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At face value Suarez said "Black" in anger which is offensive. Ok, I get that.

But there MIGHT be some ambiguity there (especially in context). But ignore the ambiguity aspect because it will muddle things up for the next part of my argument.

What there is very little ambiguity about is someone saying ***********. Which is worse? Or not? I don't know.

So why does one get an 8 game ban and the other a 4 game ban?

Someone said it's to do with the frequency of using the abusive term. In which case presumably Suarez should have been banned at least 20 games. If you follow that logic. So in only punishing him with 8 games, the FA admitted there may have been some ambiguity? Or maybe it was because the FA's report actually admitted that Evra was not a credible witness, and in fact had Suarez kept his mouth shut he may have got away with it as it wasn't caught on camera.

It's all very confusing. And leave the whole race thing in a massive muddle going forward.
 
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So why does one get an 8 game ban and the other a 4 game ban?

Thought it was consensus here to be confuzzed about that. :D

My not so educated guess tells me: the lobby of the legendary English player BJT was bigger in England. That's all - gives Suarez at least a first hand experience of racism at work. :rolleyes:
 
...maybe it was because the FA's report actually admitted that Evra was not a credible witness
Not so – from the Independent Regulatory Commission's report;

"Mr Evra was a credible witness. He gave his evidence in a calm, composed and clear way."

Someone said it's to do with the frequency of using the abusive term.
It may be a factor, and there's also the fact that Suarez was charged with breaking two rules – E3(1) and E3(2) – and Terry only one – E3(2). We could perhaps therefore see it as a four match ban for each offence. But one thing confuses me about that – here are the rules in question;

Rule E3(1): "A Participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour."

Rule E3(2): "In the event of any breach of Rule E3(1) including a reference to any one or more of a person's ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, faith, gender, sexual orientation or disability (an "aggravating factor"), a Regulatory Commission shall consider the imposition of an increased sanction."


Surely in order to have broken the second rule, Terry must also have broken the first?
 
Thought it was consensus here to be confuzzed about that. :D

Touche! But not enough Zzzzzzzz's though. Which is rapidly where I am headed with this whole process. I am old fashioned. Calling someone racist is a BIG thing. It's not something you want to be labelled with. Also I understand on the field of play competitive professional sports people will try almost anything to get an advantage. The margins are that thin. So it's OK for Evra to run around calling Suarez's mother a whore. Or his sister. Or his wife (which is what Gerrard has endured all his career).

I am going to defend Terry here (much as I abhore the player). If he's been found not guilty in a court of law, why is the FA sticking its ore in (and yes, I understand the difference of beyond reasonable doubt and balance of probability)? But this is big. It's labelling someone racist.

Same with Suarez. The guy is labelled for life. Is he racist? Don't think so. His paternal grand-father is coloured for crying out loud.

Political correctness gone crazy.

Decent analysis here

http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/12/suarez-is-not-a-racist/

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Not so – from the Independent Regulatory Commission's report;

"Mr Evra was a credible witness. He gave his evidence in a calm, composed and clear way."

That's just the BBC website.

There are inconsistencies in Evra’s testimony. In his evidence, Evra states that he told the players after the game that Suarez said he kicked him “porque tu eres negro” (“because I am black”). None of the four Spanish speaking Manchester United players recalled Evra saying this in their witness testimonies. In the FA’s report, they confirm this is the case but state that it is possible the players simply forgot he said it. They do not point to the other possibility: that he did not say it. Under this scenario, it could be used as evidence that Evra is an unreliable witness.



There were four pieces of evidence presented by Suarez’s lawyer to the FA that suggest Evra is an unreliable witness. The interesting one is the coin toss. Here is the transcript of that incident:


Mr Marriner explained that he used a FIFA coin which is blue on one side and yellow on the other. He asked Mr Evra, as the visiting captain, to call the colour. Mr Marriner tossed the coin, it came down yellow, and he awarded it to Steven Gerrard who elected to stay in their current ends. Manchester United had kick off. Mr Evra remonstrated that he had called correctly but, Mr Marriner said, he had not. Mr Evra then spoke to Ryan Giggs about it, and Mr Marriner walked over to Mr Evra to assure him that he (Mr Marriner) had got it right. Mr Evra’s evidence was that when such a coin was used, he always called yellow given that the alternative, blue, is a Manchester City colour, which he would never call. The toss came down yellow and so Mr Evra knew that he had won it. He particularly wanted to change ends at the start, he explained to the referee that he had called yellow, and why he had done so. Mr Evra was angry but the referee did not change his mind.”


Evra either could not remember what colour he chose or lied about it afterwards. This at best questions his reliability as a witness and at worst suggests he is willing to lie to gain an advantage. Crucially, he reacted outwardly far more to the coin toss than he did in the goalmouth when he claimed that Suarez used the word “negro” five times. Had that really been the case, surely Evra’s reaction would have been much stronger?


Another inconsistency is Evra’s use of the term “ten times” to describe how many times Suarez allegedly said “negro”. Evra has retracted this claim and said it was a “figure of speech”. Really?

What about previous form? Suarez has no history of any form of racism and is an ambassador for racial equality. Evra, on the other hand, has been at the centre of a racism scandal in the recent past. It was alleged that ground staff at Chelsea racially abused Evra in 2008. The allegation was thrown out and here is how the panel described Evra’s testimony:“We find Mr Evra’s description exaggerated… There was no good reason for Mr Evra to have run over and barged Mr Griffin as he did. It was unnecessarily and gratuitously aggressive of Mr Evra… Mr Evra’s suggestion that he was concerned about Mr Strudwick’s safety is farfetched. They were two grown men having an apparently strong verbal disagreement but no more than that. The clear implication by Mr Evra that Mr Griffin’s pitchfork gave some reason for concern about Mr Strudwick’s safety is ridiculous…We find Mr Evra’s account exaggerated and unreliable. It is an attempt to justify a physical intervention by him which cannot reasonably be justified…”


Compare this to the conclusions drawn by the panel in the Suarez case:


“We considered it improbable that Mr Evra would act in such a dishonest way in order to damage the reputation of a fellow professional whose footballing skills he admires, with whom he had had no previous run-ins, and who he does not think is a racist.”


There is therefore evidence to suggest that both Suarez and Evra made statements that were not 100% true during this case, and that Evra has a history of doing this.

Evra’s account as “the truth”, the FA have concluded that Suarez’s entire evidence can be completely discredited whilst the inconsistencies in Evra’s testimony, and past, can be ignored.
 
In the end, I'm content to let the Suarez matter rest. I'm not happy about the way the case was handled, and Evra is no saint - but Suaraz said what he said, and he shouldn't have said it - it's as simple as that.

Now, when people brand Suarez and Terry as racists over all this, frankly it says more about the people labeling them than it does about Terry and Suarez. The former is a sleazy jerk and the latter a hot-head, but they cannot be labelled racists just because of these incidents. England as a nation is obviously struggling to deal with this phenomenon.

I think Liverpool supporters are right to question the way the FA has handled things, but I think they should refrain from becoming conspiracy theorists over it - even if there are perhaps cultural factors playing a role in why things turned out a bit differently in the two cases. Jaffa's point about Suraez's repeated use of the insult is also a valid one, even if one might dispute the even handedness of the FA in the eventual punishments.

The bottom line is, every decent person wants to see bigotry stamped out. That should be the message.
 
For Christ sakes, give it up. Suarez behaved badly and was duly punished for it. You look petty and vindictive to keep bringing it up so vociferously, and it's going to backfire by bringing Suarez' actions back into the spotlight. I'm sure the player himself wants to forget it and move on.
 
...bringing Suarez' actions back into the spotlight.

Fergie's already done that for us.

Ferg said:
But the fact [Terry] got a four-game ban, he may consider that is quite lenient considering Luis Suárez got eight. It is time to move on and so should the game.

;) (I agree with you though - Suarez has been punished, revisiting the affair further is pointless and will solve nothing)

I do think it's important to "move on" in the sense that we don't continue to punish the guilty at the expense of tackling the real problem behind the scandals.
 
That was a loooooong time coming. Blackburn haven't always looked terrible under Kean. But the situation between him, the fans, and Venky's has always been a train wreck. And they were never consistently playing good enough. The situation could get worse before it gets better.
 
For Christ sakes, give it up.

It's ironic that is the exact same advice we have been getting for 23 years. Suarez is one of our own and we feel he's been harshly treated. Been labelled a racist. Every week. In the Olympics playing for Uruguay he was booed (I was there). His kids are not been taken to the games for fears of what they might hear the opposition fans calling their father. All on the word of one man. One that is reliably shown himself to be a prat. And a known trouble maker (cf. Chelsea coach who nearly lost his job over unsubstantiated allegations by said man and episodes in France). It really did come down to the word of one man against another. Read the verdict man. I have. If that was your brother, would you just give up?! For the sake of political correctness?!
 
Always the victim, it's never your fault. :roll eyes:

(Yes, being "politically correct" apparently is for dupes. If you're so against it, I suggest you subscribe to The Sun.)
 
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Always the victim, it's never your fault. :roll eyes:

(Yes, being "politically correct" apparently is for dupes. If you're so against it, I suggest you subscribe to The Sun.)

If you ever ever say that to a Liverpool fan when you are not hiding behind a keyboard, you should really prepare yourself for a black eye. Conversation ended. You have crossed a line.
 
The Bundesliga club Hoffenheim was struck by a huge tragedy yesterday as one of their players, Boris Vukcevic(22), was critically injured in a car accident. His situation is critical and it is yet unknown, if he will make it. :(

I know this is a very PL and MSL heavy part of the forum, but I thought I'd post it nonetheless.
 
I know this is a very PL and MSL heavy part of the forum, but I thought I'd post it nonetheless.

More Bundesliga news is always a good thing - though in this case the news itself is far from good. Here's hoping the young man's situation improves.

According to Bild, Vukcevic may have been speeding in his C63 AMG when he crossed the center line and struck a large truck "nearly head-on". He's been placed in an artificial coma and undergone emergency surgery for unspecified but obviously life-threatening injuries. The photos of the car are horrifying.
 
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Do we have any native Spanish speakers on here? Can anyone tell me what negrito means?

Little Black person, i don't think it's an insult, then again every word can be an insult depending on context, then again we don't have much of a black population here in Guatemala, so what do i know....
 
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Little Black person, i don't think it's an insult, then again every word can be an insult depending on context, then again we don't have much of a black population here in Guatemala, so what do i know....

Thank you. This actually brings me nicely to the point that racism cuts both ways. And illustrates the inconsistency of the FA's actions. How else can you explain the FA only fining Rio Ferdinand (mixed race) £50k for calling Ashley Cole (mixed race) "choc ice" which I believe means brown on the outside, white on the inside. Which I believe can be offensive. Given that Ashley Cole and Ferdinand are not on best terms (AC was character witness for JT) perhaps it was an insult. So is it ok for a black player to racially incite but not a white one? Where's the consistency dear old FA?
 
Hoping Everton can get 3 points out of South Hampton today and continue there good form. 43 minutes till kick off on Fox Soccer 2 Go.
 
That's what's irritating about it. We gifted Chelsea the 3pts they were by no means amazing and were there for the taking. Starting to give up on Giroud, which means unless we get a decent striker in we will always come up short in the big games.
 
Bad luck to the Arsenal. I think its too early to give up on Giroud though - he'll get better with time.

When Louis gets a pen, we'll have a party. Another blatant penalty denied but he scored 3 anyway

He won't win penalties as much as other players do because he tends to go down easily. I love watching the guy play but he needs to cool that element of his game. Of course the guy has been totally vilified, but he still has all the tools to shove that talk down opponents' throats on the pitch.

Suarez is an absolute master of the nutmeg though. He does it all day, regardless of the quality of the opponent, and I love it.

Finally Liverpool get a just reward for another good performance. Granted it was not the best opponent but we played well and scored five. If we keep playing the way we have been we'll be fine this season and probably finish in the Europa League places again. I'd like to see a little more stoutness at the back though. With Enrique off form and Agger gone we'll be a bit threadbare in defense.
 
With Enrique off form and Agger gone we'll be a bit threadbare in defense.

Agger actually played today, didn't he? What do you mean "gone"?

Also on full-back cover, wonder whatever happened to Flannagan for right back cover. Seems that this Wisdom kid jumped ahead of him in the queue.
 
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Clint Dempsey with the winner for Spurs at Old Trafford. What a day to open his account...

P.S. Why was Koscielny started in place of Mertesacker for Arsenal? Was he hurt?
 
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