The morality of pirating and EULA

[jca24]

Maybe it's a jersey thing, but as i said before, i don't know anyone who doesn't engage in some form of pirating or another. My best friend didn't know how to do it when i first met him because he's not too tech savvy, but then i yelled at him for paying for his music and taught him how to pirate and he's been a happy camper ever since.
I doubt all your friends are such staunch anti-pirates. They're probably torrenting as we speak.

Yup, must be a jersey thing. Hopefully one day you will mature and be a man with integrity. I doubt it though. Have fun stealing and living in your moms basement. Maybe one day someone will steal from you, remember, what goes around usually comes back around a lot harder.

 

[wordoflife]

I disagree with the comments about pirating saying "Piraters would never have paid for it anyways" or "I'm poor and those companies have enough money so it doesn't matter". I think it's wrong however you look at it, but whether we go ahead and still do it is a different debate.

But trying to justify pirating? no.

 

[likemyorbs]

Have fun stealing and living in your moms basement.

I already told you, I don't live in the basement, I have a bedroom on the upper floor!


Now that we've discussed piracy. Let's discuss EULA. Instead of loaning your DVD out to a friend to make a copy of, what if you want to rip a dvd you purchased onto your own computer to stream to your apple tv? would you do it or would you purchase that movie a second time from itunes? Or what if you bought software that could only be installed on one computer, but you have a few computers in your house. would you purchase another copy of the software or would you bend the rules a bit and just install it on your other computers?

 

[wordoflife]

^^

Oh to be honest with you, I'll just say "hell with it". I've installed Microsoft Office OEM so many times on my computer that I actually had to call Microsoft to have them register it for me. I just told them that I was reinstalling Windows. I only did it 2-3 times though when I was building computers for family members.

 

[hexonxonx]

Maybe it's a jersey thing, but as i said before, i don't know anyone who doesn't engage in some form of pirating or another. My best friend didn't know how to do it when i first met him because he's not too tech savvy, but then i yelled at him for paying for his music and taught him how to pirate and he's been a happy camper ever since.
I doubt all your friends are such staunch anti-pirates. They're probably torrenting as we speak.

His friends are probably like me. I would buy songs on my iPhone while at work or wherever I may be at the time and so because of that, they assumed that I paid for everything. Guarantee he is wrong and his friends are nowhere near being the honest people they appear to be.

 

[likemyorbs]

^^

Oh to be honest with you, I'll just say "hell with it". I've installed Microsoft Office OEM so many times on my computer that I actually had to call Microsoft to have them register it for me. I just told them that I was reinstalling Windows. I only did it 2-3 times though when I was building computers for family members.

To a lot of people here, that would be considered pirating. I do the same thing though, only difference is i never paid for it to begin with. But to those people, what you and i did are equally wrong. You installed it on relatives computers who didn't pay for it, therefore you've contributed to pirating.

 

[iStudentUK]

Yup, must be a jersey thing. Hopefully one day you will mature and be a man with integrity. I doubt it though. Have fun stealing and living in your moms basement.

Most people I know are in their mid-twenties, and most torrent/download. It's almost become standard practice in my age group. Despite your predictions none live in their mum's basements, most have moved out and many are in (or training for) 'professional' jobs like doctors, lawyers, teachers etc.

 

[wordoflife]

To a lot of people here, that would be considered pirating. I do the same thing though, only difference is i never paid for it to begin with. But to those people, what you and i did are equally wrong. You installed it on relatives computers who didn't pay for it, therefore you've contributed to pirating.

In my opinion, what you did was way worst, haha. But, I don't know. This is a weird topic.

 

[likemyorbs]

Most people I know are in their mid-twenties, and most torrent/download. It's almost become standard practice in my age group. Despite your predictions none live in their mum's basements, most have moved out and many are in (or training for) 'professional' jobs like doctors, lawyers, teachers etc.

Yes, but prejudging is fun isn't it?

In my opinion, what you did was way worst, haha.

That's because you're rationalizing, which makes you a terrible immoral person who lacks any moral fiber.

His friends are probably like me. I would buy songs on my iPhone while at work or wherever I may be at the time and so because of that, they assumed that I paid for everything. Guarantee he is wrong and his friends are nowhere near being the honest people they appear to be.

I would wager that you're probably right. I wonder if he would end those friendships after he finds out how many bootleg DVD's they bought in Chinatown.

 

[wordoflife]

That's because you're rationalizing, which makes you a terrible immoral person who lacks any moral fiber.

It sounds like you've got a good justification for pirating(jk), which I surprisingly agree with you about. Not the fact that I'm going to start pirating software (didn't know you could do this until a year or two ago), but the mindset of those who pirate that if buying one copy and installing it on a few PCs is pirating, then you might as well just not buy it in the first place since the end result is, well, pirating.

 

[szolr]

Some folks, on the other hand, employ a myriad of rationalizations,and astoundingly and painfully twisted logic to justify that stealing is not REALLY stealing.

Like this?..

Piracy is not stealing.

Or maybe like this?

Actually it helped me make a decision to add jail break detection to all of our apps and refuse to run. Since jail breaking enables piracy of iOS apps, we will make it just a little more painful to steal our stuff...

You're entitled to do that. And I'm entitled to use every means in my power to find a loophole in your system.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

You're entitled to do that. And I'm entitled to use every means in my power to find a loophole in your system.

I think you hit the nail right on the head. People really think they are entitled to anything and everything. Who, may I ask, entitles anyone to use any means in their power to just take whatever they want? What society do these people think they are part of?

 

[Hisdem]

I used to run cracked apps on my iPhone, but only the ones that Apple/Devs do not sell here. Location discrimination for Angry Birds? Please. I would happily pay for it, but how can I if they refuse to sell it?

 

[hexonxonx]

Actually it helped me make a decision to add jail break detection to all of our apps and refuse to run. Since jail breaking enables piracy of iOS apps, we will make it just a little more painful to steal our stuff...

You do realize that I have only seen one app where it was impossible to stop the jailbreak detection from taking place? Anything can be undone.

 

[Hellhammer]

Or maybe like this?

Image

Not the same. It's quite clear that piracy creates a copy, meaning that there won't be any disadvantages to the original owner (NOT creator). That image describes borrowing without a permission, which is something totally different.

 

[MOFS]

Well, you still have to remember that not all of us are.

I'm well aware of that Hellhammer, however my point remains. In this thread we have already seen the main reasons people pirate stuff ("nobody is hurt", "it hurts the big evil corporations(!)", "everyone does it"). Genuinely the most common reason why people pirate is cause they don't want to stump up the cash. In Dagless's case, there was a charitable donation and people still stole it. The honest to goodness truth is that people dont want to pay for the stuff.

 

[hexonxonx]

I'm well aware of that Hellhammer, however my point remains. In this thread we have already seen the main reasons people pirate stuff ("nobody is hurt", "it hurts the big evil corporations(!)", "everyone does it"). Genuinely the most common reason why people pirate is cause they don't want to stump up the cash. In Dagless's case, there was a charitable donation and people still stole it. The honest to goodness truth is that people dont want to pay for the stuff.

So keeping this in mind, has the developers really lost income due to these types of people?

 

[likemyorbs]

So keeping this in mind, has the developers really lost income due to these types of people?

Nope, they haven't. It really comes down to people using software that they technically don't have the right to use and the developer being upset about it. It's not lost revenue.

 

[MOFS]

So keeping this in mind, has the developers really lost income due to these types of people?

First of all, I think the responses to whether its morally right to pirate stuff are confusing the moral aspect (is it right/wrong) with the harm aspect (does doing this harm anyone?). The two aspects are not as intrinsically linked as people think.

To tackle your point, I would say developers (and cinemas and music shops and ...) have lost income. Imagine if no one pirated stuff. How would you see the latest film? At the cinema, or buying it. If no one pirated Microsoft Office? People would either get OpenOffice (and support the developer community ) or, like I did ultimately, buy a copy.* Pirating is not a victimless crime, as there has to be somewhere from which the act is devouring media from.

* just to clarify I went from Textedit to OpenOffice to an NHS discount version of Office - no pirate copies involved.

 

[Hisdem]

First of all, I think the responses to whether its morally right to pirate stuff are confusing the moral aspect (is it right/wrong) with the harm aspect (does doing this harm anyone?). The two aspects are not as intrinsically linked as people think.

To tackle your point, I would say developers (and cinemas and music shops and ...) have lost income. Imagine if no one pirated stuff. How would you see the latest film? At the cinema, or buying it. If no one pirated Microsoft Office? People would either get OpenOffice (and support the developer community ) or, like I did ultimately, buy a copy.* Pirating is not a victimless crime, as there has to be somewhere from which the act is devouring media from.

* just to clarify I went from Textedit to OpenOffice to an NHS discount version of Office - no pirate copies involved.

I do get your point, and for the software it is perfectly valid, but as for the movies, I think people would just borrow them, if not watch them at the cinema. I believe most people who don't pay for the things now wouldn't pay for them in any way. I know I wouldn't. I mean, assuming someone had, say, a copy of Photoshop, which is expensive, pirated, and used it just for fun. If pirating it wasn't an option, I bet you they wouldn't have Photoshop at all, because they would never pay what Adobe asks for it. So in the end, Adobe (in the example) lost a user, not income.

 

[Abyssgh0st]

See unfortunately Heilage I don't believe that's true for most people here. Why? Because most of the posters are from the US or UK, where Netflix and Lovefilm offer exactly that.

You're wrong.

Netflix offers previous seasons of limited shows.

I'm a very light TV watcher- Dexter, Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead.

Guess how many of those I can find on Netflix the day after it airs? None. What Heilage was referring to is completely different.

If I had a service where I could stream my favorite TV shows in decent quality (720p) the day after (or when) they air, I would pay for that. But that doesn't exist.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

So keeping this in mind, has the developers really lost income due to these types of people?

Nope, they haven't. It really comes down to people using software that they technically don't have the right to use and the developer being upset about it. It's not lost revenue.

Of course they have. Maybe the op can claim that he would never buy things he steals but of course other people do. If just one person was going to buy something he now stole, the developers lost money on that sale. Think of all the friends the op (maybe another poster, too lazy to look) claimed to have showed how to illegally download music that they used to buy. They still would have bought that music and that is lost revenue. No judgement here but it is also very black and white: its is lost income.

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You're wrong.

Netflix offers previous seasons of limited shows.

I'm a very light TV watcher- Dexter, Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead.

Guess how many of those I can find on Netflix the day after it airs? None. What Heilage was referring to is completely different.

If I had a service where I could stream my favorite TV shows in decent quality (720p) the day after (or when) they air, I would pay for that. But that doesn't exist.

You guys don't have hulu over there?

 

[Abyssgh0st]

Of course they have. Maybe the op can claim that he would never buy things he steals but of course other people do. If just one person was going to buy something he now stole, the developers lost money on that sale. Think of all the friends the op (maybe another poster, too lazy to look) claimed to have showed how to illegally download music that they used to buy. They still would have bought that music and that is lost revenue. No judgement here but it is also very black and white: its is lost income.

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You guys don't have hulu over there?

I don't know what 'over there' is, as I am in America. However, guess how many of the very popular shows I watch (the three aforementioned ones) are on Hulu (or Hulu Plus)? None.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

I don't know what 'over there' is, as I am in America. However, guess how many of the very popular shows I watch (the three aforementioned ones) are on Hulu (or Hulu Plus)? None.

Brain fart on the over there. I see your location and I don't know why I assumed you where from Europe or Asia or, you know, someplace over there....If you wanted a service that streamed these, can't you just pay for cable with a dvr and that's kind of the same thing.... And off topic, but just wondering.

 

[ender land]

Tell you what, when i'm CEO of enron i won't pirate anymore. And "stealing software" is an oxymoron. Copying bits of information is not stealing, because no one actually loses anything. I wouldn't have bought the software anyway, i would have used a free and lower quality alternative. This way i figured out how to get the expensive and high quality version without having to pay for it. Sad to you, not sad to me.

If you ever post a thread saying you suffered identity theft I am SO quoting this and not feeling sympathetic in the slightest...