Well, FIFA have intervened and the Togo squad are apparently on their way to Dortmund for their game...FleurDuMal said:
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The Official World Cup 2006 Thread
- Thread starter Blue Velvet
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Jaffa Cake said:
As they should be! I guess we know where their priorities lie when it comes to money versus the pride that comes with representing your country in such an event...
There are a few things I have been wondering about when it comes to the World Cup, specifically from a spectator's point of view.
First of all, is it essentially impossible to get tickets to the matches? When do they initially go on sale? Is it right after the actual groups and resulting match-ups are announced? Is it one of those things where all tickets sell out in 2 seconds? How on the ball do you have to be to actually get tickets to one of these matches?
Secondly, how much would the average ticket cost for one of these initial group matches? Where do you buy them? Is there a definitive/sole source?
Furthermore, when would the tickets go on sale for the Round of 16 matches, Quarters, Semis, etc.? I'm assuming they don't go on sale until the participating teams are confirmed, otherwise how would the fans know which tickets to buy to watch their teams?
Lastly, how does seating work? For the Premiership games i've attended, the home team gets 75% of the seats (give or take) and the visitors get their own segregated section - pretty cut and dried. What if someone just wants to watch a World Cup game, and isn't necessarily a fan of either team? Do they essentially have to pick a side or risk being lynched? Obviously there are sections for the actual fans of each team, but are there "neutral" sections as well at these matches?
I was always wondering about these types of things, and thought this would as good a place to ask as any.
First of all, is it essentially impossible to get tickets to the matches? When do they initially go on sale? Is it right after the actual groups and resulting match-ups are announced? Is it one of those things where all tickets sell out in 2 seconds?
How on the ball do you have to be to actually get tickets to one of these matches?Secondly, how much would the average ticket cost for one of these initial group matches? Where do you buy them? Is there a definitive/sole source?
Furthermore, when would the tickets go on sale for the Round of 16 matches, Quarters, Semis, etc.? I'm assuming they don't go on sale until the participating teams are confirmed, otherwise how would the fans know which tickets to buy to watch their teams?
Lastly, how does seating work? For the Premiership games i've attended, the home team gets 75% of the seats (give or take) and the visitors get their own segregated section - pretty cut and dried. What if someone just wants to watch a World Cup game, and isn't necessarily a fan of either team? Do they essentially have to pick a side or risk being lynched?
Obviously there are sections for the actual fans of each team, but are there "neutral" sections as well at these matches?I was always wondering about these types of things, and thought this would as good a place to ask as any.
I agree entirely, although it is only fair to point out that each and every player in the tournament (except the Togo squad, it would seem) is being well rewarded for their participation. I'm just going to be interested to see how much effort the players put into their remaining two matches. We'll see if they do have any genuine pride by the quality of their performances.~Shard~ said:As they should be! I guess we know where their priorities lie when it comes to money versus the pride that comes with representing your country in such an event...
See you in South Africa then, ~Shard~? We're planning on attending, if the airports don't shut down.~Shard~ said:I was always wondering about these types of things, and thought this would as good a place to ask as any.
~Shard~ said:
Do a search on the BBC news site for World Cup tickets to find out some of the remarks being made about how it's been a shambles. And here for how they were handed out by FIFA - the first ones went on sale in Feb 2005!
The tickets for the next round all the way to the final are already out there. People try to buy them hoping their team will take that route - and either go to enjoy the spectacle or sell them on - just like the Super Bowl really.
Some tickets go on sale to general public (never enough), some are made available to the football associations countries involved who usually dish them out through the official supporter clubs giving priority to those who went to see qualifying games, players will get some but the majority go to the sponsors of the teams - who use them as corporate freebies. Apparently at one of Holland's games, nearly 1000 seats were empty from sponsors who hadn't handed their tickets back in. Probably wasn't noticed so much since there were another 1000 Dutch fans wandering around in just their underpants apparently.
It's not impossible to get a ticket if you show up in Germany - you'll just have to pay over the odds through scalpers and touts. Up to 10x face value in many cases - and more for the popular games.
~Shard~ said:There are a few things I have been wondering about when it comes to the World Cup, specifically from a spectator's point of view.
First of all, is it essentially impossible to get tickets to the matches? When do they initially go on sale? Is it right after the actual groups and resulting match-ups are announced? Is it one of those things where all tickets sell out in 2 seconds?
Secondly, how much would the average ticket cost for one of these initial group matches? Where do you buy them? Is there a definitive/sole source?
Furthermore, when would the tickets go on sale for the Round of 16 matches, Quarters, Semis, etc.? I'm assuming they don't go on sale until the participating teams are confirmed, otherwise how would the fans know which tickets to buy to watch their teams?
Lastly, how does seating work? For the Premiership games i've attended, the home team gets 75% of the seats (give or take) and the visitors get their own segregated section - pretty cut and dried. What if someone just wants to watch a World Cup game, and isn't necessarily a fan of either team? Do they essentially have to pick a side or risk being lynched?
I was always wondering about these types of things, and thought this would as good a place to ask as any.
Ticketing arrangements for the World Cup are an absolute shambles, in my opinion
. Its rife with corruption (much like FIFA itself).Realistically, if you want a ticket, you have two options:
1) Have friends in high places as a lot (FAR, FAR, FAR TOO MANY!) tickets are allocated for corporate purposes. Anyone who sponsors the tournament gets a huge allocation of tickets, so if you know someone who works for Mars, McDonalds, Sony, Fujifilm, etc, you might get one through them.
2) Buy one second hand off the black/grey market. On ebay tickets for the popular matches often reach into the £1000s. If not ebay, you can travel out to Germany and advertise the fact that you're looking for a ticket and are willing to be robbed blind for it. So, in other words, only the rich can afford it.
The 'official' tickets for fans I think are allocated to individual FA's, who usually have their own national team fan club. I guess everyone in the fan clus who shows interest in the tickets are entered into a raffle for the tickets or something like that
. Basically, in a country like England, your chances are 1/1000.I think the way tickets are allocated is disgusting and in great danger of ruining the competition.
There was a report on the news earlier about the touts basically, unless you're one of the lucky few who was able to get your hands on a ticket (the percentages actually handed out to the respective Football associations for their fans is criminally small) you're going to have to pay a tout through the nose. The BBC has a couple of reports here and here that might interest you.~Shard~ said:
Ah yes, I heard about this. Fans are apparently having non-adidas clothing confiscated by stewards for the duration of matches adidas, having paid millions to secure branding rights for the tournament, are apparently concerned about the amount of gear being worn emblazoned with branding supplied by non-official sponsors, and have made a complaint to FIFA.Applespider said:
England fans have apparently had to hand over Nike baseball caps, but we've got off lightly compared to the Dutch, as you've mentioned fans arriving to cheer on the Netherlands had to surrender orange lederhosen supplied by a Dutch brewery, leaving them to watch the game in their boxers.
It's pathetic, it really is.
One of the the problems is that while the touts are well ahead of the game (since its their livelihood), they know about the 5 phases of ticket selling and make sure that they apply for the maximum number of tickets for each city/event.
The majority of regular fans probably had no idea that they could have applied for tickets through FIFA in Feb 05, June 05, Sept 05, Jan 06 and May 06 (for the dribs and drabs left) - and might have got some. Just like I'd imagine most of those who dream of going to the Super Bowl in the US, have never entered the NFL ballot, and those who want to go to Wimbledon haven't applied for that ballot either.
The number of tickets for sponsors is wrong though. Sure, the sponsors pay a lot of cash but it's getting ridiculous. Have Budweiser as the only beer that can be promoted at World Cup venues when the event is in Germany which has beer purity laws is just wrong on so many levels.
The majority of regular fans probably had no idea that they could have applied for tickets through FIFA in Feb 05, June 05, Sept 05, Jan 06 and May 06 (for the dribs and drabs left) - and might have got some. Just like I'd imagine most of those who dream of going to the Super Bowl in the US, have never entered the NFL ballot, and those who want to go to Wimbledon haven't applied for that ballot either.
The number of tickets for sponsors is wrong though. Sure, the sponsors pay a lot of cash but it's getting ridiculous. Have Budweiser as the only beer that can be promoted at World Cup venues when the event is in Germany which has beer purity laws is just wrong on so many levels.
xsedrinam said:
Actually, yes! My sister-in-law was born and raised in South Africa, so her and my brother, myself and my wife were all thinking of going there in 2010. Taking in some World Cup festivities would be amazing, and actually attending a game would be phenomenal! So yeah, just wondering what my chances are of actually getting tickets for us, how much they'd cost, what hoops I'd have to jump through and so forth.
If we don't get to see a game it won't be the end of the world, as we'll be trekking out to Victoria Falls, the Serengetti, climbing Kilimanjaro and all that good stuff anyway, but it sure would be nice!
Applespider said:
Thanks for all the info Applespider, good to know. Yeah, I didn't think the odds would be too good in getting tickets, but I thought I'd ask anyway. It's too bad really, but what can ya do...
Indeed. I read in our footie mag though that the Germans actually protested against this prior to the tournament they were appalled that the only beer they would be able to buy at stadiums would be Budweiser. I think in the end FIFA bowed to their pressure and some of the beer stalls are now selling lovely German brews to thirsty spectators.Applespider said:
Jaffa Cake said:
Yikes... Thanks for the links Jaffa Cake, I'll take a look at them...
Applespider said:
Well, sounds like it's not completely impossible, but still, it's a shame it is as difficult, costly and frustrating as it is...
Applespider said:
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing!.
Oh, and thanks for your comments as well FleurDuMal.
~Shard~ said:Yeah, I didn't think the odds would be too good in getting tickets, but I thought I'd ask anyway. It's too bad really, but what can ya do...
Just put a note in your diary to check the FIFA site 18 months beforehand to find out how they plan on selling them. South Africa might be easier than Europe in some ways - it's very easy for people from all over Europe to converge on Germany for tickets. And those people have cash to pay touts.
In South Africa, you'll still get travelling fans but not in the same numbers. It's tougher to organise flights than hop on a train from virtually any part of Europe.
Applespider said:
Good point - I definitely will mark it in my calendar and start my research and quest for tickets early - sounds like it's the only way to have a chance. And yes, hopefully things will be a little better for 2010, but I am cautiously optimistic about that...
Alternatively, as Franz Beckenbauer has proven in Germany this summer, if you're some national idol with your own helicopter, you can get tickets to every single game and, with the help of the helicopter, even attend them as well.
So...I'm working on my Nelson Mandella costume for 2010 already...
So...I'm working on my Nelson Mandella costume for 2010 already...
BakedBeans said:
I don't know why you think I'm having a dig at you or the England team. I'm just stating a FACT: England are not performing as a *team*. Neither you saying otherwise or my affirmation makes it so. What makes it so is simply what is. It may change at any time. Perhaps it will take Rooney to bind them into a cohesive *team*. I can't remember the last time they strung two good games in a row together.
As MacsRgr8 said, I did and do mean *perform* as a team. I've already acknowledged that England has top shelf players (who wouldn't) and I'd love to see the team perform as they should seeing as they have such a wealth of individual skill plus they've been together for a long enough time now. I remember watching Rooney when he was 17 and he was mesmerising even then. Watching England perform as a team so far, (and I'm not just talking about the World Cup) I feel a bit cheated.
I don't understand your argument where you appear to assert the excellence of England because they haven't conceded a goal yet. But earlier you lambasted ordinary teams that defend well. You can't have it both ways.
There's also an element of truth in what Chundles said in post #655 as well
If England were the mighty team you seem to want to believe they are, then you wouldn't even answer my posts, you'd let their football do the talking. But you and I both know they'll be going out in the next round whether it's to Germany or Ecuador.
dogbone said:
Probably something to do with you bring up "facts" about the England team everytime I make a point that you don't like.
No, it IS NOT fact, it's you opinion.
That's probably something to do with your lack of knowledge on the subject. England have won all of their last 8 fixtures including some fantastic wins and performances against Argentina and a rout against jamaica
Again, probably down to lack of knowledge.
There is a big difference between england who have not conceded a goal but have scored, and australia v brazil who defended in an organized fashion but conceded 2 goals and scored none. So I can have it both ways because they are different things.
It often happens when a top premiership side, man utd or liverpool or arsenal face a 2nd division side in the fa cup, they defend deep, and close down space. It makes it hard for hte top premiership side to win because they are stifled, it doesnt make them 1) a great team, or 2) the premiership team a bad side - it just means that they have a manager that knows a system.
Do we?
This is the latest on Togo's situation I've been able to find. Has anyone heard whether or not they showed up for the training session or has any other news links rather than old news from this morning?
"A training session at Dortmund Stadium scheduled for 3.30 p.m. local time was postponed until 8 p.m. because of the late arrival of the squad."
"A training session at Dortmund Stadium scheduled for 3.30 p.m. local time was postponed until 8 p.m. because of the late arrival of the squad."
but baked beans, would you agree that argentina has done a much better job responding to this kind of defending than have some other pre-tournament favorites? or do you argue that for example s&m is just not a very good defensive side (despite their impressive goals against record in qualifying)? would you say that argentina or perhaps spain wouldn't have done better against the aussies today or paraguay? is there just no way a great team can beat a lockdown d other than by squeaking by 1 or 2-0? if it's not possible for a team to do better, why do you keep predicting 4-0 (today) or 5-0 wins (england's last game)? surely at some point you must concede you've made a mistake.
and why when people disagree with you do you so quickly go to "you don't know much about football, then"? is it possible for someone to know quite a bit about the sport and disagree with you? surely your sticking so closely to conventional wisdom in all your predictions and arguments doesn't make you some kind of seer--a total idiot could make the arguments you're making just because they're the most commonly held beliefs. (i'm not saying you are an idiot or that you're not well-versed and insightful on the matter at all.) most of what you say or opine is just traditional thought, so it's not like you're really out on a limb, and just because someone's willing to suggest something other than what the majority is thinking doesn't mean they're ignorant on the matter. perhaps you could respect someone else's opinion as informed even if it's not the same as yours.
and why when people disagree with you do you so quickly go to "you don't know much about football, then"? is it possible for someone to know quite a bit about the sport and disagree with you? surely your sticking so closely to conventional wisdom in all your predictions and arguments doesn't make you some kind of seer--a total idiot could make the arguments you're making just because they're the most commonly held beliefs. (i'm not saying you are an idiot or that you're not well-versed and insightful on the matter at all.) most of what you say or opine is just traditional thought, so it's not like you're really out on a limb, and just because someone's willing to suggest something other than what the majority is thinking doesn't mean they're ignorant on the matter. perhaps you could respect someone else's opinion as informed even if it's not the same as yours.
Even when someone finishes their opinion with a fact that has not even happened yet?! ie England are definitely going out next round. That sort of statement doesnt really help give credibility to the bloke's opinion.fhqwhgads said:
Anyway, maybe Baked Beans does know a thing or two as an England follower, and one indisputable fact is England are the most annoying team in the world when it comes to cup competitions and rarely get their act together early on and need to look uop the word consistent in their dictionary for dummies. It is as though they like to taunt their followers and give the opposition some glimmer (blinding ray) of hope of a victory. The best we can expect is they turn up and astound everyone, including themselves with as much as 45 minutes of uninterrupted stunning football. Then of course the followers hope the goals they scored in that little dazzling display is enough to get them through the second half when they go back to sleep. The signs were all there that Rooney is the key, as England did buck up when he came on. They always say you need luck to win a world cup, no reason why England cant be lucky. My opinion.
billyboy said:
Look, it's silly for me to say it but I suppose I need to. I'm not and never have professed to be an expert or even highly knowledgeable about football, which is why I pontificate only on things that don't require deep knowledge. It's a bit like the Groucho Marx riposte, when he is caught in a compromising position...who are you going to believe? me or your own eyes?. I don't need to be an annorak to see that England struggle to put two good games together and quite often put in a close victory or worse with teams they are expected to thrash. The result against Ireland is the sort of thing that occurs more often than two good games in a row. Jamaica? is BakedBeans boasting about beating them?
The above paragraph is basically what I've been saying but put in a less needling way. But most people surely realise that if a point is being made by and Aussie to someone from the Old Dart and it is even slightly disparaging of England then it is de rigeur that it be done in the most needling way possible. Take the fawning praise, handed out to the cricket team because they won the Ashes by two wickets after Mcgrath rolled his ankle. Btw they were cacking themselves about it when it happened but now Jones is out and they won't be using that as an excuse. We were hearing about the new world order in cricket and since, Australia has thrashed all before them while England lost at home to Sri Lanka. It's only now that it is dawning on the English that their cricket team is in fact made up of a couple of good player and a bunch of sissy girlies who are going to get such a whipping in Australia this year...Where was I, oh yeah, football, Aussie Aussie Ausssie oi oi oi. England are going out on penalties, yay.
Another way to put my gripe against England. They could very well have the most expensive and well paid players in the world. Rooney, Gerrard, Ferdinand, Lampard, fer chrissakes that's about a quarter of a billion AUD$, I'll run that past you again, $250,000,000 and that's only a tiny part of their overpaid squad. Look at their wages $10,000,000 just to Ferdinand. I've just put in a satellite decoder to watch these fairies, (who are a disgrace to their haircuts), is it too much to ask that they can give us 90 minutes of football worthy of their price tags, at least a few times in the top football tournament on earth? I don't think many would disagree that watching Australia against Brazil was better than watching England against either Paraguay or TnT.