The new Mac mini is almost certainly coming

[The_Interloper]

They seem disappointed because they’re comparing the M1 mini to the i7 mini. That’s not what this mini is replacing. This mini is replacing the i3 mini, and by those standards it vastly outshines.

When we get an M1X mini next year that replaces the i7 then people will understand. This has to be done in phases.

But what will it cost? The RAM is now soldered and going from 8Gb to 16Gb now costs $200. 😳 That‘s $200 for 8Gb RAM over base config. So where is this going? 2 less Thunderbolt ports, non-upgradeable RAM and in-house processors that cost as much as Intel chips. No Boot Camp/Parallels/VMs etc and loads of iOS apps...oh, and no eGPU support (or so it currently seems).

 

[hagjohn]

2020 Mini - I do have to say that 2 Thunderbolt/USB 4 ports is dumb. They should have dumped USB A and kept 4 Thunderbolt/USB 4 ports.

 

[Maximara]

But what will it cost? The RAM is now soldered and going from 8Gb to 16Gb now costs $200. 😳 That‘s $200 for 8Gb RAM over base config. So where is this going? 2 less Thunderbolt ports, non-upgradeable RAM and in-house processors that cost as much as Intel chips. No Boot Camp/Parallels/VMs etc and loads of iOS apps...oh, and no eGPU support (or so it currently seems).

Actually that part is not correct. Yes there is no boot camp but we know that VMs that are ARM based are possible (Apple demoed a Linux VM back in July). As for Parallels "A new version of Parallels Desktop for Mac that can run on Mac with Apple M1 chip is already in active development." - Parallels Desktop for Mac with Apple M1 chip

So you can do ARM Linux VMs (I assume right out of the box) and Parallels is coming. As for Bootcamp ZDnet explained why for the majority of people that is not a big deal.

Con:
"You lose the ability to run Windows and Mac apps at the same time. You lose the ability to copy and paste between Mac and Windows applications. You lose the ability to spin up multiple configurations of Windows depending on what you need. You lose the ability to move your entire Windows installation to another machine merely by copying a file. You lose flexibility."

Pro:
"But you do save about a hundred bucks with Boot Camp because you don't have to buy a virtualization application like Parallels."

Also even if you could use bootcamp it would be for ARM Windows not x86 Windows and not only is there not x86-x64 translator until 2021 but from what I have heard Microsoft's x86-x32 translator is less then stellar. That is without pointing out that odds are ARM Windows couldn't make the most of the M1.

On a comical side note. If the M series lasts to M5 then we can make jokes about going as new Project Star Trek with "The Ultimate Computer"

 

[Micky Do]

627 pages and over 15,000 posts about the arrival of a new mac mini, and when it does finally arrive, most people seem disappointed. You wouldn't want to be doing standup for an audience full of macrumors members

This thread has a long history of disappointed dilettantes.......

Plenty of folks will be pleased to see the return of a Mac Mini that has forsaken pro pretensions, and returned to more consumer friendly pricing and specs.

 

[MrH42]

Multiple monitors. They don't go into details but sounds like only one monitor is supported on the TB ports.

That's what the Apple rep told me.

All of this supposed power, and they hamstrung the thing on monitors completely. Really weird.

 

[Maximara]

Multiple monitors. They don't go into details but sounds like only one monitor is supported on the TB ports.

That's what the Apple rep told me.

All of this supposed power, and they hamstrung the thing on monitors completely. Really weird.

I looked at some of the current TB monitors and found this piece of information:

LG UltraFine 4K Display: A single Thunderbolt 3 cable (included) provides up to 85W of charging power to your MacBook Pro or MacBook Air with Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports. The display has two Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports, and you can use one to connect to another 4K display.

Perhaps I am missing something but from that you could have two LG UltraFine 4K Displays - one off each of the Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C)s and daisy chain another LG UltraFine 4K Display off of that for a total offer monitors (use the HDMI for a fifth) and have two Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) left over (one on each monitor) for other devices.

Now there is also this:

LG UltraFine 5K Display: A single Thunderbolt 3 cable (included) charges your MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports. And three downstream USB-C ports (5 Gbps) offer additional connectivity and power to compatible devices and accessories.

I wonder if the Apple rep was thinking about the LG UltraFine 5K Display because per Apple's own website he was clearly talking nonsense if you were asking about a LG UltraFine 4K Display.

 

[The_Interloper]

This thread has a long history of disappointed dilettantes.......

Plenty of folks will be pleased to see the return of a Mac Mini that has forsaken pro pretensions, and returned to more consumer friendly pricing and specs.

There's nothing consumer friendly here, pricing or otherwise. Soldered, non-upgradeable RAM and storage, 4 "high-efficiency" cores which are pointless on a machine that doesn't run on battery and a staggering $200 for a $30 8Gb memory upgrade. Oh, and they've removed two Thunderbolt ports, eGPU support and faster Ethernet options. Really consumer friendly.

 

[The_Interloper]

Actually that part is not correct. Yes there is no boot camp but we know that VMs that are ARM based are possible (Apple demoed a Linux VM back in July). As for Parallels "A new version of Parallels Desktop for Mac that can run on Mac with Apple M1 chip is already in active development." - Parallels Desktop for Mac with Apple M1 chip

So you can do ARM Linux VMs (I assume right out of the box) and Parallels is coming. As for Bootcamp ZDnet explained why for the majority of people that is not a big deal.

Con:
"You lose the ability to run Windows and Mac apps at the same time. You lose the ability to copy and paste between Mac and Windows applications. You lose the ability to spin up multiple configurations of Windows depending on what you need. You lose the ability to move your entire Windows installation to another machine merely by copying a file. You lose flexibility."

Pro:
"But you do save about a hundred bucks with Boot Camp because you don't have to buy a virtualization application like Parallels."

Also even if you could use bootcamp it would be for ARM Windows not x86 Windows and not only is there not x86-x64 translator until 2021 but from what I have heard Microsoft's x86-x32 translator is less then stellar. That is without pointing out that odds are ARM Windows couldn't make the most of the M1.

On a comical side note. If the M series lasts to M5 then we can make jokes about going as new Project Star Trek with "The Ultimate Computer"

I was referring to x86 VM support.

 

[Maximara]

I was referring to x86 VM support.

There is nothing that says that the upcoming Universal binary version of Parallels Desktop for Mac can't do x86 VM support. This is ignoring Hangover the ARM to x86 part of Wine. So I covered that.

 

[The_Interloper]

There is nothing that says that the upcoming Universal binary version of Parallels Desktop for Mac can't do x86 VM support.

I'll refer you to what I wrote in this thread.

The new version of Parallels Desktop will not support an x86 VM. It may be able to do emulation, who knows? But that's not an acceptably performant solution.

 

[Partron22]

Rosetta 2? That means all my software is doomed. Although the new Mini is cute, and has some nice specs, I'm not sure it's worth the $premium to stay locked into the Apple ecosystem. Ubuntu's running fine downstairs on my 4gB Pi4 as a music server, web surfer, and Doc writer; For about $150 total including SSD's. The new Mini cannot compete with that.

 

[saulinpa]

I looked at some of the current TB monitors and found this piece of information:

LG UltraFine 4K Display: A single Thunderbolt 3 cable (included) provides up to 85W of charging power to your MacBook Pro or MacBook Air with Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports. The display has two Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports, and you can use one to connect to another 4K display.

Perhaps I am missing something but from that you could have two LG UltraFine 4K Displays - one off each of the Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C)s and daisy chain another LG UltraFine 4K Display off of that for a total offer monitors (use the HDMI for a fifth) and have two Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) left over (one on each monitor) for other devices.

Now there is also this:

LG UltraFine 5K Display: A single Thunderbolt 3 cable (included) charges your MacBook Pro with Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) ports. And three downstream USB-C ports (5 Gbps) offer additional connectivity and power to compatible devices and accessories.

I wonder if the Apple rep was thinking about the LG UltraFine 5K Display because per Apple's own website he was clearly talking nonsense if you were asking about a LG UltraFine 4K Display.

At least with the Intel architecture this is determined by the number of DP pipes that are fed to the TB controller. The LG 4K is able to pass through a 2nd DP stream to one of its USB-C ports. Even the updated LG 5K doesn't have this feature as far as I know since it uses 2 DP streams to get 5K.

 

[MarkC426]

Rosetta 2? That means all my software is doomed.

Not necessarily, when I moved from PPC to Intel, my apps where Universal binaries or running through Rosetta. But anything I used migrated to intel.
Unless your using software from the Stone Age, the developer should convert it.

 

[SteelBlueTJ]

Will the new Mac Mini support the LG 43UN700-B 43" Monitor and a 27" Dell in Portrait?

 

[Micky Do]

Will the new Mac Mini support the LG 43UN700-B 43" Monitor and a 27" Dell in Portrait?

I'd say so,

 

[Partron22]

Not necessarily...

Been running Macs since 84'. There's always a few tools you've found useful over the years which get lost in these major transitions. Even the 16 to 32 bit change in the early 90's killed some nice stuff. Sometimes you can find a replacement. Sometimes you can write a workaround. Sometimes the functionality disappears forever. I wonder if AppleScript will make it through this change?

 

[Nütztjanix]

Why wouldn't it? The OS doesn't change (aside from aesthetics and a few features) - the ISA does.

 

[Jorbanead]

But what will it cost? The RAM is now soldered and going from 8Gb to 16Gb now costs $200. 😳 That‘s $200 for 8Gb RAM over base config. So where is this going? 2 less Thunderbolt ports, non-upgradeable RAM and in-house processors that cost as much as Intel chips. No Boot Camp/Parallels/VMs etc and loads of iOS apps...oh, and no eGPU support (or so it currently seems).

Apple cut the price of the mini by $100 so the cost of the i7 replacement will likely be around the same (or less) than what the current top-spec is.

Everyone keeps stating that the costs of their own chips is cheaper compared to Intel, but what many fail to address is that while the physical chip may be much cheaper, Apple still had/has to spend millions of R&D money to design these chips. Surely over time it will get cheaper for Apple, but they have just spent the last 3-4 years preparing for this transition.

They spent a lot of money on this transition, so it’s to no surprise to those who understand the logistics of this that Apple was never going to reduce costs. Actually the fact that Apple did reduce costs was a bit surprising.

We already knew boot camp was going away (at least for now) and that ARM was going to limit VM’s and Parallels to an extent. That’s just the byproduct of doing a transition like this. But I’d argue if you really need those features then don’t upgrade right now. This is a transition, and many of those needs will get worked out over time. Nobody is forcing you to upgrade and apple will support Intel machines for a long time.

I’ll say it again - most people here complaining: this mini is not for you. There will be a product in the future that caters more to your needs. This is just the beginning and more will come in time.

 

[Osamede]

There's nothing consumer friendly here, pricing or otherwise. Soldered, non-upgradeable RAM and storage, 4 "high-efficiency" cores which are pointless on a machine that doesn't run on battery and a staggering $200 for a $30 8Gb memory upgrade. Oh, and they've removed two Thunderbolt ports, eGPU support and faster Ethernet options. Really consumer friendly.

Apple has much greed to be critisized for, and you've rightly pointed out some of the reasons.

That said, ut one of the main selling points of the Mini for non-heavy duty users - regular consumer- is that it's silent or near silent, so the" high efficiency" is not pointless- it's part of the product position actually.

 

[Osamede]

Apple cut the price of the mini by $100 so the cost of the i7 replacement will likely be around the same (or less) than what the current top-spec is.

Everyone keeps stating that the costs of their own chips is cheaper compared to Intel, but what many fail to address is that while the physical chip may be much cheaper, Apple still had/has to spend millions of R&D money to design these chips. Surely over time it will get cheaper for Apple, but they have just spent the last 3-4 years preparing for this transition.

They spent a lot of money on this transition, so it’s to no surprise to those who understand the logistics of this that Apple was never going to reduce costs. Actually the fact that Apple did reduce costs was a bit surprising.

We already knew boot camp was going away (at least for now) and that ARM was going to limit VM’s and Parallels to an extent. That’s just the byproduct of doing a transition like this. But I’d argue if you really need those features then don’t upgrade right now. This is a transition, and many of those needs will get worked out over time. Nobody is forcing you to upgrade and apple will support Intel machines for a long time.

I’ll say it again - most people here complaining: this mini is not for you. There will be a product in the future that caters more to your needs. This is just the beginning and more will come in time.

Look they are the largest single buyer of these things - and that's why they invested that money. Because they
- reduce cost by custom development to their own strategic roadmap and schedule
- reduce cost by being their own supplier and having a couple less external transactions (and therefore margins) involved

Yeah it's cheaper for them. And they invested in doing it so that they can make it more expensive for you.

The Mac Mini was developed to send the NUC concept UPmarket, not downmarket. And that's what Apple did from day 1 and is still doing, and will always be doing.

 

[Jorbanead]

Look they are the largest single buyer of these things - and that's why they invested that money. Because they
- reduce cost by custom development to their own strategic roadmap and schedule
- reduce cost by being their own supplier and having a couple less external transactions (and therefore margins) involved

Yeah it's cheaper for them. And they invested in doing it so that they can make it more expensive for you.

I don’t think that’s true currently. I think they are still recouping the costs of R&D right now. In 2 years then yes I agree - it’ll be cheaper for them to do, but right now they have 4 years of R&D that they need to cover first before they think about reducing costs.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Why would they reduce costs? I’m sure they would rather sell 100 machines making 50% margin than 125 machines making 25% margin. They will have people working this out. The Apple stock is that high for a reason.

 

[toke lahti]

More likely that most usb C monitors offer additional ports. But could be the demographic of most users. If you use a BT keyboard and mouse, what else do you need? I use all mine, but then I could work around if needed. I already use a multi adapter in one of my USB C ports.

Right, you won't need a tb port to eGPU with this mini...
My 4 tb ports are now
#1 5k2k screen
#2 eGPU
#3 usb3.1g2 hub
#4 tb2->wf or usb-hub or s2nd cable to 5k2k screen to reset loudspeaker coma problem.

IF the new ports would be tb4, then 2 is okay. You could add ports with a tb hub that we have waited for 3 generations of tb. But no. M1-mini is for casual user or for the devs to convert their work to M-chips.
I'd guess that many of us want to wait for more ports with any M-mac, what's the point of 13"mbp now? 10% of more battery life, why they even bothered?

 

[toke lahti]

But what will it cost? The RAM is now soldered and going from 8Gb to 16Gb now costs $200. 😳 That‘s $200 for 8Gb RAM over base config. So where is this going? 2 less Thunderbolt ports, non-upgradeable RAM and in-house processors that cost as much as Intel chips. No Boot Camp/Parallels/VMs etc and loads of iOS apps...oh, and no eGPU support (or so it currently seems).

To me, M-mini looks like i3 replacement.
With all soldered components and ever increasing price difference of them compared to comptetitors, will expel once again one generation of potential mac users.

If there will be "a mini pro" within 6 months for creative pros and tinkerers, things might change. If it has interchangeable components. I guess 3rd party offerings make current MP much more attractive. Those who are willing to pay a premium for all-apple-all-support can do that and those, who need to save few thousand bucks and take some responsibility of hardware support to themselves, can do that.
Apple, give me that f*cking "one time apple tax" for the chassis and let me choose the internals!

Price for soldered components is getting really ugly. It's also a complete throwawayism. I should show sledgehammer to my mini2018 with 256GB int.ssd and buy a new one, if I ask Apple about it.

$200 for 8GB of ram?
3rd party price $25.

$200 for 256GB of ssd?
3rd party price for pcie $40.

$800 for 2TB of ssd?
3rd party price for pcie $200.

What if Apple doubles their taxes next year?
This could go on forever...

For the choose-your-own-display-mac things might be:
2021 adding 2 more tb ports and doublt the ram.
2022 upgrading to tb4.
2023 getting back eGPU.
Or that might be 2026. Or never.

Since hackintosh has evolved to be much easier to maintain, I'll guess I'm outta here...
I'm both sad and angry for Apple...

 

[Osamede]

I don’t think that’s true currently. I think they are still recouping the costs of R&D right now. In 2 years then yes I agree - it’ll be cheaper for them to do, but right now they have 4 years of R&D that they need to cover first before they think about reducing costs.

I don’t think you understand how it works.

They have made this investment on a business case that include full expected lifetime benefits of the investment.

Each year in that expected lifespan they write off a fixed amount of the investment. In the meantime the realise lower costs of supply chain for this component.

The lower cost to them is every year from an accounting point of view.

The lower price to you will never happen. It’s not in their business case. Their business case probably indicates that by taking this in house they can get it cheaper for them while pricing it higher to you by virtue of it bring a proprietary part that no one else can offfer you.