Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The 2013-14 NFL football season thread
- Thread starter einmusiker
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Tebow is not the problem but the distraction that comes around his faith and display of it and the obvious female fans he has. At the end of the day, he has the potential to be a good player (as he showed with the Broncos and in college) and Tom Brady can't stay on a top level forever. Under the vert best conditions Tom can play a couple of more years and if things to right, he can ride off into the sunset with two late career Super Bowl victories the same way John Elway did.
But in the very near future, whether Tom gets those wins or not, he will be at the end of his career and New England will have to move forward. Tebow can get this done and will probably do a lot better once all the hype dies down. I would rather have a Tebow with his "faith" than a Ben Roethlisberger and his issues. What a Cowboys or Niners two decade type dynasty the Patriots can have if they eventually build Tebow into another elite quarterback. I don't think New England has any problems here and I would play Brady full tilt until he can't do it anymore on his level and then quickly put in Tebow. The Niners put in Steve Young at starter when Montana was in his mid/late 30s and slightly declining and moved on and it paid off with a decently long run with Steve Young and a Super Bowl and hall of fame numbers. A good team does not play loyalty to any one player or coach but moves on with best foot forward no matter what fans they piss off. The Pats were smart and it will likely pay off for another decade.
But in the very near future, whether Tom gets those wins or not, he will be at the end of his career and New England will have to move forward. Tebow can get this done and will probably do a lot better once all the hype dies down. I would rather have a Tebow with his "faith" than a Ben Roethlisberger and his issues. What a Cowboys or Niners two decade type dynasty the Patriots can have if they eventually build Tebow into another elite quarterback. I don't think New England has any problems here and I would play Brady full tilt until he can't do it anymore on his level and then quickly put in Tebow. The Niners put in Steve Young at starter when Montana was in his mid/late 30s and slightly declining and moved on and it paid off with a decently long run with Steve Young and a Super Bowl and hall of fame numbers. A good team does not play loyalty to any one player or coach but moves on with best foot forward no matter what fans they piss off. The Pats were smart and it will likely pay off for another decade.
Last edited:
Since when does a 3rd string QB throwing a single pass in a mini camp warrant the AP Press publishing a photo/story on their twitter?
You were right the first time, he's a circus act. And all the two-word answers Belichick can give in the world doesn't change the fact that he's a total distraction.
I understand the "Believe in Belichick" thing, and I am normally 100% willing to go that route, but I'm sorry, this one is a total head scratcher for me from a football standpoint, and from a personal standpoint, I abhor it. I mean, I hope your prediction is correct, but even then, not worth it.
----------
Tim Tebow is not a good QB. Tim Tebow is not a good QB. Tim Tebow is not a good QB. He will never be an elite QB in this league.
He will never, in any century, any scenario, any situation, be a "good" replacement for Tom Brady.
The only thing Belichick will turn him into is an elite clip board holder, if he makes the team.
I'm not sure anyone out there has the ability to do this. Tom is definitely one of the best to ever play the QB position. It will be hard for any player to follow him up as the Pats QB.
Some said the same thing about Montana. It seemed, even after a long time in the NFL and four rings, that it would never be possible to have anything left of a team after he left. We got Steve Young and had a lot of good years with him. While it's rare for a team to follow a great QB with another one, it does happen and Green Bay had a great guy holding the clipboard. I just don't know which Tebow will show up, the guy who could make things happen like the version of him from Denver or the complete disappointment of the version of him from the Jets.
Over the next few years it will be interesting to see what Tebow does for the team and maybe all he will ever do is hold a clipboard. New England has other QBs and no one really knows how they will do until they are one day thrust into the starter position. Who thought that NE would follow a pretty decent QB in Bledsoe with somebody amazing like Brady? How high in the draft was Brady?
Man, you've got some time on your hands to go back and search for posts I don't even remember writing.
If anyone can control the circus, it's Bill.
You're going way overboard here. There is no way in **** Tebow will be Brady's replacement. He's just not a good NFL QB. He never will be. If Brady's replacement is even on the roster, it's Mallett. But there's a better chance of Tebow being cut in training camp than there is him making the opening week roster.
If he even does make the team, it's going to be because Bill thinks he can be useful as a TE/FB who can block, occasionally run the ball or catch a pass, and maybe throw a trick play or two. Belichick loves guys who are versatile, as he would say, "football players", who can perform different roles on the team. And like I said earlier, Josh McDaniels has some pretty crazy ideas with the offense.
But the past few years Belichick has only carried 2 quarterbacks on the roster, and unless Mallett is traded, he's clearly going to be the backup. He's a much better QB than Tebow. So, IF Tebow makes the final roster, it will be because he found some other niche. I'm just doubtful that will even happen.
Meh, I don't see a huge problem. He's a former Heisman winner with good size and athletic ability. Maybe he'll be able to contribute. There's nothing wrong with bringing the dude in for camp to see. If Bill doesn't see any way he can contribute or he becomes a distraction, Bill will get rid of him just like he has done with other players who became a "distraction". (Albert Haynesworth & Randy Moss come to mind)
It just seemed like Rex was pouring gas on the fire with the whole QB controversy with Sanchez and Tebow last year. That was handled about as poorly as possible and definitely contributed to the circus being even worse. Tebow's always had that extra media attention but I don't remember it being as crazy in Denver a couple years back as it was last year in NY.
Last edited:
If Tebow lands with NE past training camp this year I do not see any way its as a QB. If they are going to use up a roster spot with a 3rd string QB its not going to be for a guy with a career completion % of 48%. He's a mediocre QB but a good FB player. Move him around and let him play some h-back and I think he could be very valuable. Maybe the obvious direct snaps around the goal line too, but Brady is so good in short yardage that its hard to see that as much of an option.
Barring major injury like five years ago, I think NE will still be all about Brady. Tebow may have some sort of potential to be a starter in a few years and that's what the teams sees in him. Maybe Tebow is not prime time yet and he can still improve otherwise I can't see why NE got him. Tebow may fit into the team's system and it may work well in a way that was not possible on other teams. Belichick is very smart and while he may have big plans for Tebow, he's strategic in keeping things very quiet.
Not only do you need a backup in case something happens to Brady, but it's always nice to have an option for the team when he retires. People will be dissing Tebow either because of his faith or his apparently shameless grandstanding of it, but what matters is how he can produce for the team when the stakes are high. If it's not the faith we are talking about that seems distasteful, maybe the worn out pretty boy quarterback thing is not winning any fans. Sure, a lot of women like it but for the most part I don't know any guys who think that being on the cover of GQ is a plus in a football player's tool chest. If Tebow succeeds in New England I don't know how the team will downplay a certain male supermodel image which is so contrary to the macho world of football. While Brady is married to a supermodel, he himself can get as much modeling work as his wife. It's already established that the guy is as tough and resilient as anybody who has ever played the game but besides his arm, his good looks will be what he is remembered for. That strength and conditioning which makes him able to take hits as any QB does and keeps coming back will largely be forgotten. If Brady didn't have an arm he could still play on either offensive or defensive line and the only QB I have ever seen that tough in the NFL was Jim McMahon of the Bears in the 80s. Both those guys don't dodge hits but take them head on and almost relish in full contact. Brady calls his broken nose a "scratch". And when it comes to contact, what contact, what broken bones?:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000060525/article/wes-welker-tom-brady-is-one-tough-metrosexual
When my wife first saw Brady out there with his Fabio hair, she was shocked he was a football player.
I explained that he may look like that but he's a serious bad ass. Should New England recruit cover boys even if they are super tough?We already know that Tebow can perform under tremendous pressure and it's that which the team needs. Tebow can also underperform but honestly it hasn't been enough time to totally write him off as a college only star.
But then again in a few years there could be some other person starting at QB in New England that we would have never suspected. As long as Belichick is coach, it doesn't matter who is at QB and the team will be a major postseason contender. If Tebow does make the team and does well in the future, this Christian will be quite happy if he can keep his faith to himself while on the field. It's OK to share one's faith but there's time and place. The last time I checked, God doesn't root for sports teams (unless they are the MLB's Giants).
Last edited:
Once Brady goes (and I don't think that will be any time soon barring injury), they already have Ryan Mallet warming up in the bullpen, and Ryan Mallet Tim Tebow is not.
My guess is that Tebow will get a shot at QB to begin with, but after a while I think they will start putting him in the formation at a couple different spots to try and be an insurance policy in case Gronkowski cannot go this year.
The Patriots seem to be in pretty good shape and have a lot of depth. When Brady goes I am sure Belichick will make sure the entire team is well stocked for a long time. Some teams lose star players and have to "rebuild" but the Pats have been pretty consistent all the way around. At worst the Pats will just miss the playoffs in any given year and I can't ever see them lose more in a year than win.
My hope over here in Cali is that the 49ers stay sharp and can have a team with or without Kap. We had some decent years after Young with Garcia and while not the powerhouse it was when the team had Montana and Young, it still stayed relevant. After Garcia though we did have a rebuild time.
When Brady retires there's a good chance Bill retires with him. That's 5+ years away though.
All other coaches take note, this his how you handle the media circus:
Good god I would have lost my mind after the fifth freaking question. Yup he did a stellar job! Good for him.
5+ years? That's beyond delusional. And what will happen to Belichick if Brady is not in the game? Oh, he will be so heartbroken that he won't be able to go on. Wait, Joe Montana is still alive so I think we should get him suited up again in a Niners uniform!
5+ years? That's beyond delusional. And what will happen to Belichick if Brady is not in the game? Oh, he will be so heartbroken that he won't be able to go on. Wait, Joe Montana is still alive so I think we should get him suited up again in a Niners uniform!
Delusional? Don't kid yourself. Brady has been saying his entire career he wants to play 20 years until he's at least 40. He's only gotten better the past few years and has been playing the best football of his career. (10,11,12 has been the best 3 year stretch of his career statistics wise). He says he feels like he's throwing the ball better now than he ever has. Barring some unforseen injury, there's no reason he can't play 5 more years. If guys like Testaverde, Flutie, Favre, etc can play in to their 40s, there's no reason whatever that Brady (who's clearly a much better QB than any of those guys) can't do it. As long as he keeps up his arm strength, he's not going anywhere.
Meanwhile, Bill's starting to get up there. He's already 61, and he'll be at least 65 when Brady hangs them up. I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to hang them up, or at least take on a different role in the organization that would allow him to have more personal time. Of course, nobody loves football more than Bill, so he could also stay on the sidelines until he's 90.
The other guys at QB who went past 40 weren't the biggest target in the NFL. I would use Brady as long as possible and if he wins. Favre also had the best numbers late in career but while he did his personal best, he was not the same guy in his late-30s as in his 20s who could close out big games. Brady has all the late career skills as Favre, but like Favre, he can't win the big one in later career and twice against arguably the weakest match ups in Super Bowl history. It's not just yards and completions but the big picture and there's nobody as good in the game as the 2001-2004 Brady, not even Brady. He had the mental game as well and that's a big part of why NE went three complete and ultimately successful seasons for four in Super Bowls in that time period.
Experience is key but I will take youth and fewer overall injuries in a QB if their arm is true. On so many levels in SF, Alex Smith may have been the more consistent and experienced QB over Kap, but Kap's fewer injuries and fewer snaps led him to get starting job. Smith downplayed concussions two seasons before but it did do its damage. When things are all equal, a physical sport like football takes its toll on any single human being and if game plan and coaching is solid, take the youngest, strongest guy in every position possible. The 80s most successful Super Bowl QB was Montana and he was done as full starter at age 34. The 90s most successful Super Bowl QB was Aikman and he was out of full time job at 33. They have a total 7 Super Bowl championships together but nothing lasts forever. The 00's dynasty of course are the Pats with Brady with their 3 big wins but I don't expect Brady to buck the trend and get bonus time and make it happen this decade. No sport has anybody stay at #1 as top hero for 20 years.
I already went through this soap opera with everybody else in the Bay Area when we saw Montana get into his 30s and decline. As history has shown we see that the Niners were right in replacing Montana at starter and working with Young. Yes, Joe still had great numbers (that's not what anybody is arguing) but he wasn't as quick on his feet and took longer to get up after hits. All these subtle things made Montana the "better" QB in his younger years than in his later years. There may be some here who think that his arm and accuracy was every bit as good at KC, and while he took them to AFC Championship, the overall Montana package was not all there due to age/injuries. He just couldn't close out the big game in the AFC and I doubt he would have done so at Super Bowl. Had Montana had all his facilities that he did in the mid-80s and was at KC, I have no doubt he would have got them at least one Super Bowl win. Brady may or may not win another Super Bowl but nothing will compare to getting three wins in four years like he did in the previous decade. He was about as perfect a QB could have been in the game at that time and he's failed to be that same big game guy in more recent years. He's certain hall of fame material but mostly for what he did in those early years and had he quit in 2005 he would still be assured a spot in history.
Anyway, it's hard to argue against the hard facts for older, yet elite quarterbacks unable to get the job done in the big game:
http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2013/01/21/john-elways-winning-super-bowls/18254/
As for Coach Bill, he's one of the best coaches and since his job is not physical like the players, there's nothing saying that 61 is old. Yes, if Bill were a player, even some old kicker like Blanda, then there's an absolute limit even with the least chance for physical contact. But Bill is a coach and if he is in football for another two decades, then it's no surprise to me. Coaches do not make their careers around any one player as the depth and stars of New England now and in the past have shown, and there's no reason for him to hang it up anytime soon or even in ten years. If he does leave soon, there's going to be somebody who will offer him an amount he can't refuse and that's a nod to all the ex-coaches who have been brought back, even to very sorry teams.
Last edited:
The only reason I could see Belichick hang it up when Brady retires is his age. He is 61 as you point out. The daily grind of a successful NFL coach is incredible. Of course Belichick could probably coach until he approaches Joe Paterno territory but with all of his success and money you'd think he'd want to enjoy a nice long retirement. He certainly has earned it.
It's a team sport, not an individual sport. Saying "he can't win the big one" is a false argument when there's 53 guys on the roster. If Asante Samuel or Wes Welker could catch when it mattered, you'd be saying something entirely different. It's not Brady's fault those guys had the Lombardi trophy in their hands and dropped it at the end of the games.
It's impossible to do, but if you put '04 Brady against '13 Brady ceteris paribus, '13 Brady would kick '04 Brady's ass every time.
What was the difference between the Pats beating the Eagles in 04 and losing to the Giants 2 years ago? Defense and pass protection.
Honestly, just because Montana or Aikman couldn't play til they were 40 doesn't mean anything with regards to Brady. Every player is a different person. Just because a couple of superstars from the early 90s couldn't make it to age 40 doesn't mean every player ever won't be able to do it. Flutie did it, Testaverde did it, Favre did it, Warren Moon did it. There's plenty of examples of athletes playing into their 40s.
Hell, Jaromir Jagr was one of the best players on the ice last night for both teams in the Stanley Cup Finals at age 41. He doesn't have the fastest legs anymore but the guy still has more skill than 90% of the players on the ice. Two years ago I watched a 43 year old Mark Recchi fly around the ice beating guys who were 15 years younger than him. And this is in hockey, a sport that's more physically demanding and harder on an athlete's body than football.
So we know it's possible to be competitive as a pro athlete into your 40s, but whether Brady can do it or not doesn't hinge on what one specific player did in the past, it hinges solely on this:
Brady's turning 36 later this summer. He's playing the best football of his career and has gotten better with age, not worse. The type of game he plays relies mostly on his brain, football IQ, and decision making, not his mobility or athletic ability. As long as he can keep his arm strong and accurate, he can still play. The mental side of his game isn't going anywhere, and is only going to continue to get better.
I don't think Bill is worried about money or will be letting money influence his decisions. He's already set for life. Bill's been coaching football for over 4 decades. There's a chance that in a few years he'll want to retire and spend time relaxing on his boat, traveling, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if he did, but I also wouldn't be surprised if he coaches until his 80s. It will be interesting to see for sure.
I would be totally shocked if Belichick hung it up anytime soon. He's the most effective coach in the sport since John Madden and everybody has a price. As far as being set financially, Coach Bill was that years ago but this guy is about being a coach and winning and it's not something you can't divorce from his personality nor any top tier professional sports coach. Can you picture him on a boat? Come on, get real. We have SF Giants manager Bruce Bochy spending plenty of time on his boat but when it comes to game time, he's there and out to win each game as if it were his last and it's who he is. I don't think Belichick is any different of a person and there's certainly plenty of time to go boating and while these coaching jobs may be stressful, they are not 12 months a year full time like our jobs.
I wouldn't mind if Coach Bill retired and we got him over here in San Francisco or Oakland. There's money over here enough to give him an offer and the fierce fans in the Bay Area would more than welcome him.
Why yes, yes I can.
That's Bill's boat, "V Rings". The top shot is from the "A football life" documentary about him that NFL Films did a few years ago.
It is for Bill.
That's why he's the best coach in the league.Why yes, yes I can.
Image
That's Bill's boat, "V Rings". The top shot is from the "A football life" documentary about him that NFL Films did a few years ago.
It is for Bill.
Nice pix. As for best coach in league, how about best coach ever! What can happen is that maybe he will announce retirement but within a year several teams will say, "what you got paid we will double".
Tim Tebow moving up the TE depth chart.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nf...ed-by-police-in-homicide-probe/#ixzz2WbiGOtye
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nf...ed-by-police-in-homicide-probe/#ixzz2WbiGOtye
Tim Tebow moving up the TE depth chart.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nf...ed-by-police-in-homicide-probe/#ixzz2WbiGOtye
Gotta love sensationalist stories. Make it seem like huge news in the headline and then casually put this 2 paragraphs down: