Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The mouse is barbaric old tech. Ditch it now and join the modern world.
- Thread starter Macmamamac
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I'm the opposite, I can't find a good reason to use a Wacom Intuos at home. It has its benefits but without a specific use I couldn't imagine ever recommending it.
Never mind trackpads I would recommend a magic mouse over it, if nothing else for the gestures. Swipe between webpages, pull up mission control, switch between desktops, scroll around, etc for 5 minutes and you'll be back to using the mouse.
2 1/2" - 3" is all it takes with mouse acceleration and the appropriate sensitivity to move the cursor from one corner of the screen to the other on a 27" iMac. Your wrist won't leave the desk.
And if you ever even considered gaming or has anyone in the house that games. Forget it. For all I'm concerned it will it always be a secondary devices for specific task.
Its great for precision stuff but for generally task, documents, web browsing and research...no thanks. 300 hundred dollar solution looking for a problem.
Never mind trackpads I would recommend a magic mouse over it, if nothing else for the gestures. Swipe between webpages, pull up mission control, switch between desktops, scroll around, etc for 5 minutes and you'll be back to using the mouse.
2 1/2" - 3" is all it takes with mouse acceleration and the appropriate sensitivity to move the cursor from one corner of the screen to the other on a 27" iMac. Your wrist won't leave the desk.
And if you ever even considered gaming or has anyone in the house that games. Forget it. For all I'm concerned it will it always be a secondary devices for specific task.
Its great for precision stuff but for generally task, documents, web browsing and research...no thanks. 300 hundred dollar solution looking for a problem.
Agreed. While I like track pads and find them useful, I find a mouse easier to use.
The point is a tablet/pencil is better at the most fundamental of tasks like moving the cursor and dragging and dropping files.
If you play games with a mouse, then using a tablet/pencil will be better as well because your reaction times will be a lot better.
Its fallacy to believe it only excels in art programmes. Its better than the mouse and trackpad at everything. A trackpad should be a secondary device used for scrolling and force touch gestures.
8K is here. The big boys will be unveiling affordable-ish 8k TV's this January at CES.
Computer monitors should always be more advanced than TV's. Although, Japan Display and Sharp both have 8k's.
Last edited by a moderator:
Continue working with your tablet and stylus and be happy. As for me and others, we have our favourite tools for moving the cursor and it may not be to your liking. Perhaps one day someone will post a thread telling people to abandon tablets as a standard cursor device because it offers absolutely nothing for typical computer work over its counterparts.
I have to disagree with you. While you prefer a touchpad, I prefer a mouse. One size does not fit all, and in this case what you call barbaric and cruel, I call helpful and intuitive.
I don't see why you hate the mouse, if that input device is not to your liking, then then use something else. Just because you don't like it, means its no good for everyone else.
There are people looking for the silver bullet. And there's people with experience who see it's all the same old, same old. You make the impression of being a very shallow, opinionated, and not very observant person.
There's the old saying: People who think they know better about everything are very annoying to those of us who do.
You said that much more politely than I could ever do
Macmamamac, are you the same person who is registered on the 123macmini.com forums as "macmanmacman"?
If tablets became a standard way of navigating around desktop for the ordinary user, it would completly transform the desktop experience and bring it out of the 70's and into the modern world.
Holding a pen is far more comfortable, intuitive and precise than mouse, and if the technology became standard it would revolutionise the desktop experience.
Tablets are better than a mouse even at the most basic of tasks, but they still could be so much more.
No, its not me.
There are people looking for the silver bullet. And there's people with experience who see it's all the same old, same old. You make the impression of being a very shallow, opinionated, and not very observant person.
There's the old saying: People who think they know better about everything are very annoying to those of us who do.
You said that much more politely than I could ever do
After years of using a mouse and years of using a tablet, i can objectively say a tablet is a superior way to navigate around a desktop.
Anyone who is comfortable with a tablet will tell you this, i am just telling people to give it a try.
Don't be so offended. I am just trying to help people.
Last edited by a moderator:
I'd like to believe you regarding use of the tablet. I may well try one, but have serious doubts.
I purchased a Magic trackpad some time back, but after a week or two just couldn't get on with it. Imho it was about as magic as Paul Daniels on a bad day.
Although very keen on new technology, I'm told I'm somewhat conservative in my ways. And I guess that's true, as I bought a high-end fountain pen 2 years ago, and use it whenever I need to write or just take notes. I didn't realise what pleasure could be had simply from writing with a superb manual instrument.
I purchased a Magic trackpad some time back, but after a week or two just couldn't get on with it. Imho it was about as magic as Paul Daniels on a bad day.
Although very keen on new technology, I'm told I'm somewhat conservative in my ways. And I guess that's true, as I bought a high-end fountain pen 2 years ago, and use it whenever I need to write or just take notes. I didn't realise what pleasure could be had simply from writing with a superb manual instrument.
Never thought I joined this forum for the humor......what a bonus.
Presentation is everything....you failed miserably.
Heartily disagree with everything you have to say about the mouse. It is by far the most comfortable and accurate way of navigating ones' way around a computer in this or the last century and for all accurate or productive work.
I'm with you on this entirely - I love a fountain pen, such a tactile experience. I too bought a trackpad but just couldn't get on with it so it went back. The only gesture's I use are those where one doesn't need a computer.
As Monty Python would wholeheartedly agree, "He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
The thing which makes a tablet a completely different experience from an ordinary trackpad is the pencil/stylus.
In my set up the Magic Trackpad 2 is used only for scrolling and Force Touch, but its not strictly necessary because the Wacom tablet is also a trackpad as well. However, in combo everything is just a lot easier and intuitive. Its the dream navigation set up.
Definitely give it a try. I use Wacom Intuos Pros but if you aren't a graphics professional then an ordinary Wacom Intuos will be just fine. The small one isn't very expensive at all.
http://www.wacom.com/en-gb/products/pen-tablets/intuos
Just remember to give it a few days and i promise you will never go back to a mouse.
Looking forward, Apple will no doubt integrate the Apple Pencil with the trackpad, which will make Wacom tablets and the mouse completely obsolete. At least for Apple users anyway.
( I've already emailed Tim Cook letting him know that the mouse is obsolete and that integrating the Apple Pencil with the trackpad is an absolute priority. )
Last edited:
I can't believe someone wants us to use a stylus to navigate the screen of a computer. How old school resorting to hands and dexterity to accomplish such a trivial task. What ancient technology. I'll just slip on my ACME OCCG's (Ocular Controlled Cursor Glasses) and just look at the screen and make it happen.
All kidding aside, this notion of outdated technology is about as silly/stupid as it comes. Let's examine OSX. It is built upon an older software technology yet the OP doesn't suggest abandoning OSX. Nor does the OP suggest abandoning keyboards or 2D screens etc. The reality remains that OP has some sort of fixation on tablets which are for many not easier than a mouse.
For me the order of ease (including any notion of strain) is as follows
1) trackball - requires no movement of forearm and minimal to the wrist. Some will prefer a mouse over this device. This device is the least accurate for fine work (along with touch pad) but for daily typical user cursor movement, it is a reasonable choice. Bigger is better with trackballs.
2) mouse - intuitive and some are more ergonomic than others with scroll wheels etc and "function buttons" and there are many models designed for different purposes.
3) touch pads - requires minor learning curve and not a fit for everyone. Requires moderate dexterity. Low on the detail capable performance list.
4) Tablet - requires, finger, hand, wrist and depending on size may require forearm movement. Excellent for fine detail. Medium sized Intuos appears to be the best combination of precision, ease of articulation and minimized forearm movement to perform typical tasks plus detailed work.
5) Write capable screens (Cintiq as example) similar to tablet in gestures as one uses a styles on a screen that poses as
a monitor. Like the tablet, the larger the surface, the more extreme the gestures to accomplish minimal tasks unless one adjusts the "distance" to be a smaller subset of the actual screen real estate.
6) Odd devices - these include the old IBM "J" key mini joystick on their Thinkpad laptops. The mini joystick sat near the J key and was used to move the cursor along with using a touch pad for commands. It was popular with many and disliked by many. I found it quite useful on a laptop.
I base my above list on both my own work over the years and a great deal of reading as related to work place ergonomics and efficiency. Of the latter, I have dealt with this as part of a task for a particular job.
All kidding aside, this notion of outdated technology is about as silly/stupid as it comes. Let's examine OSX. It is built upon an older software technology yet the OP doesn't suggest abandoning OSX. Nor does the OP suggest abandoning keyboards or 2D screens etc. The reality remains that OP has some sort of fixation on tablets which are for many not easier than a mouse.
For me the order of ease (including any notion of strain) is as follows
1) trackball - requires no movement of forearm and minimal to the wrist. Some will prefer a mouse over this device. This device is the least accurate for fine work (along with touch pad) but for daily typical user cursor movement, it is a reasonable choice. Bigger is better with trackballs.
2) mouse - intuitive and some are more ergonomic than others with scroll wheels etc and "function buttons" and there are many models designed for different purposes.
3) touch pads - requires minor learning curve and not a fit for everyone. Requires moderate dexterity. Low on the detail capable performance list.
4) Tablet - requires, finger, hand, wrist and depending on size may require forearm movement. Excellent for fine detail. Medium sized Intuos appears to be the best combination of precision, ease of articulation and minimized forearm movement to perform typical tasks plus detailed work.
5) Write capable screens (Cintiq as example) similar to tablet in gestures as one uses a styles on a screen that poses as
a monitor. Like the tablet, the larger the surface, the more extreme the gestures to accomplish minimal tasks unless one adjusts the "distance" to be a smaller subset of the actual screen real estate.
6) Odd devices - these include the old IBM "J" key mini joystick on their Thinkpad laptops. The mini joystick sat near the J key and was used to move the cursor along with using a touch pad for commands. It was popular with many and disliked by many. I found it quite useful on a laptop.
I base my above list on both my own work over the years and a great deal of reading as related to work place ergonomics and efficiency. Of the latter, I have dealt with this as part of a task for a particular job.
Last edited:
I'm not going to say I disagree with you because I've never used one for any period of time but I have a hard time believing it's easier to use than a mouse. It's like when everyone was harping on about the Dvorak keyboard layout, tried that thing for like 2 months and it still felt completely alien.
No, I've said multiple times on here i use both hands.
My weaker hand is for the Magic Trackpad 2, although the trackpad could just as well be replaced with the Magic Mouse as both have the same basic functions.
The pencil is the most natural and precise implement human beings use and a mouse does not even come close.
Desktop interaction technology has been held back massively because of the limitations of the mouse. Do away with the mouse and replace it with a pencil and you have completely different, more precise and intuitive experience with a far greater range of possibilities.
If the desktop was controlled by a precision device like pencil, which is even more precise than a finger tip, then who knows where the technology could go.
One thing is clear, the mouse is an ancient way of interacting with a computer.
One criticise i do have about the Wacom i am using is the pencil/stylus is bit clunky. And the tablet a bit big. But, these are design issues. The Apple Pencil is joy to hold, so i am certain whatever Apple implement will be far better than Wacom.
Plus, with a pencil, it opens up the possibilities of controlling your desktop from an iPad pro. So the iPad becomes a tablet, a Cintiq and a separate iPad all at once. Your iPad becomes your desktop, and your desktop becomes your iPad, depending on whats more suitable for the time. Mirroring is not feasible if you have different input devices for different techs.
The mouse just cannot deliver any exciting possibilities going forward. Its obsolete.
Last edited:
Unlike the Dvorak keyboard layout, people have been holding pencils ( or quills ) for thousands of years.
This is not some fad input device. Its basically digital pencil technology.
Heres an experiment. Write your name with your finger on an iPad or smart phone. Now write your name with a mouse. Then, just pick up a pencil/pen and write your name on piece of paper.
What feels more natural?
The pencil is not going anywhere. As long as human beings have hands, then the most intuitive and comfortable way of manually inputting information is always going to be done with a pencil.
Macmamamac, I am glad you enjoy your Apple Pencil. I see it has great value to you. How well does it serve you when using a Word Processor or crunching spreadsheets? Does the Apple Pencil work well for doing tracing or dot mapping (cartography, technical drawings etc. that are not in the computer but on paper) etc.? I only bring these up to mention that the Apple Pencil is a fine tool but for many, it really has little value over what they are using now.
When people went from the famous "C: prompt" to GUI, or the simpler GUI computers to advanced computers, some things didn't change and not because of a cursor tool. They simply had a function that is still used today. I would suggest you might consider rendering your points without superlatives, near superlatives and words like "obsolete." They do you a disservice. Perhaps share with us the things the Apple Pencil can do that other devices either fail at or are more difficult (thus showing the ease of use of your Apple Pencil).
I can't help think of the movie Minority Report where Tom Cruise uses massive arm gestures to sort through some large scale images. While there was a cool factor, it really didn't do much towards aiding in the process of sort and select. I also recall that Macs were given to some students in poorer countries and they all instantly took to the mouse over the key commands (which are, when learned) far faster than a mouse or any object that has to be moved to do a command.
When people went from the famous "C: prompt" to GUI, or the simpler GUI computers to advanced computers, some things didn't change and not because of a cursor tool. They simply had a function that is still used today. I would suggest you might consider rendering your points without superlatives, near superlatives and words like "obsolete." They do you a disservice. Perhaps share with us the things the Apple Pencil can do that other devices either fail at or are more difficult (thus showing the ease of use of your Apple Pencil).
I can't help think of the movie Minority Report where Tom Cruise uses massive arm gestures to sort through some large scale images. While there was a cool factor, it really didn't do much towards aiding in the process of sort and select. I also recall that Macs were given to some students in poorer countries and they all instantly took to the mouse over the key commands (which are, when learned) far faster than a mouse or any object that has to be moved to do a command.
What's the old saying - "Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one!"
The Good Thing™ is that there are options, with a wide variety of input devices.
Feeling "natural" does not necessarily result in good usability, does it?
Now that you have mentioned the (main) limitation of the stylus, that you handle like a pencil or other stick-like device. That makes it useful for drawing and writing, fair enough, but limited to some degree by your hand movement (dexterity), too. And, you call that an advantage. I guess you can have it both ways, but I don't see it.
Amazingly enough (to you), not everyone will share your opinion - particularly if others consider your opinion to be not too well thought out, and even anal-retentive in some ways.
The Good Thing™ is that there are options, with a wide variety of input devices.
Feeling "natural" does not necessarily result in good usability, does it?
Now that you have mentioned the (main) limitation of the stylus, that you handle like a pencil or other stick-like device. That makes it useful for drawing and writing, fair enough, but limited to some degree by your hand movement (dexterity), too. And, you call that an advantage. I guess you can have it both ways, but I don't see it.
Amazingly enough (to you), not everyone will share your opinion - particularly if others consider your opinion to be not too well thought out, and even anal-retentive in some ways.
Whatever limitations there are with a hand holding a pencil, they are massively magnified by a hand holding a mouse; the mouse being a cumbersome and imprecise object.
The mouse was a wonderful invention that allowed ordinary non tech people to interact with computers for the first time. But its had its day.
I'm not saying it can't perform tasks, I'm just saying its not as good as performing tasks as newer technologies.
I am also saying having the mouse as a standard input device has, and still is, seriously hindering desktop technology.
Last edited by a moderator:
When will you add: In my opinion... ?
Well, yes, you very neatly approached part of my point - the limitations that the pencil has, are massively magnified by the hand holding the ... pencil.
Still, just opinions. On my side, too.