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The NBA 2010-2011 Season
- Thread starter JulesNYC
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That's a dumb trade for NYC. I'd rather NOT have Melo and keep the pieces that keep the team ticking. They get Melo, Billups, and a few players I'm unfamiliar with. Billups is getting old, so the trade is essentially for Melo.
And they've traded so many draft picks away, that they may have traded away a future Carmelo Anthony.
And they've traded so many draft picks away, that they may have traded away a future Carmelo Anthony.
That's a dumb trade for NYC. I'd rather NOT have Melo and keep the pieces that keep the team ticking. They get Melo, Billups, and a few players I'm unfamiliar with. Billups is getting old, so the trade is essentially for Melo.
And they've traded so many draft picks away, that they may have traded away a future Carmelo Anthony.
Its only one first rounder going to Denver. Regardless, its a bold move by the Knicks, and a dumb one at that. They ended up giving up Randolph, Gallinari, Mozgov, Felton, Chandler, Curry, a pick, and cash for Anthony and Billups. Billups doesnt want to be there, and Anthony and Amare wont work together as good as some think. Neither are good defensively, and both need the ball in their hands to be effective.
The Paul thing wont be going down either. They have nothing to offer New Orleans, and with Paul still having two years left on his deal, and a new CBA probably changing the cap situation, I dont see how they can add someone like Paul, especially when they have two players making over $20 million per.
No no, I meant that in the past, the Knicks traded away 1st Round picks for quick fixes, and it really bit them in the rear if their goal has been to rebuild. Well, after Isiah left, there has bee lots of good decision making on the Knicks part. Also, they had so much money remaining under the cap that they could get Felton, Stoudamire, and keep some other key pieces.
But really, what are they going to do without Felton's 9 apg? Also, they lost something like 35-40 ppg by losing Gallinari and Chandler.
And like you said: Billups is from Denver, and never wanted to play outside of Denver again. He's old, and won't contribute much in 2-3 years. And he'll probably want to go back to Denver.
Personally, I think Denver made out like a bandit. They got a LOT in return, and most of the players they got are around 25 years old and not even in their prime.
Oh, and the Russian NJ Nets owner was a genius. He only expressed his interest in Carmelo again in order to make the Knicks pay too much to acquire 'Melo.
But really, what are they going to do without Felton's 9 apg? Also, they lost something like 35-40 ppg by losing Gallinari and Chandler.
And like you said: Billups is from Denver, and never wanted to play outside of Denver again. He's old, and won't contribute much in 2-3 years. And he'll probably want to go back to Denver.
Personally, I think Denver made out like a bandit. They got a LOT in return, and most of the players they got are around 25 years old and not even in their prime.
Oh, and the Russian NJ Nets owner was a genius. He only expressed his interest in Carmelo again in order to make the Knicks pay too much to acquire 'Melo.
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If I were the Knicks I would not have done this either. You know that New York is where Anthony wanted to go. He would not have signed an extension for anywhere else. So wait until he is a free agent and sign him in the offseason. That way you don't give up so many players and picks.
man, denver made out like bandits.
basically they traded missing 6 months of Melo rent, in a team that is going to the playoffs anyway and that wouldn't have gone to the finals anyway, for a full team made of young exciting talent.
obviously Melo is better then any single one of the talents coming their way (although i'd like to revisti this in 2 years to see were gallinari is at, the kid can ball) but he was gone in 4 months anyways.
the knicks blew it in my opinion. if this was a middle-of-the-contract trade it could have made sense, but for an expiring it was insane. I guess Dolan and Isaiah meddling ruined it for the knicks and i wouldn't be surrirsed if walsh walks at the end.
we'll see. i have seen the knicks several times this year and it was fun and exciting. i actually have tickets for the bucks game so i'll have a better idea
basically they traded missing 6 months of Melo rent, in a team that is going to the playoffs anyway and that wouldn't have gone to the finals anyway, for a full team made of young exciting talent.
obviously Melo is better then any single one of the talents coming their way (although i'd like to revisti this in 2 years to see were gallinari is at, the kid can ball) but he was gone in 4 months anyways.
the knicks blew it in my opinion. if this was a middle-of-the-contract trade it could have made sense, but for an expiring it was insane. I guess Dolan and Isaiah meddling ruined it for the knicks and i wouldn't be surrirsed if walsh walks at the end.
we'll see. i have seen the knicks several times this year and it was fun and exciting. i actually have tickets for the bucks game so i'll have a better idea
I agree. I'm not sure why the Knicks couldn't wait until the offseason. I can understand why the Nuggets wanted to, since they save a bunch of money and get players in return instead of losing Anthony for nothing. Even the CBA situation would seem to give NY an incentive to wait.
The only thing I can think of is that NY was genuinely concerned that they would lose him to the Nets instead. If so, then Anthony played it brilliantly by pretending he might consider them and even meeting with them to force the Knicks' hand.
Winners:
- Anthony gets to play where he wanted and can still sign the max extension he turned down in Denver.
- The Nuggets save a lot of money and get younger, especially at the PG position. On paper they're good enough to make the first round of the playoffs this year, which is about where they would probably have ended up anyway.
- New Jersey forced the Knicks into a risky move and retained their cap space for next year's free agents, even if the new CBA has a lower cap.
Losers:
- The Knicks give away most of their proven players and end up with a team of Anthony, Stoudemire, an aging Billups, and not much else. The only thing I'm interested in is to see what kind of numbers Carmelo Anthony can put up in D'Antoni's offense.
- The media for getting suckered into pressuring the Knicks on Anthony's behalf. All of that hype, all of those rumors, and we got the same outcome we expected six months ago.
The only thing I can think of is that NY was genuinely concerned that they would lose him to the Nets instead. If so, then Anthony played it brilliantly by pretending he might consider them and even meeting with them to force the Knicks' hand.
Winners:
- Anthony gets to play where he wanted and can still sign the max extension he turned down in Denver.
- The Nuggets save a lot of money and get younger, especially at the PG position. On paper they're good enough to make the first round of the playoffs this year, which is about where they would probably have ended up anyway.
- New Jersey forced the Knicks into a risky move and retained their cap space for next year's free agents, even if the new CBA has a lower cap.
Losers:
- The Knicks give away most of their proven players and end up with a team of Anthony, Stoudemire, an aging Billups, and not much else. The only thing I'm interested in is to see what kind of numbers Carmelo Anthony can put up in D'Antoni's offense.
- The media for getting suckered into pressuring the Knicks on Anthony's behalf. All of that hype, all of those rumors, and we got the same outcome we expected six months ago.
After seeing Conan O Brian, Melo was already traded...even though he didn't admitted it!
Still, I see no major shift in either conference..
Still, I see no major shift in either conference..
The Utah Jazz and New Jersey Nets are working out a deal for Deron Williams?
http://www.northjersey.com/sports/p...e_to_deal_for_point_guard_Deron_Williams.html
http://www.northjersey.com/sports/p...e_to_deal_for_point_guard_Deron_Williams.html
Deron Williams has been traded and just left the team bus stunned and said it was not his choice. Declined and interview until he figures it all out.
I can't decide if this is a good deal or not.
They're getting a great player in Williams, but they had to trade a good player (Harris), a very young and talented rookie (with a poor attitude, Favors), and 2 draft picks, and two draft picks on top of that? And those draft picks are bound to be Top 10, since one is from the Nets, and the other from Golden State!
Like the Knicks, I think NJ may have overpaid a bit.
They're getting a great player in Williams, but they had to trade a good player (Harris), a very young and talented rookie (with a poor attitude, Favors), and 2 draft picks, and two draft picks on top of that? And those draft picks are bound to be Top 10, since one is from the Nets, and the other from Golden State!
Like the Knicks, I think NJ may have overpaid a bit.
god the NBA has become such a joke. it was one thing when KG and Ray came to Boston to try to win, they were both guys in their 30s who wanted one last chance.
now all the young superstars who are just getting in to their primes are colluding and joining up to try to win (see: James, Lebron; Wade, Dwayne; Anthony, Carmelo). it's becoming a joke.
the NBA should just contract down to 10 teams full of superstars, since thats the direction everything is going in...
now all the young superstars who are just getting in to their primes are colluding and joining up to try to win (see: James, Lebron; Wade, Dwayne; Anthony, Carmelo). it's becoming a joke.
the NBA should just contract down to 10 teams full of superstars, since thats the direction everything is going in...
Especially if Deron Williams doesn't resign with the Nets when he's a free agent after next season.
Breaking News from Yahoo Sports:
Wow, poor Baron. He goes from playing with the most exciting rookie in years and throwing lobs out of a sunroof in LA....to playing in Cleveland and dishing to JJ Hickson.
Wow, poor Baron. He goes from playing with the most exciting rookie in years and throwing lobs out of a sunroof in LA....to playing in Cleveland and dishing to JJ Hickson.
I don't see why the players doing it is a problem. In the past the only ones who could assemble a group of superstars were the owners, and only a few owners really had the resources to pull it off. We hear guys like Magic and Bird and Jordan saying that they never would have done such a thing back in their day. What they're forgetting is that they never had to. Except for MJ's early seasons, all of them had far better teammates than LeBron or Carmelo ever had. These days players have the power of free agency to decide where they want to play, so they do. Don't we want them to want to win?
And I don't think KG and Allen should get a free pass because they suffered longer on bad teams. They stuck it out because they thought their previous teams would get better, but eventually realized that they wouldn't. How many great players stuck it out on teams that never won a title? Barkley, Malone, Stockton, and Mullin come to mind. Why should LeBron be as patient as those guys were? Because the fans want them to be loyal? The same fans that boo a star player who misses six shots in a row during a game? The players can be forgiven for thinking that the fans are demanding a very fickle version of loyalty.
The one issue that I think IS a problem is that it's the same teams that are able to amass star players year after year. I'm glad the Lakers are one of them, but if I rooted for Denver or Cleveland or Atlanta, I'd be wondering when my turn is coming. The NBA can't have large numbers of fans becoming convinced that their teams exist solely so that the future championship teams have opponents to play.
agree with aloofman.
i think actually boston's big three is where it all started, so they are the most responsible for the trend.
the others just followed in their step but anticipated to get to the same point before their window of opportunity closed.
the franchise-tag that is floating around for the new CBA might take care of that. although the players hate it.
the point is that the bigger markets/more storied franchises will always be preferred destinations, unless they introduce very strict rules to prevent that.
it's fair that the athletes would like to go where history was and is made.
everyone in their (very large) shoes would do the same: who in their right mind would choose (everything else being the same) milwaukee over NY, boston or LA?
in the case of anthony, when the big market happens to be your hometown and a historic franchise which has been in shambles for a long time and on the resurgence, where you can come and play the hero, it really is a no brainer.
went to the game last night. it was fun and the garden was roaring. hard to judge before a few games, since the new guys arrived in the afternoon and went straight to the game, so they'll need time to build any sort of chemistry.
i wasn't very impressed by melo, to be honest. he scored a lot but on 200 shots, while i really liked billups. i think he def has a couple more good seasons in him.
you can already tell though that the new knicks will win games because they out-talent the opponents, not beause they out-play them. in this sense, the previous version with gallo and chandler was more fun to watch: i fear a one-on-one-fest from now on, at least for a while.
that said they are clearly a better team now (still need depth and at least one decent big guy) and i think they have a shot a t the second round.
in the various trades:
-i think NY got better, just they could have waited and gotten a LOT better (basically the current team plus gallo and mozgov).
-denver was a definitive winner, as they would have lost melo anyways and got a botload of talent back, basically they rebuilt in one season. i hope they get together in time to stay in the playoffs picture, and i think they will. they will be very fun to watch, i think.
- nets got their first star and provided that d-will extends it was worth it. you need one star to build the team aroundand start the new era in brooklyn
- utah clearly had to get rid of deron, so i suppose it was a good return. it all hinges on the picks, as i think harris and favors are a bit overrated
- clips/cavs i don't know really, it seems a contract dump for the clips, to open cap space. clips are givin an unprotected pick this year, but it should be ~9-10, so nothing earth-shattering in this year's very weak draft (surprised it's not top 2-3 protected, though). cavs were going nowhere and get the pick and a resurgent baron, so they upgrade (possibly?) the PG position and get a good pick. good move for them
i think actually boston's big three is where it all started, so they are the most responsible for the trend.
the others just followed in their step but anticipated to get to the same point before their window of opportunity closed.
the franchise-tag that is floating around for the new CBA might take care of that. although the players hate it.
the point is that the bigger markets/more storied franchises will always be preferred destinations, unless they introduce very strict rules to prevent that.
it's fair that the athletes would like to go where history was and is made.
everyone in their (very large) shoes would do the same: who in their right mind would choose (everything else being the same) milwaukee over NY, boston or LA?
in the case of anthony, when the big market happens to be your hometown and a historic franchise which has been in shambles for a long time and on the resurgence, where you can come and play the hero, it really is a no brainer.
went to the game last night. it was fun and the garden was roaring. hard to judge before a few games, since the new guys arrived in the afternoon and went straight to the game, so they'll need time to build any sort of chemistry.
i wasn't very impressed by melo, to be honest. he scored a lot but on 200 shots, while i really liked billups. i think he def has a couple more good seasons in him.
you can already tell though that the new knicks will win games because they out-talent the opponents, not beause they out-play them. in this sense, the previous version with gallo and chandler was more fun to watch: i fear a one-on-one-fest from now on, at least for a while.
that said they are clearly a better team now (still need depth and at least one decent big guy) and i think they have a shot a t the second round.
in the various trades:
-i think NY got better, just they could have waited and gotten a LOT better (basically the current team plus gallo and mozgov).
-denver was a definitive winner, as they would have lost melo anyways and got a botload of talent back, basically they rebuilt in one season. i hope they get together in time to stay in the playoffs picture, and i think they will. they will be very fun to watch, i think.
- nets got their first star and provided that d-will extends it was worth it. you need one star to build the team aroundand start the new era in brooklyn
- utah clearly had to get rid of deron, so i suppose it was a good return. it all hinges on the picks, as i think harris and favors are a bit overrated
- clips/cavs i don't know really, it seems a contract dump for the clips, to open cap space. clips are givin an unprotected pick this year, but it should be ~9-10, so nothing earth-shattering in this year's very weak draft (surprised it's not top 2-3 protected, though). cavs were going nowhere and get the pick and a resurgent baron, so they upgrade (possibly?) the PG position and get a good pick. good move for them
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As a Utah fan I got to admit that when I heard about his I was just shocked and I couldn't believe that Kevin O'Conner would do this. Deron Williams was the star and clearly the best player for Utah and Utah would be nowhere with him. After calming down a little bit and being on the phone all day with people just talking about this I began to realize what a good deal Utah actually got. Devin Harris who is a good point guard that hopefully will do better with talent around him. Favors has potential but to be honest I don't see it. I'm just going with what everyone is saying on him. Two first round draft picks, one from New Jersey and the other from Golden State. Ya that's a good deal for the best point guard in the league that most likely wasn't going to resign with Utah. I'm glad we are actually going to get something for him and not end up like Cleveland or Toronto.
Nets fan here. One of the first round picks the Jazz got is almost guaranteed not to be lottery pick and may not be a first round pick in the end. It's lottery in 2012 and top 10 protected for a couple of seasons. If it doesn't reach Utah by a certain period it will be became two second round picks. The 2011 draft sucks so it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to give up a 2011 first round pick. Most likely won't be a top 5 pick anyway.
Devin Harris is injury prone but hasn't been out much this season. Good scorer and a suspect passer. Don't think Favors will be an All-Star but could become very good defensive player. Offensively don't see much. Minutes are low because Avery Johnson was taking it slow with him. Foul trouble as well but even when he wasn't he would get little playing time. Even Devin Harris was playing a low amount of minutes this season with the Nets. 32 MPG isn't much for 17 win team.
Devin Harris is injury prone but hasn't been out much this season. Good scorer and a suspect passer. Don't think Favors will be an All-Star but could become very good defensive player. Offensively don't see much. Minutes are low because Avery Johnson was taking it slow with him. Foul trouble as well but even when he wasn't he would get little playing time. Even Devin Harris was playing a low amount of minutes this season with the Nets. 32 MPG isn't much for 17 win team.
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I have been an NBA fan all twenty years of my life but can someone please explain what protected picks mean.
It means the team that has traded the pick is protected in case the pick turns out to be a lottery pick. So, in the example above, if the Jazz tank the rest of the season and end up in the lottery for 2011 draft, they are protected and won't have to trade the pick to NJ. Instead they would trade a lower pick.
I'm pretty sure that's the idea at least.
Jazz won't be sending any picks to New Jersey. If Golden State has a Top 7 pick in 2012, Utah won't get the pick. If Golden State has a Top 10 pick in 2013, Utah gets a 2nd round pick in 2013 & 2015. So New Jersey could end up trading one 1st round pick, two 2nd round picks, Devin Harris & Derrick Favors for Deron Williams.
Except for Melo I don't get any of the trades.
Especially Baron Davis, Perkins, and Golden State making moves for Troy Murphy.
And I really feel bad for Utah fans. That team has just fallen apart over the past couple years.
Especially Baron Davis, Perkins, and Golden State making moves for Troy Murphy.
And I really feel bad for Utah fans. That team has just fallen apart over the past couple years.