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0098386

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oooh hell yea. its a beautiful thing when a TV show build up this kind of hype, like Rose wearing the red hood, and being called Rose Tyler (Rose= Red, Tyler=Tyr -Norse mythology. got hand bitten off by the 'wolf', or burning hand by touching a Dalek), and the echoes and whispers of BadWolf throughout the past 10 or so episodes. its truely amazing, so simple and has the fans grabbed by the goolies.

one thing ive discovered is that the song on the website http://badwolf.org.uk is of course the 'Whos afraid of the big bad wolf' nursery rhyme, but! if you reverse the music you can almost hear a woman shouting "i cant breathe, please help me". im just trying to find out what else she says, in a lower quality recording i took you can almost hear "i cant be without you, dont leave me", but in the high quality one theres nothing.

hmmm!
 

~Shard~

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raggedjimmi said:
oooh hell yea. its a beautiful thing when a TV show build up this kind of hype, like Rose wearing the red hood, and being called Rose Tyler (Rose= Red, Tyler=Tyr -Norse mythology. got hand bitten off by the 'wolf', or burning hand by touching a Dalek), and the echoes and whispers of BadWolf throughout the past 10 or so episodes. its truely amazing, so simple and has the fans grabbed by the goolies.

one thing ive discovered is that the song on the website http://badwolf.org.uk is of course the 'Whos afraid of the big bad wolf' nursery rhyme, but! if you reverse the music you can almost hear a woman shouting "i cant breathe, please help me". im just trying to find out what else she says, in a lower quality recording i took you can almost hear "i cant be without you, dont leave me", but in the high quality one theres nothing.

hmmm!

I didn't catch the whole Rose Tyr thing, and wasn't aware of the Norse mythology reference - that's pretty cool, actually. As for the song, I haven't played around with it, but always just assumed it was a creepy version of the nursery rhyme and nothing more. If there is something hidden in it, then that's even cooler, but perhaps in this case we might be trying too hard to find something that isn't there. ;) But if you have had any luck deciphering it, keep me posted, this whole Bad Wolf thing fascinates me. :cool:
 

~Shard~

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Jaffa Cake said:
Well, we've now got less than a week to go before the mystery is finally (hopefully) solved. Now that all the clues are out, is anyone brave enough to nail their colours to the mast and share their final, definitive theory?

These damn intelligent writers have left me at a loss, quite honestly. I have a million ideas running through my head! Okay, let me at least start to summarize, since you asked... ;)

On the one hand, the idea of the Doctor not being who he said he is is intriguing, but I think if they pursued something along these lines a lot of the loyal fans might feel rejected.

The psychic girl in "Unquiet Dead" implies that Rose has seen the Big Bad Wolf, yet I don't believe the girl freaked out when she saw the Doctor, which means it's probably not him.

Is it the TARDIS? It actually had "Bad Wolf" spray-painted on it. (But how did that kid know to do that?...) Did it cause some cataclysmic disaster, possibly having something to do with the Time War? In "Empty Child", the Doctor is called a "U-Boat Captain", and U-Boats travelled in Wolf Packs. The Doctor travels in the TARDIS...

Are the Daleks the Bad Wolf, or more specifically, is Davross the Bad Wolf, and he returns? (I think this is unlikely as I'm pretty sure Davross was taken care of back in the day...)

The "official" BadWolf website linked to earlier in this thread adds more complexity to the mix though as well. The Norse mythology references are intriguing, (Rose Tyr and all) however there is also the story of how the Bad Wolf is, in essence, a good thing - perhaps it is the Doctor then...

What I still don't fully understand though is that one rumor says we'll see the Daleks, and lots of them in the "Bad Wolf" episode. Yet I have also heard how the "Bad Wold" episode takes place on the Big Brother reality TV show with Davina, Anne from Weakest Link, yadda yadda. On the surface this seems quite corny and cheesy to me, and worries me, yet supposedly this is "the" episode where everything will be made clear.

As for my conclusion? I'm still working on it. ;)

And lastly, it's going to be hard for me to visit this thread, check the BadWolf website etc. after next Friday. Here in Canada, the episodes air on Tuesdays, and we're a week behind. Now, I've been downloading the episodes so I'm ahead (just grabbing "Boom Town" right now, which won't be aired here for another week and a half), but still, there'll be a couple days between the Friday night airing and when the episode will be available for downloading off the Web, so I'll have to be careful! :cool:
 

0098386

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im starting to think its a combination of things; Adam, his feelings toward the Doctor, and that thing in his head. after all he has a lot of knowledge with that 'implant' in his forehead right? and with knowledge comes power. AND we all know his feelings towards the Doctor for leaving him behind.

whatever the result i firmly believe the Norse route. the hand, the names, the settings. its all linked together!

one day the wolf will break free on the day of Ragnarok and will bring the end of the world. we know theres a dalek invasion, end of the world? of course in the mythology the wolf and its fighter both die (seeing that Eccleston is leaving it wouldnt surprise me) but so does the world, leaving only 2 beings left to carry on the human race. i doubt that will happen though.

one good theory is that Jack is the Master. but i dont think its going to be the Tardis although there are a lot of theories about it. applying the 'werewolf' theory to that is easy; get cursed (leaving Galifrey?) , everythings peachy until one night where you go mental and kill stuff.

join me in a mass 'hmmmm'
 

~Shard~

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raggedjimmi said:
Adam, his feelings toward the Doctor, and that thing in his head. after all he has a lot of knowledge with that 'implant' in his forehead right? and with knowledge comes power. AND we all know his feelings towards the Doctor for leaving him behind.

I wondered about that myself. In "Father's Day" Rose basically single-handedly initiates the destruction of the world by saving her father's life, and the Doctor reams her out big time for altering the past, etc. Yet the Doctor is fine with returning Adam home, with all the knowledge that he's acquired, and that thing in his head - why wouldn't that cause serious ramifications as well? Never understood that...

raggedjimmi said:
one good theory is that Jack is the Master.

I hadn't heard this one yet, actually. What basis is there for this theory? Jack didn't seem evil enough to be the Master, and he seemed quite content to die on his spaceship before the Doctor saved him. He also stopped the bomb from wiping the Doctor out when he didn't have to (if indeed he was the Master and would've wanted the Doctor out of the way.)
 

Jaffa Cake

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Aug 1, 2004
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Well, here's my pet theory.

As already mentioned, in The Unquiet Dead Gwyneth reads Rose's mind and says 'The things you have seen.... the darkness... the Big Bad Wolf', which indicates (to me at least), Bad Wolf is linked to something Rose has already encountered on her travels. Maybe one of the aliens from episode 2 – but more likely either the Doctor or the Tardis.

I reckon Bad Wolf isn't actually a person or tangible object – I think it's a dark secret the Doctor's hiding. Most likely it's related to something terrible he did during the Time War – a burden that he wants to confide in others but feels too guilty about. It's been stated on several occasions that the Tardis has a telepathic field that "gets in your head" – and that link will naturally be strongest to its owner. It's picking up on the Doctor's subconcious need to share his guilty secret and is telepathically influencing those around it (such as the graffiti-writing boy) to try to bring it out into the open, hence all the Bad Wolf references that are manifesting around the Doctor.

So, that's my half-baked theory – I look foward to being proved totally and utterly wrong this coming Saturday. :D
 

0098386

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~Shard~ said:
I hadn't heard this one yet, actually. What basis is there for this theory? Jack didn't seem evil enough to be the Master, and he seemed quite content to die on his spaceship before the Doctor saved him. He also stopped the bomb from wiping the Doctor out when he didn't have to (if indeed he was the Master and would've wanted the Doctor out of the way.)

he's either the master or someone evil, people are picking up on his 2 year gap in his memory. something happened then.
 

~Shard~

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Jaffa Cake said:
Well, here's my pet theory.

<snip>


Actually I like that part about the TARDIS affecting people's minds, thus creating Bad Wolf references all over the place due to the Doctor's thoughts/feelings.

raggedjimmi said:
he's either the master or someone evil, people are picking up on his 2 year gap in his memory. something happened then.

He just seems to nice to be the Master, but I suppose anything is possible. But yes, I totally, agree, the 2 year gap must mean something, or they wouldn't have included it.
 

~Shard~

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The episode synopsis for both "Bad Wolf" and "Parting of the Ways" are now posted on TV Tome so read if you like! I am really looking forward to these episodes, I sure hope they meet expectations and the whole Bad Wolf thing isn't a letdown after such a big, seemingly ingenious/complex build-up by the writers.

As I said before, I am very impressed with the new series. Expectations were high, and in my mind, they've definitely delivered. The show succeeds in taking me back to my younger days when I used to watch Who all the time! :cool:
 

0098386

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ooh im not looking there. i havnt even been to the BBC website yet. want to keep everything secret, im just working on the old episodes and the badwolf websites to try and figure out whats going to happen :)

only a couple of days now :D
 

~Shard~

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raggedjimmi said:
ooh im not looking there. i havnt even been to the BBC website yet. want to keep everything secret, im just working on the old episodes and the badwolf websites to try and figure out whats going to happen :)

only a couple of days now :D

As I said above, I'm a week and a bit behind the UK, being here in Canada, so Boom Town (episode 11) isn't even going to air here until next Tuesday. However I've been downloading the episodes a day or so after they air over there, so I've been managing to keep pace with you guys pretty well. Here's hoping that by Sunday I have my Bad Wolf to watch! :cool:
 

0098386

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Jaffa Cake said:
Nice to see Red Dwarf's Norman Lovett back on the telly – and what an interesting role for him... (I won't mention which for those who don't want to be spoilt ;)).


no no dont worry at all. the name 'Lovett' has something to do with wolves. its all part of the hype/conspiracy/clues. i seriously doubt he's going to be in the next 2 episodes, but he may very well be?!

me and my girlfriend developed another theory whilst walking the dog. kinda matrix-y. but maybe the Doctor is the Doctor but with bits of the Master in him, as in seeing that there is just one good timelord then maybe he's got a bit of bad in him? no light without dark, a smith to the Doctors Neo? that Tennent or the next doctor will appear and force mr. Eccleston to the Masters position?

another thing is the werewolf theory.
Werewolves transform from normal happy people into these beasts when there is a full moon.
the Doctor turns into a murderous psycopath when confronted with a Dalek (in the Dalek ep, cast your mind back to him going crazy about to blow the thing up before Rose stops him).

both have thier personality changing vices. hmmm?
 

~Shard~

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raggedjimmi said:
no no dont worry at all. the name 'Lovett' has something to do with wolves. its all part of the hype/conspiracy/clues. i seriously doubt he's going to be in the next 2 episodes, but he may very well be?!

me and my girlfriend developed another theory whilst walking the dog. kinda matrix-y. but maybe the Doctor is the Doctor but with bits of the Master in him, as in seeing that there is just one good timelord then maybe he's got a bit of bad in him? no light without dark, a smith to the Doctors Neo? that Tennent or the next doctor will appear and force mr. Eccleston to the Masters position?

another thing is the werewolf theory.
Werewolves transform from normal happy people into these beasts when there is a full moon.
the Doctor turns into a murderous psycopath when confronted with a Dalek (in the Dalek ep, cast your mind back to him going crazy about to blow the thing up before Rose stops him).

both have thier personality changing vices. hmmm?

Interesting theories, thanks for sharing! Only a short while now until all is revealed!

And regardless of how all this turns out, I really hope Tennent does the role justice. If he is perceived as not as good as CE, it could deal a little bit of a blow to the series form the fans, which would be very unfortunate. I quite liked CE, so I'm hoping Tennent carries on and is even better. And hopefully he'll stick around for more than 1 season. ;)
 

~Shard~

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raggedjimmi said:
it all happens tonight :D gonna be one good evening :)

And I'll be hitting the torrents soon to try an grab myself a copy so I don't have to wait a week and a half! Then I can discuss things here in a more timely manner as well.... :)
 

0098386

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maybe its just me but im still lost with this. the episode didnt explain anything other than what has been said before. its still a puzzle, if anything that episode just made it more confusing!

but WOW. what an effin good episode :O next weeks is going to be too amazing (i NEVER watch the trailers XD)
 

hob

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Commenting on the series as a whole - it seems that somewhere in the scriptwriting team is a genius of suspense, because most of the episodes have contained excellent examples of this. But, I think some of the writing is quite lazy... Only establishing a handful of locations and characters and continually revisiting them... Station 5 as an example - and the revisiting of the sliveen character as another...
 

~Shard~

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hob said:
Commenting on the series as a whole - it seems that somewhere in the scriptwriting team is a genius of suspense, because most of the episodes have contained excellent examples of this. But, I think some of the writing is quite lazy... Only establishing a handful of locations and characters and continually revisiting them... Station 5 as an example - and the revisiting of the sliveen character as another...

This is similar to an earlier comment of mine - I would like to see more "non-Earth" episodes in the next season. I feel like this season focused too much on Earth (i.e. every episode had dealt with it!) and that is something I really enjoyed about the old Doctor Who - traveling to exotic, far off places. It was fun with Pertwee and Baker, visiting the Brigadier, and all the UNIT episodes, don't get me wrong, but even those Doctors took a break from Earth for a while. ;)

Also, although I thought stories such as "Fathers Day" were really well written and acted, I still have found a bit too much of Rose's family for my liking. And then, as you say, the fact that they are brought into things in one form or another every other episode it seems.

Regardless, I have really enjoyed the new series - honestly, it has exceeded my expectations. :cool:
 
Well, by the time I write this, those of you in England have probably already seen "Parting of the Ways", whereas I haven't yet. Not that I'm saying I've seen the other episodes, living in America as I do, of course -- how could I? ;-) -- but I'll add to the discussion here nonetheless...

First, the Doctor Who "Matrix" episode referred to on here quite a while back was called "The Deadly Assassin". In it, the Doctor has to enter the Matrix in order to find out who is in league with the Master and what their plan is. As far as the sequences "in the Matrix" are concerned, they are equivalent to events within the Matrix in "The Matrix" though of course their special-effects budget was a tiny fraction of what was spent by the Wachowski (sp?) brothers.

As a side note, if anyone here wants me to talk about The Deadly Assassin in more detail, just ask.

I've skipped through a number of the posts on here, so I don't know if anyone has declared a "spoilers" warning yet for those who haven't seen any or much of this series, so I'm going to do that now before going on...






***** SPOILER WARNING *****






Alright, here's what we know thus far. Aparantly, the Daleks somehow managed to wage a war with the Time Lords of Gallifrey, and it would appear it was essentially fought to some kind of stalemate. From my perspective as a long-time Whovian, this completely conflicts with established canon in that:

  1. The Time Lords are a considerably older race than the Kaleds, who gave rise through Davros to the Daleks.
  2. The Time Lords are more advanced, have better resources, and have not been forced to wage war without having a home planet to fight from for a long, long time.
  3. The Daleks' time travel technology was NEVER all that great. It has ALWAYS been rudimentary.
  4. The Doctor destroyed Skaro's sun at a point before the Daleks had gone on to become the warring race they turned into during the 7th Doctor episode "Rememberance of the Daleks". They were a dead race!!!

But, obviously, canon was ignored by TPTB, so here's my take...

This war was either so intense or so poorly managed by the Time Lords that somehow they lost. Obviously they must have taken down tremendous numbers of the enemy, and presumably The Doctor was a part of that set of events. Based on his actions thus far, his gloomy countenance, his [lack of] explanations about the war and the implied possibilities from what he has said, I'd suspect that his whole "goody two-shoes" attitude of the preceeding 8 incarnations got stripped away, and he allowed the darker side of his nature to (finally!) come forth.

I'll bet he was involved in some heavy black-ops sh*t, and wouldn't be surpised if he was involved in multiple genocide activities in the effort to preserve his people. After all, which of us wouldn't do the same thing to collectively protect every human on the Earth? Of course, there's also the added motivation that Gallifrey possesses some seriously freakin' advanced tech which truly shouldn't be allowed to fall into anyone else's hands at any cost. Like time-travel technology especially, weapons systems, stellar manipulation, the ability to move entire constellations through space, etc. The list just goes on and on.

In theory, as a Time Lord, it should be incumbent upon the Doctor to protect ALL of this stuff at any cost, and I'll bet it's the "at any cost" part that's giving him some trouble. He wouldn't be the first combatant to have psychological trama and difficulties following a war.

For the curious here, here is a picture of Davros from the episode "Genesis Of The Daleks":

davros026zp.png
 

Jaffa Cake

macrumors Core
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The City of Culture, Englandshire
MikeTheC said:
Some interesting points there. As I've stated in earlier posts I certainly think that there's a lot the Doctor's hiding – maybe we'll find a bit more out in tonight's episode ("Parting of the Ways" isn't actually aired in the UK until this evening).

I certainly agree that the Timelords are more technologically advanced than the Daleks – but then history is littered with nations and armies that have been defeated by opponents with far fewer resources. Plus, we don't know exactly what state the Daleks were in when they waged the war – their technology could have made some pretty serious advances, or their empire could have conquered a species with enough advanced tech to enable them to wage war on an equal footing. Maybe they even had some help from a rogue Timelord or two – certain members of that race haven't shown many qualms in the past at betraying their people for their own gain...

And don't forget too that the Timelords have shown themselves to be quite an arrogant culture in the past – they may well have viewed the Dalek menace as no threat to them until it was too late.

Whatever the situation though, I'm very much looking forward to tonight's episode. :)
 

MacSA

macrumors 68000
Jun 4, 2003
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~Shard~ said:
And I'll be hitting the torrents soon to try an grab myself a copy so I don't have to wait a week and a half! Then I can discuss things here in a more timely manner as well.... :)

So where do people find these torrent files then?.....ive never figured this stuffout, I guess it doesn't really matter since i'm on dialup anyway lol.
 

hob

macrumors 68010
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MacSA said:
So where do people find these torrent files then?.....ive never figured this stuffout, I guess it doesn't really matter since i'm on dialup anyway lol.
PM sent. We don't talk about bi-t-torrent on these holy pages...

And yeah, I'd say dial-up is a significant problem... :(

But ooooo I might have to run home tonight to actually watch it on tv! So far I've missed them all but the first one, and last week when I thought it started at 7.30 but it was at 7!
 
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