The Official Doctor Who

[MikeTheC]

*** SPOILER ALERT ***

Just watched "Parting of the Ways" again - damn that was an amazing episode.

Yes, absolutely. I loved the epic ending they used, and some of the same thoughts you had occurred to me as well.

First, it was my understanding that, at that last stand behind the barracade they were protected by a force field. Did I simply mis-understand?

As far as opening the TARDIS, I have issues with it as well, but most of them go towards design aesthetics and safety. I can't believe that just some instrument control panels are all that shield the interior of the TARDIS from the hellish effects of the space-time vortex. It's a little like, in the Star Trek movies, putting a control panel above the dilithium reaction tubes in that chamber and assuming the panels will protect against plasma and radiation spillage. But that's a discussion for a different place and different time.

Now, regarding Rose looking into the heart of the TARDIS, shouldn't it have "burned her out" like a cheap lightbulb almost immediately on contact? And, failing that, she had the energy matrix and connection going a LOT longer than the Doctor did. Remember, she was exposed to it prior to take-off from London c. 2005-2006, continued to be exposed while in-flight, at landing, and all the while she was healing people and nuking Daleks.

It should have fried her like an egg.

Regarding "the kiss", it was more to my mind like he was "sucking the poison out" than he was actually "kissing" her. And this is hardly the first time in Sci-Fi or fantasy where such a technique gets used.

And no, PaulDoc was the first instance of a Doctor kissing anybody (AFAIK).

Well, I really didn't care for the Doctor being made to seem so "alien" in this show. If ChrisDoc was the first incarnation of the Doctor and he hadn't yet been exposed to off-worlders (such as humans), I could understand it, but he's been "out amongst the people" for over 900 of his own linear years. And all the other doctors, BillDoc included, were far more in touch with human reactions, customs, behaviorial responses, etc., than ChrisDoc.

However, putting that aside for a moment, I think Chris did a wonderful job within the confines of how his character was written, and he certainly did bring an intensity to it that's been lacking for far too many years.

 

[~Shard~]

I reckon that's the one I was thinking of! I Googled it up... apparently in The Brain of Morbius they showed the Doctor's previous regenerations during his mental battle with the titular baddie – and as well as Pertwee, Troughton and Hartnell they showed a number of other faces that were (according to the script but not stated on screen) eight even earlier regenerations. The twelve regeneration rule then cropped up in a later episode and the extra faces (actually members of the production team in cameos) were explained away either as Morbius' previous regenerations, or false images conjured up by the Doctor to fool his opponent.

Cool, thanks for all the info! You guys know your Who... Now I'll have to find a copy of "Morbius" to watch this again.

 

[~Shard~]

* MORE SPOILERS *

First, it was my understanding that, at that last stand behind the barracade they were protected by a force field. Did I simply mis-understand?

Hmm, now that you mention this, I think that was indicated at one point. But also remember that nothing else seemed to be working for the defenders - some sort of lasers were suposed to cut up the Daleks, which the Daleks took offline, and shooting the eye stalks didn't seem to work very well either. Perhaps the force field simply was disabled too.

As far as opening the TARDIS, I have issues with it as well, but most of them go towards design aesthetics and safety. I can't believe that just some instrument control panels are all that shield the interior of the TARDIS from the hellish effects of the space-time vortex. It's a little like, in the Star Trek movies, putting a control panel above the dilithium reaction tubes in that chamber and assuming the panels will protect against plasma and radiation spillage. But that's a discussion for a different place and different time.

Good point, you think the thing would be a bit "safer" than that. And if this is indeed the time vortex, then what exactly happened to that last Slitheen when she looked into it? Should that not have killed her as well?

Now, regarding Rose looking into the heart of the TARDIS, shouldn't it have "burned her out" like a cheap lightbulb almost immediately on contact? And, failing that, she had the energy matrix and connection going a LOT longer than the Doctor did. Remember, she was exposed to it prior to take-off from London c. 2005-2006, continued to be exposed while in-flight, at landing, and all the while she was healing people and nuking Daleks.

Yep, as I said, those were my thoughts too. I think she should have been burned out by it pretty quickly but maybe there's more to it (or her) than we know...

Regarding "the kiss", it was more to my mind like he was "sucking the poison out" than he was actually "kissing" her. And this is hardly the first time in Sci-Fi or fantasy where such a technique gets used.

Fair enough, and I guess this is why it didn't bother me as much as I would have thought it would. I have no real issues with this...

And no, PaulDoc was the first instance of a Doctor kissing anybody (AFAIK).

Thanks for the confirmation, I thought so...

Well, I really didn't care for the Doctor being made to seem so "alien" in this show. If ChrisDoc was the first incarnation of the Doctor and he hadn't yet been exposed to off-worlders (such as humans), I could understand it, but he's been "out amongst the people" for over 900 of his own linear years. And all the other doctors, BillDoc included, were far more in touch with human reactions, customs, behaviorial responses, etc., than ChrisDoc.

I never thought of it that way, but you make a good point. Rergardless, as you said afterwards, Chris still did a wonderful job, which I totally agree with.

Oh, and I really felt for Lynda (with a "y") and her fate - that was rough, as was the slaughter of Floor 0 to a lesser extent.

So lastly, perhaps I just have to watch the episode again, but what exactly is the deal with "Bad Wolf"? Why those words? And Rose put those messages there for herself as a message.... why?... and how did that help? And was it her future actions after looking into the time vortex which populated "Bad Wolf" throughout time, into their past? Never quite fully got this one, any insight would be appreciated.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

* MORE SPOILERS *

...what exactly is the deal with "Bad Wolf"? Why those words? And Rose put those messages there for herself as a message.... why?

Yep, I've been puzzling over this one too. I can understand her putting a message back through time for herself, but why these words? It may be a chicken and the egg situation – she only chose 'Bad Wolf' because she'd already seen the phrase, if you know what I mean. I think though that it may have been an indication to herself that it was still possible to reach across time to the Bad Wolf Corporation's Game Station. Maybe we'll get a full explanation in the future – who knows, it may even tie in with the headscratcher we have to look forward to in the next series.

...it was my understanding that, at that last stand behind the barracade they were protected by a force field. Did I simply mis-understand?

I must be honest and say I can't remember them mentioning it – but my guess is either the Daleks disabled it or it was a lie to encourage the defenders not to run when faced with the Daleks, buying the Doctor more precious time. The Doctor was aware that the Delta Wave would fry the human race but he didn't mention it – could the forcefield have been a similar trick to encourage the defenders to stick around?

I really didn't care for the Doctor being made to seem so "alien" in this show... he's been "out amongst the people" for over 900 of his own linear years.

True – now you mention it he did seem a little more detached from his humanity than in previous regenerations. Still, a long time could have passed between the TV Movie and the new series – certainly we had time for the destruction of Gallifrey, which itself could go some way to explain the Doctor's detached nature. And he may simply have not been in contact with any humans for a long time – maybe he was a little rusty?

Now, regarding Rose looking into the heart of the TARDIS, shouldn't it have "burned her out" like a cheap lightbulb almost immediately on contact?

I wondered about this too – I suppose if we're to be charitable we could accept the explanation that the Doctor has a completely different biology from Rose – Timelords are a hardy species in many ways but they may well be vulnerable to things Humans can endure to a point. Certainly, they're more attuned to time and the state of the universe (the Doctor's speech in the first episode about feeling the world spinning, for example) so maybe the effects of the Heart of the Tardis are far more telling on him.

Either that, or he's a very, very good kisser.

 

[MikeTheC]

Either that, or he's a very, very good kisser.

Actually, maybe it's Rose who's a very good kisser. In fact, one might say she has one killer kiss.

to assailant in dark alley way:

ROSE: If you don't back off, I'll... kiss you!!!

ASSAILANT: Noooooooooooo!!!!!!

 

[~Shard~]

* MORE SPOILERS *
Yep, I've been puzzling over this one too. I can understand her putting a message back through time for herself, but why these words? It may be a chicken and the egg situation – she only chose 'Bad Wolf' because she'd already seen the phrase, if you know what I mean. I think though that it may have been an indication to herself that it was still possible to reach across time to the Bad Wolf Corporation's Game Station. Maybe we'll get a full explanation in the future – who knows, it may even tie in with the headscratcher we have to look forward to in the next series.

Anyone else have any ideas on this to help us out? Who knows, maybe it will tie into the next "Bad Wolf" in Season 2/28. Davies mentioned the "word" or "phrase" has already been used, and will be used again in the Xmas Special. It definitely adds another element to the storyline if nothing else!

So because of her actions, is Rose now a "super companion"? I realize she doesn't have the powers of the time vortex anymore, but still, what she accomplished was nothing short of a miracle - piloting the TARDIS back, wiping out the entire Dalek fleet, bringing Jack back to life, saving the Doctor.... How many other companions have experience like this on their resume?

 

[Mechcozmo]

This thread is the first hit for "27x01" on Google. I selected "27x01", right-clicked, and said "Search for with Google" (PPPLLEEAAAZZEEE make that show up in a new tab soon Apple!) and this thread showed up.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Davies mentioned the "word" or "phrase" has already been used, and will be used again in the Xmas Special.

And speaking of the Christmas special – BBC Two showed a teaser trailer for it last night... in bloody June! No new footage – just clips of key moments from the last series, with a tagline along the lines of 'the countdown to the invasion has begun.

It's bloody June!

 

[0098386]

Actually, maybe it's Rose who's a very good kisser. In fact, one might say she has one killer kiss.

i still havnt forgiven her for that "because we want too" song

 

[Lacero]

The acting in Doctor Who is sooooo much better than Star Wars PT. It's so ironic that a small budget series is so much more engrossing to watch than a huge multi-million Hollywood production.

I was totally immersed in "Parting of the Ways" that I even forgot where I was sitting.

 

[~Shard~]

This thread is the first hit for "27x01" on Google. I selected "27x01", right-clicked, and said "Search for with Google" (PPPLLEEAAAZZEEE make that show up in a new tab soon Apple!) and this thread showed up.

Very cool! Glad to see our discussion here is so popular. Fitting though, as we have an excellent panel of Whovians present.

 

[~Shard~]

And speaking of the Christmas special – BBC Two showed a teaser trailer for it last night... in bloody June! No new footage – just clips of key moments from the last series, with a tagline along the lines of 'the countdown to the invasion has begun.

It's bloody June!

You're kidding?! Yikes, Xmas is 6 months away, that's the last thing on my mind right now - especially with it being +35 Celsius here the past few days!

 

[~Shard~]

The acting in Doctor Who is sooooo much better than Star Wars PT. It's so ironic that a small budget series is so much more engrossing to watch than a huge multi-million Hollywood production.

I was totally immersed in "Parting of the Ways" that I even forgot where I was sitting.

It all comes down to the story, the writing and the acting, as you say - there are really no substitutes for these things, no matter how much money you throw at Special Effects and the like. It's always been a strong point of Doctor Who in the past, and it's a pleasure to see that Davies and company have done the series justice and done things right for this new incarnation.

 

[0098386]

The acting in Doctor Who is sooooo much better than Star Wars PT. It's so ironic that a small budget series is so much more engrossing to watch than a huge multi-million Hollywood production.

I was totally immersed in "Parting of the Ways" that I even forgot where I was sitting.

oh god yes. Eccleston is a down right amazing actor. ive found myself repeating that bit in Dalek when he goes a little mental and shouts "why don't you all die!" a couple of times. and yea in 'bad wolf' i kept having to look away from the TV just to remind myself what room i was in

the last time i was immersed so much in a TV series was that Dracula show on nickelodeon, i was only about 8 and used to remind myself that vampires dont exist!

the way i see it Eccleston played the dark doctor, the guy who drew us in with this mystery and tattered past. i reckon Tennant will see the return of the jolly happy Doctor.

 

[HydroMan]

On the subject of budgets The Independent had this piece in an article -

"BBC1 spent £1m on each 45-minute episode, although the total cost was £1.2m (the rest came from overseas sales). By current television drama standards, that is an enormous figure"

 

[~Shard~]

On the subject of budgets The Independent had this piece in an article -

"BBC1 spent £1m on each 45-minute episode, although the total cost was £1.2m (the rest came from overseas sales). By current television drama standards, that is an enormous figure"

Wow, I wouldn't have expected it to be that high. Nice to see the BBC so dedicated towards the series, and committed to doing a good job and releasing a quality product.

 

[Lacero]

Star Trek:TNG cost about $1 million per episode as well. But for a Doctor Who show running 120 minutes, its $3 million, a far cry from the $100 or so for a blockbuster Hollywood film.

 

[~Shard~]

Star Trek:TNG cost about $1 million per episode as well. But for a Doctor Who show running 120 minutes, its $3 million, a far cry from the $100 or so for a blockbuster Hollywood film.

I guess I didn't realize that TNG cost so much per epsiode either - interesting.

Regardless, it's all been money well spent!

 

[MikeTheC]

This thread is the first hit for "27x01" on Google. I selected "27x01", right-clicked, and said "Search for with Google" (PPPLLEEAAAZZEEE make that show up in a new tab soon Apple!) and this thread showed up.

Looks like a wonderful start to some pwn3d-age of Google! w00t!

Hmm, were there any clues along these lines in "The Trial of a Timelord"? The Doctor meets himself (the Valeyard), mention is made that he is "kind of" the last of the Doctor's regenerations... anything there? Ah well, it's not a big deal, just something fun to think about I guess.

Oh, actually I saw this but didn't reply to it earlier... sorry!

Two things about TOTL. 1. It's the second time in the series we see the Matrix. 2. The Doctor really doesn't have any "prior regen" flashbacks. In fact, I don't think he has any flashbacks as all. What we DO see are "prior" events shown at his trial in the courtroom.

Now, about The Valeyard...

This is The Valeyard, standing on a virtual grassy hill inside The Matrix on Gallifrey.

Regarding The Valeyard, played by Michael Jayston, he IS NOT a future regeneration of The Doctor. He is actually an artifically created amalgamation of the Doctor's dark side, collected by unspecified means from, according to The Master who shows up at the trial -- on the Doctor's side no less! -- "somewhere between his 12th and final regenerations." It could be they "grew" him from trace DNA they had on file from the Doctor when he lived on or visited Gallifrey, but the specifics are never stated.

The purpose of The Valeyard is at least two-fold. The first is to (presumably) help the High Council carry out certain black-ops activities not properly sanctioned or perhaps against the rules and ethics of their government. To this end, the second is to eliminate The Doctor. As a reward, he is to be given The Doctor's remaining regenerations. How this is to be implimented is likewise unstated.

To make it very brief, somehow certain technological (and/or other) information is taken from Gallifrey (it would seem it was collected somehow via The Matrix) and was to be sold on the black market. One or more people on the High Council decide to be, shall we say, somewhat heavy-handed in their response to this, and wind up moving Earth and it's entire constellation to a location several light-years distant after it's discovered that Earth is being used as a transfer point in the deal to acquire these secrets. The Doctor stumbles across this and has to be eliminated.

One can only wonder if it's this sort of corruption that eventually leads to Gallifrey's (and the Time Lords') demise...

 

[~Shard~]

Yes, yes, I'm resurrecting this thread, and for a mostly off-topic reason to boot!

I was thinking that since I just became a 601, I should change my avatar for kicks. I then had the amusing (pathetic?) realization that in a way, I could treat this new member ranking and milestone as a "regeneration", hence a change of my image. Then I figured, where would be the most appropriate thread to post this train of thought in? Yah, I know, I need help....

 

[hob]

Yes, yes, I'm resurrecting this thread, and for a mostly off-topic reason to boot!

I was thinking that since I just became a 601, I should change my avatar for kicks. I then had the amusing (pathetic?) realization that in a way, I could treat this new member ranking and milestone as a "regeneration", hence a change of my image. Then I figured, where would be the most appropriate thread to post this train of thought in? Yah, I know, I need help....

I'm so happy at the way this thread turned into such a popular one

Mainly down to you, Shard...

Anyway - a curious idea! You could "regenerate" each time you change number...!

 

[~Shard~]

I'm so happy at the way this thread turned into such a popular one

Mainly down to you, Shard...

Thanks hob - and thanks to you for starting it in the first place! I have truly enjoyed myself in this thread and it's great to have fellow Whovians present to chat with.

Anyway - a curious idea! You could "regenerate" each time you change number...!

Yes, I thought it was an intriguing (and silly) concept. So now I'll just have to think about what my next avatar should be. I don't change it as often as other people, and I'm sure I'll change it again in a couple month or so regardless, (since my rank won't be changing again for a LONG time), but this will still be fun nonetheless.

 

[Jaffa Cake]

It's a good thing you've got such a high post count, Shard – what with some of the lower rankings only lasting for five posts or so your new 'regeneration' would be over even quicker than the Doctor's last one...

 

[~Shard~]

It's a good thing you've got such a high post count, Shard – what with some of the lower rankings only lasting for five posts or so your new 'regeneration' would be over even quicker than the Doctor's last one...

Yeah, it would have been more fun to "regenerate" at my earlier rankings, every 500 posts or so. And then yes, as you say, for the brief 65832 and 68010 ranks I could have been Paul McGann and Christopher Eccelston! Hmm, and what would be the equivalent of getting Banned? Colin Baker?

But alas, now I am the Tom Baker of MacRumors and will not see another "regeneration" for a long time. But I'm cool with that, as Tom Baker was my favorite Doctor (with Colin Baker coming a close second!)

 

[Jaffa Cake]

Yeah, it would have been more fun to "regenerate" at my earlier rankings, every 500 posts or so.

It may have been more fun, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) isn't '601' the twelfth ranking here at MacRumors? Don't forget, you only get twelve regenerations and then you're a goner...