The MBP brand has been tarnished.

[173080]

Just because YOU never utilized those things you think no one does so everyone is an idiot who thinks otherwise. I'm glad there are watered-down products that you are happy with but now a chunk of their user base was left out to pasture yet again. THAT is what this thread is about.

don't downgrade the MBP line to the consumer level and still call it "pro." Have a line of consumer products at around $1200 (MB), and a "pro" line (MBP) and spec it as such. Those of us willing to pay over $3000 for the "pro" are expecting just THAT.

Exactly.

On another note, when my 15-year old sister found out what happened to the Macbook Pro range her reaction was "That's like merging Giorgio Armani with Armani Exchange, you just don't do that."

If I'm getting the same quality and experience and almost the same specs for $1200 than I would for $3000, what incentive is there to pay $3000?

 

[harcosparky]

Yesterday Apple gave the final blow to the Macbook Pro brand and ruined it by adding the "13'' Macbook Pro"

Yeah, a 13" machine doesn't belong in the Pro lineup!

Oh wait, not that long ago there was a 12" machine in the Pro lineup.

Wasn't it called the 12" Powerbook ???

And if I am not mistaken is was MISSING some of the pieces of its bigger brother in the Powerbook lineup.

When I bought my first Powerbook the 12" was in my sights, but there was a port missing from it that I wanted.



I welcome the 13" MBP with its improved screen and other upgrades - it will fit nicely in my camera gear bag !!!!!

I was gonna buy the 13" for my daughter, but now I may buy it for me and give her my 15" uMBP.









The elitist are alarmed ... the line between them and the 'little people' has become blurred!!!!!

 

[jhsfosho]

The 13'' macbook pro is the long awaited replacement for the 12'' powerbook. In fact, my sister still uses her 12'' powerbook and is excited to upgrade to a 13'' macbook pro.

 

[Anuba]

If I'm getting the same quality and experience and almost the same specs for $1200 than I would for $3000, what incentive is there to pay $3000?

Then don't pay $3000, pay $1200. Where's the problem? I'm sure Apple have their business strategy and branding perfectly under control, and whatever they're doing is exactly what they want to be doing. Who knows, maybe they just want to rid the Mac community of arrogant snobs to make it more inviting.

 

[bmcgrath]

Then don't pay $3000, pay $1200. Where's the problem? I'm sure Apple have their business strategy and branding perfectly under control, and whatever they're doing is exactly what they want to be doing. Who knows, maybe they just want to rid the Mac community of arrogant snobs to make it more inviting.

Hah yeah exactly. Bloody snobs!

 

[bcaslis]

Obviously you have made your case that, like many posters here, you have your eyes closed, fingers in ears singing LALALALA whenever anyone has anything negative to say about Apple's products.

Pro's want multiple FW800 for input/output while editing. Pros want to use dedicated Express cards for software that requires it and have the choice to swap out devices rather than have 10 things dangling by USB outside of the machine and Pros USE THE EXTRA POWER OF DEDICATED CHIPS that you see as unnecessary.

Just because YOU never utilized those things you think no one does so everyone is an idiot who thinks otherwise. I'm glad there are watered-down products that you are happy with but now a chunk of their user base was left out to pasture yet again. THAT is what this thread is about.

You know you are getting borderline insulting. I've never said nobody wants these features or that they don't have value. I have said that lack of these features doesn't make a laptop non-pro.

I do utilize some of these features, but lack of them doesn't make something non-pro. Who determines pro? You?

If you MUST have those features then you should communicate that with Apple and probably the best way to do that is not to buy their product. I think you will find there are lots of people who will buy the products without those features.

 

[HLdan]

Exactly.

On another note, when my 15-year old sister found out what happened to the Macbook Pro range her reaction was "That's like merging Giorgio Armani with Armani Exchange, you just don't do that."

If I'm getting the same quality and experience and almost the same specs for $1200 than I would for $3000, what incentive is there to pay $3000?

Yeah, were gonna follow your 15 year old sister (who's still a minor BTW) on her opinion of how Apple rebranded the 13"MBP.
Also, why are you complaining? Would you rather pay $3000. Do you need an incentive? Not all of us have disposable income like you may have. All these years Apple has had a reputation for high prices and now they are addressing this by offering a Pro model in the smaller screen like it should've been and they are making it affordable for more customers and this is a bad thing???

 

[juanster]

who cares what they call it? pro or not pro, if it does what you need then you should get it.. I see a looooooot of people using mac pro's just to browse the net and itunes... who cares if it can do it, you like it, you can afford it then buy it... you don;t like it fine.. don't buy it..

 

[colourfastt]

Hah yeah exactly. Bloody snobs!

HMPH!! Just because I drive a $50K Cadillac CTS, wear nothing but Ralph Lauren, and drink $600/litre Hennessy Paradis cognac that makes me a snob? (Not to mention expecting my "pro" line laptops to be "pro" not average consumer ... they can go buy a $600 Dell if they want a cheap laptop.)

 

[macDonalds]

I would like the 17" to be rebranded as 'pr0n'.

 

[edoates]

I do agree that *unless* Apple's intention is to completely phase out the ExpressCard Slot the only real MacBookPro is the 17" which keeps it.

SD is not professional and belongs on a MacBook. My 5D mark II is CF and I wouldn't even want that on my Mac. What's so hard about using the cable? The read speeds in the 5Dmk2 are amazing!

Unless there is a future possibility to use the SD slot for something more useful than viewing your kids 3rd b-day party photos with Grandma I will never understand why it replaced the ExpressCard Slot regardless if people used it or not. How many overzealous Mac addicts need the power of a Pro anyways. If they want top of the line and are willing to buy into that product line, they get the best. That's the point of the MBP! In that way, yes the brand has been tarnished...... unless that feature is doomed to be phased out (perhaps fear of it catching on and hurting a FW1600 possibility?)

SDHC may become the new standard for solid state video cams, pro and otherwise. Class 6 cards easily handle 35mb/s of the new JVC cam (prosumer at least), and there are adapters to allow SDHC to work with the Sony XDCAM EX series in place of the gosh awful expensive SxS cars ($800 for 8GB!).

Panny's P2 cards are like wise too expensive even for pros. So unless you need in camera ProRes 422 or uncompressed capabilities (kind of don't exist anyway), SDHC is just fine and I welcome it's inclusion in the new MBP.

But they still need to have kept the ExpressCard slot somehow to enable eSata external drives; But I think that's dead now for all but the 17". At least we got FW800 back!

Eddie O

 

[JamesGorman]

While watching the WWDC keynote I began to remember the good days of the PowerBook. Owning a computer from Apple's pro lineup meant you had shelled out a decent amount of cash, and you were getting the best of the best in terms of industrial design along with the exclusivity.

I remember paying $3,100 for my PowerBook G4, and there was an incredibly clear difference between my $3,100 PBG4 and a $1400 iBook. The materials and build quality were completely different, as they should be. It was truly a special machine, and it showed.

And then comes the unibody Macbook. Apple gives their entry level customers access to the nice metal casing we've had for some eight years but at a much lower price point, and so the blending of the Macbook and Macbook Pro lines begins.

Yesterday Apple gave the final blow to the Macbook Pro brand and ruined it by adding the "13'' Macbook Pro" starting at a measly $1200. They bring the Macbook and Macbook Pro lines together by crippling the Macbook Pro enough to be somewhat like a Macbook. Now, why is a $1200 computer allowed to carry the name of what once used to be the 7-Series of computing? An atrocious democratization of the Macbook Pro!

What is Pro about the MBP anymore? There is no matte screen option. The screen bezel is huge. No ExpressCard slot. The classic keyboard had better tactile feedback. The 13" and base 15" can't run CUDA. An SD card slot is for consumers with P&S cameras. No built-in eSATA. The video adapters and remote are not included (a matter of convenience, even if it means a higher price).

And so the Macbook Pro brand has been tarnished. It is no longer a special badge worn only by the few - it has lost its essence.

The 9400m is capable of running cuda..If you look at NVIDIA's website, it is very clear that it is a cuda card.

 

[PolySciSurfer]

Exactly.

On another note, when my 15-year old sister found out what happened to the Macbook Pro range her reaction was "That's like merging Giorgio Armani with Armani Exchange, you just don't do that."

If I'm getting the same quality and experience and almost the same specs for $1200 than I would for $3000, what incentive is there to pay $3000?

Dude you just keep digging yourself into a hole. I'm actually really starting to get annoyed with your arrogance. Can we please send this thread to the wasteland?

 

[DaBrain]

Exactly.

On another note, when my 15-year old sister found out what happened to the Macbook Pro range her reaction was "That's like merging Giorgio Armani with Armani Exchange, you just don't do that."

If I'm getting the same quality and experience and almost the same specs for $1200 than I would for $3000, what incentive is there to pay $3000?

1st paragraph not worth commenting on. The 2nd paragraph however, does.

I have read many absurd things in my life, but someone complaining that what they get for $1200 is dang near the same thing as what they would have paid $3000 and in so many words demands to pay the $3000 is just astounding!

This just takes the icing off the cake!

I tell you what! Send me the $3000 and I will order you a $1200 Macbook Pro and send it to you all wrapped up in a pretty wrapper! You will get what you asked for and should be very happy about your new $3000 purchase!

Now doesn't that make you feel just a wee bit better?

 

[Anuba]

But they still need to have kept the ExpressCard slot somehow to enable eSata external drives; But I think that's dead now for all but the 17". At least we got FW800 back!

Yeah, but the thing is... this was an interim refresh that won't mean squat in 6 months time when they launch the quads. When they do, they will also definitely introduce USB 3.0.

USB 3.0 offers 625 MB/s (5 Gbit/s), which means that...

- It craps all over ExpressCard (2.5 Gbit/s)
- It craps all over Firewire 800 (800 Mbit/s)
- It craps all over Firewire 3200 (3.2 Gbit/s)
- It craps all over eSATA (3 Gbit/s)

Apple were never big on legacy ports -- they removed 9-pin serial, 25-pin parallel, SCSI, VGA and FW400 long before everyone else -- and they also love keeping it simple. My guess is that in 5 years time they'll have abandoned firewire (FW3200 is too little too late) and the 2014 MacBook Pro will have 4 USB 3.0 ports in place of whatever USB/Firewire combo they have now.

Speculation of course, but I think USB 3.0 will take over completely. Manufacturers are itching to stop messing around with all these different standards and just settle for a single one.

 

[v66jack]

You can understand what apple are doing though, the only real thing that stops people buying macs is the price, as they bring that down they increase customer base.
Still producing great products and providing an amazing service they are just showing how far behind other manufacturers are, building their brand as more people convert due to the many advantages

 

[173080]

I was thinking what would be a notebook I would love to buy from Apple and came up with a list: We'll call it the Macbook Elite for the sake of parody, seeing as some of you see it as bourgeois.

Macbook Elite
15" 1680x1050 matte high gamut 8-bit display.
Titanium and carbon-fiber enclosure.
Quadro GPU.
Computer chips and components are always binned after testing. During manufacturing of a CPU there are 2.8Ghz CPUs that will perform better and will statistically last longer than others. This process is where server-grade components (hard drives, for example) come from. So it should use components that have been binned as the best, meaning they exceed the specs.
Keyboard mechanism from the classic MBP, but with metallic individually CNC machined keys.
Built-in eSATA.
Firewire 400 and 800.
ExpressCard slot.
Included video adapters and remote.
Very stringent quality control.
Zero defects guarantee. That means zero dead or stuck pixels, no milimetrically misaligned keys, no burn marks from the laser, a lid that closes flush and is symmetrical.
Included Priority AppleCare with a different number to call and guaranteed first-in-line same day repairs. Last time I sent my MBP for a screen replacement it took a full week.

Starting at $4299

As you can see, if Apple were to offer this notebook it would in no way take away from the current offerings or affordability. It would be like BMW's M division. An //M Macbook Pro.

 

[Anuba]

You can understand what apple are doing though, the only real thing that stops people buying macs is the price, as they bring that down they increase customer base.
Still producing great products and providing an amazing service they are just showing how far behind other manufacturers are, building their brand as more people convert due to the many advantages

Great products, yes. Amazing service... where? Maybe if you live two blocks from the flagship Apple Store, but internationally their service is beyond laughable. No on-site NBD repairs on anything except Mac Pro, and then only if you live within a small radius of an Apple Premium Reseller or Apple Store. Dell may not make great products, but their service makes Apple look like two guys in a garage. When any of my Dells break down, I place a call, and in 12-24 hours the machine has been fixed right in my home. When my iMac broke down I had to drive it to a neighboring town, it's been three weeks now and still no word. How Apple expects to attract business users with their amateurish service is beyond me.

 

[v66jack]

yes but would apple see a return on how much it would cost to launch a whole new elite macbook product! I don't think that many people would pay the extra money for little improvements!! But maybe they would???

 

[v66jack]

Great products, yes. Amazing service... where? When my iMac broke down I had to drive it to a neighboring town, it's been three weeks now and still no word. How Apple expects to attract business users with their amateurish service is beyond me.

I cant say I've had this problem in the UK, any problem they've just given me a new product!! But I agree phoning them sometimes is a complete waste of time!!

 

[Anuba]

yes but would apple see a return on how much it would cost to launch a whole new elite macbook product! I don't think that many people would pay the extra money for little improvements!! But maybe they would???

I think that Apple has discovered that it's much more gratifying and profitable to cater to consumers and prosumers rather than whiney professionals.

If you have one huge group that says "We love the glossy screens! More please!" and one small group that says "Waaah! Where's my matte screen? Where's my eSATA? Where are my dual ExpressCard ports? Where's my eight firewire ports?" Where's my 32 GB RAM?", it's obvious where the money and the future is.

 

[173080]

I think that Apple has discovered that it's much more gratifying and profitable to cater to consumers and prosumers rather than whiney professionals.

If you have one huge group that says "We love the glossy screens! More please!" and one small group that says "Waaah! Where's my matte screen? Where's my eSATA? Where are my dual ExpressCard ports? Where's my eight firewire ports?" Where's my 32 GB RAM?", it's obvious where the money and the future is.

Enlightenment comes when you realize both groups are profitable, and that it's not a matter of either/or.

 

[v66jack]

But to Apple is there any competition in the professional market, they already have all of those customers and are trying to gain more consumers. It's not like professionals are all going to convert to windows just because of no firewire port and a few less gigs of ram than they were expecting!!

 

[iMacmatician]

If I'm getting the same quality and experience and almost the same specs for $1200 than I would for $3000, what incentive is there to pay $3000?

"Almost"?

• 13.3" 1280x800 to 17" 1920x1200
• 2.27 GHz to 3.07 GHz CPU
• 2 GB to 4 GB RAM
• 160 GB to 500 GB HDD
• 256 MB 9400M to 256 MB 9400M + 512 MB 9600M GT GPU

The SuperDrive stays the same, but that's about it.

 

[Anuba]

Enlightenment comes when you realize both groups are profitable, and that it's not a matter of either/or.

They've dealt with the small whiney group for 33 years, I don't think they need any further enlightenment on what it entails to cater to them. It's a dead end, and they'll gladly hand it over to Dell or whoever thrives on letting the customers configure every screw to their exact specifications.

Steve Jobs has been burned one time too many with building insanely cost prohibitive products for a select few. He did it with the Lisa and it was a huge flop. He did it again with NeXT, and ended up being bought by his old company. He did it yet again with the ludicrously expensive G4 Cube, hopefully his last "Prada" experiment. The money is in the mass market and I'm sure the shareholders would agree.

But hey, if you're hell bent on feigning exclusivity through your purchases, why don't you just build a Mac Pro with all the most expensive options they offer? A fully decked out Mac Pro 2.93 GHz octad is $19,000. You're guaranteed to be the only one in the neighborhood with that thing.