Had a run with Apple Maps navigation and no snap-on to roads with Apple Fitness app and "raw" GPS data visualized in Runalyze.
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The AW Ultra suddenly seems like a bargain now with Garmins silly pricing
- Thread starter dj1891
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I think my specific scenario simply revealed what Apple is doing and they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar. Most people run sidewalks or run trails. I haven't seen many scenarios where there is a multi-use trail running far enough away but parallel to a regular road with a sidewalk. If you find a similar scenario you can test it yourself. I also mentioned that I was using Apple Maps for navigation as well.
Likewise I do not consider this to be any sort of smoothing. This is basically Apple massaging the data where it thinks it has bad data.
First Apple Watch 8. You can see the trail go off to the left on the dirt. In this instance there is no sidewalk next to the road.
Next we have the Garmin 7XSS.
On this next one you can see the Apple Watch 8 leave tracking on the street and finally join the Multi-Use Trail after it has gone through an intersection.
Here is the Fenix 7XSS
This is all from the same run but I've seen the same pattern across multiple runs.
Do you always run with Apple Maps for navigation? I never use that - if I navigate it’s often Footpath - looks like yours is pretty snapped on - mine is very clearly not as it is not even close to being so straight as yours are
Oh honestly I was just playing with this function because it is part of what is new in Watch OS 11. Everyone else in my family owns Apple Watches and when they upgrade rather than doing the trade in figure (because it is often insulting) I'll play with the watch for a while and then often sell it.
I decided to play with the navigation because I mentioned earlier in this thread about going for a run with my son. He was going to complete an interval workout run with me. I mentioned how the lack of nesting for intervals is a current problem. I also mentioned that when you quit the workout, you quit the activity too and basically it becomes two activities which I found annoying.
One part that wasn't annoying though was after I designed the workout on the watch, I could send it to him via iMessage. That was pretty cool so I decided to see if navigation via Apple Maps would be the same. I'd see if I can create a route and then share it to someone. Sadly you cannot share routes or really export them in any form or fashion. It really seems like a huge missed opportunity and an easy way to convert a lot of casual runners to Apple Watch. The workout and the route arrive in a group chat text and everyone just clicks on it and has it show up on their Apple Watches, that could be a huge selling point.
I just hate how people often repeat things without much thought. As a Garmin owner using Spotify is actually great. (It's also great at controlling your iPhone) The playlists update when you charge, you can store a lot of music, there's a hot key combo to get the music player and the watch works quite well with my AirPods Pro 2 and Powerbeats Pro 2. Garmin Pay is another hot key combo and works fantastic for me. As everyone has said the light is a major awesome feature (also activated via hot key) and it's also nice to have in case your headlamp magically dies. When I run my second screen is my navigation screen with both HR and pace. It's a great set up. My watch lasts 12-14 days between charges. The Garmin can also be used for virtual running with Zwift and can broadcast HR to my bike computer or any other app I'm using not called AppleFitness+.
I've done some interesting things with Apple Watches as well. I've used Workoutdoors and I've followed it's development. I've completed a full marathon and a half Ironman 70.3 with the series 7. With decent battery health and low power mode on the regular Apple Watch (which almost no one seems to discuss) you can probably get 8 hrs of activity tracking. However that is going to be with low power mode, zero navigation, zero cellular ability and zero music being run off the watch. In short you'll make it less smart than a Garmin to get any reasonable battery life out of it and it will still be a "fussy" experience.
One last point in this thread about watches and pricing, Apple Watches depreciate very badly. The huge number of charge cycles on the battery make many people rationalize them as nearly useless for real activity tracking in maybe two years. Apple does the same with their trade-in values. On the positive side for Apple their zero percent financing and 3% back make it pretty easy to talk yourself into a new Apple Watch. I'm playing with this series 8 because it is aluminum with cellular ability on the watch. It was $530 new. Apple's trade-in value for it is $140. I personally think that is pretty steep which is why I just take it from the kiddos, play with it for 3-4 months and then sell it for $150.
Same for me. No smoothing. Running 70k to 100k a week plus biking. Best watch ever. And no phone needed 🤣 + no screen burn in if you want to turn AOD on. The heart rate sensor and the body battery on the garmin is sooo annoying and wrong. There is even no way to tell garmin that I need less than 7h sleep per night. All that non sience and non smart stuff tries to tell me something all day long. What a joke. Bad sensors. Joke algorithms. And non smart.
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I don't remember if they smooth data just for displaying in apple Fitness or if it's stored as smoothed.
I don't use Apple built in app very often
But looking Apple exercise routes in Apple fitness show something ultra smoothed (it's super nice looking but a bit too much).
The raw data especially transferred to trainingpeaks is never smoothed. Expert knowledge 😁I don't remember if they smooth data just for displaying in apple Fitness or if it's stored as smoothed.
I don't use Apple built in app very often
The data is only smoothened on display.
So when are you going to beat the Iron Man course record at Kona that is currently held by Patrick Lange (who uses Garmin) or beat guys like Jonas Vingegaard in the pro peloton? And when will you achieve the highest VO2 max ever recorded, which is currently held by kristian blummenfelt, who also uses Garmin.
I wonder why nobody, literally nobody in the Pro Peloton uses Apple Watches, yet at the same time the entire Garmin Suite (including their watches) is used by the very best teams in the world like Jumbo-Visma, Ineos Grenadiers, Soudal Quick Step, ....
With all that "non-science" and "bad sensors" the creme of the crop athletes use, you should be destroying them so easily right with your Apple Watch? MacRumors clearly knows better than the best of the best professional athletes.
Garmin paid those teams: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/newsro...ponsored-professional-cycling-teams-for-2023/
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/newsro...ofessional-triathletes-organisation-for-2023/
You will have to do better.
Garmin hardware is unmatched. There software is also unmatched BUT not in a good way. All you have to do is read the Garmin Forums. Pick Outdoor Division or Sports Division. The software bugs are everywhere. They do 3 months updates that fix 1 thing and break 2 things. I gave up on them standing behind their products. Used them since 2009 but I HAD to switch to Apple for reliability.
Teams like Jumbo Visma and Ineos Grenadiers have one of the biggest budgets in the pro peloton, they don't need the money. And Jumbo Visma has the best development program in the entire peloton, so Garmin is clearly working.
And teams like Ineos Grenadiers who are always looking for "marginal gains", always looking for the best of the best. And they wouldn't use Garmin at all if it was so crap like MacRumors is saying. So you will have to do better.
But I am waiting for you and that other guy to beat Jonas Vingegaard and Remco Evenepoel who rely on crappy Garmin. And what are your times at Kona in Iron Man? Should be easy to beat Patrick Lange as he relies on crappy Garmin.
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What is strange is a bunch of recreational amateurs talking **** about Garmin who has a far superior track record than Apple and is used by literally the best of the best in the world.
I know for a fact that guys like Cam Wurz owns an Apple Watch too (these guys are multi millionaires, it shouldn't be a surprise they can buy an Apple Watch), yet he keeps using "crappy" Garmin.
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This does accomplish a couple points though. It shows the people in that sport that the sponsor cares enough about the sport to be seen. It also often means that the sponsored parties give feedback to the company about the product they are using to make it even better.
Apple does neither of those things and it shows, sometimes quite badly.
Apple certainly spends plenty of money on advertising. When Apple wants to be thought of as important in music they have sponsored concerts, documentaries, and so on.
The point shouldn't be that Garmin has sponsored athletes and teams. The question should be why does Apple have ZERO sponsored athletes and teams.
Additionally why do we see zero feedback from that group improving the fitness aspect of the Apple Watch?
To be honest though many of those questions and bugs relate to very edge case scenarios that are impossible on the Apple Watch and most other competitors. For example I've been doing a lot of treadmill running lately. I use my Garmin with the virtual run activity profile to execute the recommended part of my daily training plan, a plan from Garmin that is also adaptive, on my treadmill with Zwift.
My watch can transmit my cadence, speed and HR to my Apple TV running Zwift to a nice big TV I've got mounted to the wall. It's a great way to fit in the running with busy holidays.
You can find a million posts where people want to do this with their Apple Watches. Apparently Zwift tried to get the watch to do it but gave up. On a good day some people manage to use the Zwift companion app to get the Apple Watch to broadcast HR.
Likewise my Garmin can broadcast HR to anything that is not Apple Fitness. I can broadcast to Peloton, to Zwift, to whatever.
There are also a million posts out there where people wish the Apple Watch could broadcast HR to their bike computer.
People have commented that all outdoor runs are just outdoor runs on Apple Watch. You can't have trail running vs outdoor running as different sports as an example.
Meanwhile the watch as speaker is a mess on Apple. I've experienced it myself. I'll have my airpods in, start music on the watch and have it play on the iPhone speaker first.
In short more abilities, more complexity, more bugs.
I disagree. We see Apple having a presence and showing feedback loops with professionals as an important consideration in the markets that Apple happens to care about. We don't complain that Apple sponsors a symposium or features short films all made with Final Cut Pro. We don't complain that they highlight and pay for things that are "Made On iPhone."
The reality is Apple cares about those markets and the sports market is a straight up afterthought and the way the Apple Watch works, and the lack of improvements that professionals in those fields would suggest, shows.
Bad argument. Whoop sponsors many athletes wearing a Whoop, including Maholmes and many many soccer players. And their products are totally ****.,
How many professional runners here ?
I think every one agrees a Garmin is a better running watch, if we just take care of this feature.
It's a bit normal that professional runners use Garmin (or Coros, Suunto, Polar ...) watches.
An AW is a smartwatch with very nice sport features that can be enough for 95% of amateur runners and offer other features that overpass by far what you find on pure sport watches (connectivity, messaging, maps, music, podcasts, 3rd party apps, connected house, voice command, open/drive your car, pay, notifications, far better display ...)
If un AWU battery doesn't last enough for your activity (Ultra trail, Iron man ...) you don't have the choice.
I think every one agrees a Garmin is a better running watch, if we just take care of this feature.
It's a bit normal that professional runners use Garmin (or Coros, Suunto, Polar ...) watches.
An AW is a smartwatch with very nice sport features that can be enough for 95% of amateur runners and offer other features that overpass by far what you find on pure sport watches (connectivity, messaging, maps, music, podcasts, 3rd party apps, connected house, voice command, open/drive your car, pay, notifications, far better display ...)
If un AWU battery doesn't last enough for your activity (Ultra trail, Iron man ...) you don't have the choice.
Yes. important is the definition of the term professional. I will not agree that you need a garmin for running a marathon. And then go back and challenge yourself: How many percent of the people out there are running ultras or iron mens...
Garmin does have a huge problem. Because the Apple Watch can do all of those things and even much better what a garmin can do. If you need that huge amount of battery then fine. That seems to be the only customers left for garmin
And running with a crippled watch all day long, carrying my phone, having bad sensors is more annoying. Speaking as a runner with 70-100k a week
Is 70-100k a week professional or not?
Garmin does have a huge problem. Because the Apple Watch can do all of those things and even much better what a garmin can do. If you need that huge amount of battery then fine. That seems to be the only customers left for garmin
And running with a crippled watch all day long, carrying my phone, having bad sensors is more annoying. Speaking as a runner with 70-100k a week
Is 70-100k a week professional or not?
Happy new year everyone!!
I dont understand why you argue?
Ex user garmin for 7 years(f3,f5,f5 plus,f6x,f7x,edge 1030,power pedals and hrm zones)
Now Ultra 2 , edge 1030 and hrm
Garmin is a big sport company and Apple the biggest tech company
Garmin fenix watch is a more dedicated sport watch with a plethora of metrics and battery(most metrics useless for big mass)
Apple watch is a smartwatch with all the sport activities and 80% of fenix metrics(also most of them are useless metrics)
after many years with garmin i prefer the ultra 2 as the biggest event to participate atm is olympic triathlon distance and i dont care about battery life.
If apple with the ultra 3 manage to get the battery to 4 days will take a lot of people from garmin.
I dont understand why you argue?
Ex user garmin for 7 years(f3,f5,f5 plus,f6x,f7x,edge 1030,power pedals and hrm zones)
Now Ultra 2 , edge 1030 and hrm
Garmin is a big sport company and Apple the biggest tech company
Garmin fenix watch is a more dedicated sport watch with a plethora of metrics and battery(most metrics useless for big mass)
Apple watch is a smartwatch with all the sport activities and 80% of fenix metrics(also most of them are useless metrics)
after many years with garmin i prefer the ultra 2 as the biggest event to participate atm is olympic triathlon distance and i dont care about battery life.
If apple with the ultra 3 manage to get the battery to 4 days will take a lot of people from garmin.
I'm in the 70-100K a week myself with 3.877 km in 2024 so almost 75 km a week in average and even the peak weeks in the marathon blocks above 100K has been completely fine with the AWU batteryYes. important is the definition of the term professional. I will not agree that you need a garmin for running a marathon. And then go back and challenge yourself: How many percent of the people out there are running ultras or iron mens...
Garmin does have a huge problem. Because the Apple Watch can do all of those things and even much better what a garmin can do. If you need that huge amount of battery then fine. That seems to be the only customers left for garmin
And running with a crippled watch all day long, carrying my phone, having bad sensors is more annoying. Speaking as a runner with 70-100k a week
Is 70-100k a week professional or not?
No. You have to win international races.
Even they don't seem to be using Garmin - with a lot of the pro's using COROS
Hmmm, also the best Trail Runner of all time, Kilian Jornet, was running with a Suunto watch. But he was so fast, he did not need a big battery.