afford to be too aggressive with your tactics (unless you are Marcelo Bielsa).

He may have learned a thing or two since his time overseas, too. And about the revisionism in Germany:
Two things: I believe that part of his status here is due to him being / giving the impression of being an absolutely independent, nonchalant sunnyboy. People don't dig that attitude here.
He got the maximum out of the German team at his time, Löw (until now) clearly didn't achieve that (2010 was great but luckily ARG and ENG were no real competition) with much better players.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I don't think that his attitude will be a problem here (especially in sunny California). But Americans are also very results-driven: it doesn't matter how you do it, just get it done. Time will tell if it works out, but I think American football fans are also willing to have a certain amount of patience, because we know that we are not a top footballing power. But we firmly believe we will be some day, and what we want to see from Klinsmann is some progress in that direction.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

For some reason that I can't quite fathom, our office's token Leeds United fan is unusually quiet this morning.

Heh.

 

[Fizzoid]

Surprised he hasn't called in sick (as a parrot)

Great game between Real and City last night. I was hoping City would win it, although I'd say Real probably just deserved it. They battered City for most of the first half, but just couldn't find the net. Hopefully City learnt a few important lessons.

Joe Hart seemed close to tears in the post match interview, criticising the team for throwing away the lead, and then eventually loosing the game. Criticism that Mancini isn't too happy about

 

[pachyderm]

Surprised he hasn't called in sick (as a parrot)

Great game between Real and City last night. I was hoping City would win it, although I'd say Real probably just deserved it. They battered City for most of the first half, but just couldn't find the net. Hopefully City learnt a few important lessons.

Joe Hart seemed close to tears in the post match interview, criticising the team for throwing away the lead, and then eventually loosing the game. Criticism that Mancini isn't too happy about

imho, from what i just read in your link, hart didn't say anything that bad.

 

[Fizzoid]

No, it wasn't that bad, just stuff like they shouldn't be loosing games like that when they're 2-1 up, no matter who they're playing.

He didn't say anything during the interview, but I don't think he was too happy with Kompany for not heading the ball clear for the 3rd goal

 

[twietee]

Think Mancini's answer has to be seen in context. Thought the reporter spinned Hart's response a bit during the interview hence the response. The usual media-thing I'd suspect.

 

[Happybunny]

Ajax went down 1 - 0 in Dortmund.

Ajax are out of their league in this group, although they played reasonably last night.

This morning there were a lot of smiling faces, at least in this part of the Netherlands. (The loathing that PSV has for Ajax is quite something)

 

[takao]

do the german teams have a champions league penalty trauma ? both Dortmund and Schalke missed one ...

the group of death is still far from over .. i think both Ajax and Man city still have a shot ... both Dortmund and Real will very likely blunder more than once

City though has to take extra care not to underestimate Dortmund/Ajax...

 

[twietee]

do the german teams have a champions league penalty trauma ? both Dortmund and Schalke missed one ...

Not to mention Munich's last game, forgot actually how many penalties they've missed...

 

[Lord Blackadder]

For some reason that I can't quite fathom, our office's token Leeds United fan is unusually quiet this morning.

Hull City are racing up the table! Poor Colin. At first I was disappointed to see that he sent Crew alumnus Robbie Rogers off on loan to Stevenage, but now I see it was an act of mercy, to avoid the taint of having played at Leeds.

the group of death is still far from over .. i think both Ajax and Man city still have a shot ... both Dortmund and Real will very likely blunder more than once

City though has to take extra care not to underestimate Dortmund/Ajax...

I think the group is still pretty open, but as you say City will need to be much more deadly against Dortmund and Ajax if they want to be confident of advancing.

 

[daneoni]

Brilliant second goal by Oscar.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Brilliant second goal by Oscar.

A decent hit.

It's a game Chelsea should have won, though the result doesn't really hurt their campaign. No surprises really so far in the champions league. Or at least no upsets. Unless you count Celtic managing a scoreless draw against Benfica an upset.

 

[twietee]

The German teams really lost their magic penalty wise. Sad thing, was always kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

But I can live with that as long as they keep winning during regular time anyway.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Columbus 1-0 Chivas USA

This was a must-win game to keep us in the hunt for the final playoff spot in the east, against bottom-of-the-league Chivas USA. Columbus fans endured an agonizing 89-minute wait for the solitary goal. Usual suspects Higauin and Arrieta combined to produce a nice chance that was blocked by the Chivas keeper but fell at the feet of Columbus forward Justin Meram, who blasted the ball home (and got booked for taking off his shirt)

Not a great performance but we got the win and the clean sheet.

 

[2020mike]

Columbus 1-0 Chivas USA

This was a must-win game to keep us on track for the final playoff spot in the east, against bottom-of-the-league Chivas USA. Columbus fans endured an agonizing 89-minute wait for the solitary goal. Usual suspects Higauin and Arrieta combined to produce a nice chance that was blocked by the Chivas keeper but fell at the feet of Columbus forward Justin Meram, who blasted the ball home (and got booked for taking off his shirt)

Not a great performance but we got the win and the clean sheet.

It will be interesting come Saturday to see if Columbus can cut it against a surging Fire team.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

It will be interesting come Saturday to see if Columbus can cut it against a surging Fire team.

I can't see us winning in Chicago. They are flying right now. A draw would make me very happy.

There are 5 games left for us, 6 for DC. Both Columbus and DC have to go to Chicago before the playoffs start, and Columbus also goes to DC, who are just one point behind us with a game in hand. Basically we need to equal or better their performance in Chicago (though we play them first), and then at least draw in DC to maintain our slender lead.

Houston are one point in front of us but have some fixture congestion, with two Champions League matches to play during the league run-in. So they could run into fatigue issues and it's possible they could miss the playoffs if they lose a couple matches.

Frankly I think this is all irrelevant in the end though, because I think the league will be won by one of the Western Conference teams. But I'd like to see Columbus make the playoffs.

 

[pachyderm]

No, it wasn't that bad, just stuff like they shouldn't be loosing games like that when they're 2-1 up, no matter who they're playing.

He didn't say anything during the interview, but I don't think he was too happy with Kompany for not heading the ball clear for the 3rd goal

he is right! on both accounts!

I can't see us winning in Chicago. They are flying right now. A draw would make me very happy.

There are 5 games left for us, 6 for DC. Both Columbus and DC have to go to Chicago before the playoffs start, and Columbus also goes to DC, who are just one point behind us with a game in hand. Basically we need to equal or better their performance in Chicago (though we play them first), and then at least draw in DC to maintain our slender lead.

Houston are one point in front of us but have some fixture congestion, with two Champions League matches to play during the league run-in. So they could run into fatigue issues and it's possible they could miss the playoffs if they lose a couple matches.

Frankly I think this is all irrelevant in the end though, because I think the league will be won by one of the Western Conference teams. But I'd like to see Columbus make the playoffs.

UP THE CREW!

 

[Fizzoid]

Well, as the FA don't seem to act over the need for grass roots football, and better youth policies, Apple have decided to act on their behalf!

This is apparently one of the bugs/features of Apple Maps:

A search for Manchester United Football Club directs users to Sale United Football Club, a community team for ages five and above.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

This is getting outrageous...neither Liverpool nor Young Boys are bothering to defend tonight.

EDIT: 5-3 To Liverpool in the end. Not much you can learn from that match, but it's good to see younger players getting a runout and showing some potential.