The 2020-2021 Football Thread

[Apple fanboy]

Mourinho has been sacked!

Tottenham target attack-minded manager after sacking José Mourinho

Spurs have sacked José Mourinho and want his replacement to be modern in outlook and have strong credentials in the development of young players

www.theguardian.com

So surprised (not!). When will clubs learn he is yesterday’s man. He is not the guy you want in your dressing room and hasn’t been for a good few years.

 

[Applefan2015]

European Super league sounds like a brilliant idea ! Count me in ! Just need decide which team to support that will win it 🤔

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Mourinho is past it, at least at the elite level. It was clear from the start that bringing him to Spurs was a Levy vanity project, and he probably only lasted as long as he did in order for Levy to same some face.

I hope the 6 get thrown out of the premier league after this. Fans are furious and this will have a massive effect on English football. They’ve just made a massive mistake.

If it happens I am finished with Liverpool and anyone having anything to do with the "Super League." I've been through this with Columbus's abortive move to Austin under our previous owner - I didn't leave the club, the club left me. The league would have been happy to let it happen but in the Crew's case the fans were able to take the club back from the brink, new, better owners were found, and we went on to win a title.

This is a lesson to fans in England. None of the governments or governing bodies can be trusted to stop this - they are all run by rich men sympathetic to the Super League and its underlying greed. But the fans can. It will take an unprecedented level of grassroots organization and commitments by fans but it could be done with a coordinated media campaign coupled with fans refusing to give these clubs any money from any source so long as the super league idea lives.

The Super League idea is a distillation of everything that's wrong with football today. The breakaway clubs are banking that no matter how bad the reaction to the announcement is, if they can just force it through people will see it as a compelling product and the money will start pouring in. I hope they've miscalculated and they are crushed in the backlash.

 

[Bruninho]

I like the super league idea. No more small teams in group stage like it is with “Champions” league. Many of the teams classified to the UCL aren’t even champions of anything. I thought it was supposed to have only “champions”.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I like the super league idea. No more small teams in group stage like it is with “Champions” league. Many of the teams classified to the UCL aren’t even champions of anything. I thought it was supposed to have only “champions”.

So a team finishing mid table (sorry @Scepticalscribe) will be in the new super league. How is that better than what we have now?

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Club owners are looking greedily at the NFL's vast revenues, but I am skeptical that they can replicate that model in Europe. Also, with promotion and relegation done away with there will be no risk (or incentive) to the member clubs and a giant, guaranteed, eternal fountain of cash for each 'league' member. It's all so fake. It's not a competition, it's a cartel. A coup against world club football to create a monopoly of the "haves." I'm not giving that vision a penny of my money.

 

[MBAir2010]

Jose is just plain bored, he needs a better challenge football wise, and players who want to improve their game,
not that the spurs are in that mode, just how does someone manage a player like Son, Kane to be any better?
And what happened to Deli Alli this season?

 

[MBAir2010]

in the 1980's only one club champions from each league were allowed to play, as Aston Villa in 1984.
and in that era, Liverpool and Juventus played too many matches.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

So a team finishing mid table (sorry @Scepticalscribe) will be in the new super league. How is that better than what we have now?

History and tradition, I suppose. And supposed potential income deriving from history and reputation and tradition.

But, agreed, on principle (the disgusting idea of this tawdry and tacky competition) and performance (where the various culpable teams are actually currently lying - or, are to be found - in the Premiership - yes Arsenal, I'm looking at you, but, not only you) - this whole thing is utterly rancid and stinks to high heaven.

Club owners are looking greedily at the NFL's vast revenues, but I am skeptical that they can replicate that model in Europe. Also, with promotion and relegation done away with there will be no risk (or incentive) to the member clubs and a giant, guaranteed, eternal fountain of cash for each 'league' member. It's all so fake. It's not a competition, it's a cartel. A coup against world club football to create a monopoly of the "haves." I'm not giving that vision a penny of my money.

Agreed completely.

 

[SactoGuy18]

I don't think the German and French clubs will join in the Super League. Especially the German clubs, which have 51% public ownership for the most part.

 

[Apple fanboy]

History and tradition, I suppose. And supposed potential income deriving from history and reputation and tradition.

But, agreed, on principle (the disgusting idea of this tawdry and tacky competition) and performance (where the various culpable teams are actually currently lying - or, are to be found - in the Premiership - yes Arsenal, I'm looking at you, but, not only you) - this whole thing is utterly rancid and stinks to high heaven.

Agreed completely.

History and tradition? Better invite Preston North End then!
I’m sorry but you have to earn your place in a competition. If you weren’t good enough over the last 3-4 years you don’t deserve to be there. That is the basic fundamental principle of the football league. Leicester for example have a much better track record than Arsenal or Spurs over the last 5 years. Should they be there?

 

[Lord Blackadder]

From a personal perspective, I feel totally let down by FSG at Liverpool. I'm not truly surprised at their behavior, but it's still shocking and depressing. In a single press release they've jettisoned all pretense at being a better sort of owner that sees beyond the business to the community and sporting values that birthed the game in the first place.

History and tradition? Better invite Preston North End then!
I’m sorry but you have to earn your place in a competition. If you weren’t good enough over the last 3-4 years you don’t deserve to be there. That is the basic fundamental principle of the football league. Leicester for example have a much better track record than Arsenal or Spurs over the last 5 years. Should they be there?

The idea is that you must not just earn your place - but continually justify it. THAT is where the Super League goes off the rails. The breakaway clubs feel they've earned formal permanent elite status (which they already de facto enjoy at this point). Entrance into (and expulsion from) this closed cartel will be done through arbitrary private discussions divorced from any transparency or oversight. It marks the final devolution of professional football from sport to almost pure entertainment business.

I am not an idealist in the sense that I think sport should be amateur, or that we can truly provide a level financial playing field for all clubs. But I am disgusted by the level to which money has been allowed to infiltrate and influence sport, the extent of the inequality in professional sport, and the lack of independent governance from responsible organizations. It's going to be money-driven to a large degree, fine, but it should not be seen primarily as commerce and it should not be run by a rogue's gallery of shadowy ultra-rich individuals effectively responsible to no one.

I know a lot of people either don't care or are happy to let the oligarchs run everything as long as they provide bread and circuses. But even so I think the Super League sounds like a pretty crappy circus.

 

[Apple fanboy]

From a personal perspective, I feel totally let down by FSG at Liverpool. I'm not truly surprised at their behavior, but it's still shocking and depressing. In a single press release they've jettisoned all pretense at being a better sort of owner that sees beyond the business to the community and sporting values that birthed the game in the first place.


The idea is that you must not just earn your place - but continually justify it. THAT is where the Super League goes off the rails. The breakaway clubs feel they've earned formal permanent elite status (which they already de facto enjoy at this point). Entrance into (and expulsion from) this closed cartel will be done through arbitrary private discussions divorced from any transparency or oversight. It marks the final devolution of professional football from sport to almost pure entertainment business.

I am not an idealist in the sense that I think sport should be amateur, or that we can truly provide a level financial playing field for all clubs. But I am disgusted by the level to which money has been allowed to infiltrate and influence sport, the extent of the inequality in professional sport, and the lack of independent governance from responsible organizations. It's going to be money-driven to a large degree, fine, but it should not be seen primarily as commerce and it should not be run by a rogue's gallery of shadowy ultra-rich individuals effectively responsible to no one.

I know a lot of people either don't care or are happy to let the oligarchs run everything as long as they provide bread and circuses. But even so I think the Super League sounds like a pretty crappy circus.

Agreed. Let’s take Liverpool. Assume they don’t qualify for the CL this year, or in fact for the next 10 years. Meanwhile Leicester finish in the top four every year for the next 10 years. Suddenly the money side of it is starting to even out a bit. The next oil baron looking to buy a club might think Leicester looks a more attractive option. At least there is a chance for money to be spread about a bit with the current system.
Any league where certain clubs feel they have a Devine right to be in it, is not for me. Earn your place.

 

[Bruninho]

So a team finishing mid table (sorry @Scepticalscribe) will be in the new super league. How is that better than what we have now?

They will not be there because to be in Super league they have to be approved by their board of members.

I'd rather pay happily for 5 "El Clasicos" to watch instead of 5 La Liga games like Barcelona x Osasuna, Barcelona x Elche, Barcelona x Levante, Barcelona x Espanyol and Barcelona x Granada.

My club is paying a fortune in salary to these players, the show must be worth it. Therefore we should play against the big teams, so the sporting and economic return from that investment must be the same.

No more Barcelona x FC Midjtland or Barcelona x Apoel, and more of Barcelona x Milan and Barcelona x Man United for me is much appreciated.

 

[Apple fanboy]

They will not be there because to be in Super league they have to be approved by their board of members.

I'd rather pay happily for 5 "El Clasicos" to watch instead of 5 La Liga games like Barcelona x Osasuna, Barcelona x Elche, Barcelona x Levante, Barcelona x Espanyol and Barcelona x Granada.

But Arsenal as a founding member and sitting on the board will always be there even if they finish 10th in the PL. Ludicrous idea.
Your right that you enjoy the El Classico’s more than other games. But 5 of them a season would soon wear thin. I enjoy watching a lower league or relegation fodder team overturn a big club. It’s what makes football exciting. Anyone can beat anyone else on their day.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

They will not be there because to be in Super league they have to be approved by their board of members.

I'd rather pay happily for 5 "El Clasicos" to watch instead of 5 La Liga games like Barcelona x Osasuna, Barcelona x Elche, Barcelona x Levante, Barcelona x Espanyol and Barcelona x Granada.

My club is paying a fortune in salary to these players, the show must be worth it. Therefore we should play against the big teams, so the sporting and economic return from that investment must be the same.

No more Barcelona x FC Midjtland or Barcelona x Apoel, and more of Barcelona x Milan and Barcelona x Man United for me is much appreciated.

This is why the Super League will probably happen. Most fans agree with you that what they want to watch is El Classico or Liverpool v Man Utd, again and again. The "best" teams playing the "best" games forever, as often as possible. And the fans may be the only group capable of stopping this thing from happening.

My counter-argument is that you can't bottle the quality of those matches and play them on a loop forever and expect them to maintain the same level. For a certain segment of the fans it will be great - there is no limit to the number of El Classicos some fans are willing to pay to watch - but for many it will become repetitive and contrived.

It will be interesting to see how Spurs fans feel when they become a Super League club - but the worst Super League club that never wins anything and gets hammered by Real Madrid four times a year. Apart from the money (which the fans don't see a dime of), what is the incentive for finishing anything other than first in this new league?

 

[Bruninho]

I enjoy watching a lower league or relegation fodder team overturn a big club. It’s what makes football exciting. Anyone can beat anyone else on their day.

I don't. I don't enjoy watching a 90 min defensive game with 11 players from a underdog team just knocking the ball off the park every time my highly qualified team attack their defense with 99% ball possession and throwing a bomb at their goal the whole game, only to lose it with just one counter attack without any merit. I don't pay to watch a defender from Granada put their feet into the heels of Griezmann instead of the ball just to stop him from dribbling him or just because that defender does not have any football skill to stop him with a fair game.

No thanks but no thanks. This is not football for me. Football for me is when both teams want to play attacking minded, for the entire 90 minutes. They play a fair game. In Brazil, every game I watch someone makes a foul with less than 30 seconds of game. We have 40+ fouls the entire game. I've just watched last night my team draw against a tiny team that spent the 90 minutes without a single attempt at attacking our defense. I wish I hadn't turned on my TV to waste 90 minutes of my life to watch it.

To hell with the small teams. If they want to play on attack to deserve their place with us, fine. But if they want to spend 90 minutes playing in their own field, screw them. I have zero respect for that kind of football.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I don't. I don't enjoy watching a 90 min defensive game with 11 players from a underdog team just knocking the ball off the park every time my highly qualified team attack their defense with 99% ball possession and throwing a bomb at their goal the whole game, only to lose it with just one counter attack without any merit. I don't pay to watch a defender from Granada put their feet into the heels of Griezmann instead of the ball just to stop him from dribbling him or just because that defender does not have any football skill to stop him with a fair game.

I agree. But then why not share the wealth more within the existing leagues to raise the overall level of play, rather than try to arbitrarily segregate a handful of "super" clubs and let everyone else go pound sand?

Also, I think even in the super league you are going to see mismatches where one team is parking the bus. You aren't going to get away from that.

Finally, the owners are lying. it's about money - if you look at the serious journalism on the subject it's a total paradigm shift financially, and the motivation is absolutely increased revenue. Exciting play is a distant second. They know that if they can just get this league created it won't matter if some of these games are dull - they'll make a bank regardless because all the big name clubs and players will be involved. The hype machine will fill in the gaps. It happens now all the time with "big matches" that end up being cagey damp squibs. Everyone agrees it was boring but the suits are raking in the dough.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I don't. I don't enjoy watching a 90 min defensive game with 11 players from a underdog team just knocking the ball off the park every time my highly qualified team attack their defense with 99% ball possession and throwing a bomb at their goal the whole game, only to lose it with just one counter attack without any merit. I don't pay to watch a defender from Granada put their feet into the heels of Griezmann instead of the ball just to stop him from dribbling him or just because that defender does not have any football skill to stop him with a fair game.

No thanks but no thanks. This is not football for me. Football for me is when both teams want to play attacking minded, for the entire 90 minutes. They play a fair game. In Brazil, every game I watch someone makes a foul with less than 30 seconds of game. We have 40+ fouls the entire game. I've just watched last night my team draw against a tiny team that spent the 90 minutes without a single attempt at attacking our defense. I wish I hadn't turned on my TV to waste 90 minutes of my life to watch it.

To hell with the small teams. If they want to play on attack to deserve their place with us, fine. But if they want to spend 90 minutes playing in their own field, screw them. I have zero respect for that kind of football.

I think I’ve made my opinion quite clear. Given the outrage I’ve read everywhere about the idea, it seems most people are in agreement. The lower team playing the bigger team does not play out like you have written. Yes it can. But big teams can also play that way. There is no right or wrong way to play the game. It’s the variables that make it enjoyable for me.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I think I’ve made my opinion quite clear. Given the outrage I’ve read everywhere about the idea, it seems most people are in agreement.

The majority of football fans think this whole thing stinks. BUT control of the game lies in a very small number of clubs and individuals and they are all for it. So it will probably happen. Even if this attempt is thwarted, the big players have revealed their hand. They want this, and they are going to make it happen eventually.

 

[Apple fanboy]

The majority of football fans think this whole thing stinks. BUT control of the game lies in a very small number of clubs and individuals and they are all for it. So it will probably happen. Even if this attempt is thwarted, the big players have revealed their hand. They want this, and they are going to make it happen eventually.

Greed, greed, greed. I for one won’t watch a second of it. Yes that won’t have any effect on it’s likelihood, but it’s my only recourse.
Then what of the actual CL? PSG verses Bayern Munich each year?

 

[circatee]

Supporting Arsenal can be rather worrisome, and stressful, at the best of times. I mean, case in point, the Fulham game yesterday.

This whole joining the European Super League, is surely another level of suspenseful and alarming fear of the ever changing football game...

Franchise anyone?

 

[circatee]

Club owners are looking greedily at the NFL's vast revenues, but I am skeptical that they can replicate that model in Europe. Also, with promotion and relegation done away with there will be no risk (or incentive) to the member clubs and a giant, guaranteed, eternal fountain of cash for each 'league' member. It's all so fake. It's not a competition, it's a cartel. A coup against world club football to create a monopoly of the "haves." I'm not giving that vision a penny of my money.

My my, this is spot on! Nicely said...

 

[Bruninho]

So UEFA and FIFA aren't being greedy at all too? It is all their fault too. The new revamped rules for 2024 european tournaments are including MORE TEAMS, the opposite of what many other established teams want. Myself prefer to watch a Champions league with less teams, but more quality teams and better matches.

The 12 teams have every right to go against UEFA/FIFA, because both are being very, very greedy by inflating the tournaments with more and more such low quality teams.

We already went from 24 to 32 teams in World Cup. What next? 48? So we get to see Brazil vs El Salvador, France vs Ecuador, Germany vs Honduras? Really? Is this the quality I want to see in a World Cup? No thanks but no thanks. I want Brazil vs Spain, Germany vs England, France vs Portugal. Come on. Nobody is paying to watch Costa Rica vs Australia in a World Cup quarter finals match. So yes, FIFA is being greedy too. So is UEFA, with the relatively new Nations League, which ironically is played pretty much by the same rules of the so called clubs "Super League". Why do we need a Nations League when we have the Euro tournament? My dad is spanish, he didn't even knew there was a Nations league match a few weeks ago between Spain and Greece. Man, against GREECE, they parked the bus as always. wtf. Another 90 minutes of my life wasted because Greece can't mount an attack to save their lives.

I am not paying to watch Apoel vs Barcelona or Ferencvaros vs Barcelona in group stage when I can wait until quarterfinals to watch Barcelona vs Bayern or Manchester United, for example. The matches that matters all are in quarterfinals. Having to travel and play with such low quality teams in group stage is a waste of time and resources for these bigger teams. My vote is for less teams and more strict requirements to be qualified for a such high level tournament. Afterall, it is called "Champions League", yet only 3 of the 4 semi finalists have never won it. I think it is a big shame for the tournament.

To put in simple words, both sides are being greedy in this fight. But UEFA/FIFA has more to lose than these 12 clubs.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

To put in simple words, both sides are being greedy in this fight. But UEFA/FIFA has more to lose than these 12 clubs.

I agree with you. There are no heroes in this affair, only villains and victims. FIFA and UEFA have been doing this sort of thing for years already. The Super League is just a big step further down a path they paved, the rich getting richer and more exclusive and wringing even more wealth out of the fans at the expense of the integrity of competition. If the Super League fatally weakens the power of UEFA and FIFA they will have merely been hoisted by their own petard.

But that is not a reason to approve of the Super League or to tolerate it - because WE are the ones getting screwed. On the contrary, it's a reason to reject it utterly and work for more equitable league structures and the reform of FIFA and UEFA before things take an irrevocable turn for the worse.

I disagree with you on your assessment of the Nations League though. The purpose is to ensure that teams only face opponents of approximately comparable skill level and so far it has proven a success. We still see the odd stinker of a match but less often. Every nation has something to play for and the weakest nations have a chance to improve. There is actually a point to the whole thing that goes beyond just pitting the same few "best" teams against each other over and over.