Excuse me mods why hasn't this thread been moved? Is this the iPhone forum or not? What's a pre plug doing here?
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The Palm Pre's UI is peerless in its class.
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Palm Pre: Unlikely to Do Any Killing Just Yet
Does your company have specific application requirements?
Does your line of business require specific product features on mobile devices?
Then you want the Treo Pro rather than the Pre.
applecultvictim - just hit the report post button if you think it's misplaced. Though at least it confines the pre vs iPhone debate into 1/2 threads.
Does your company have specific application requirements?
Does your line of business require specific product features on mobile devices?
Then you want the Treo Pro rather than the Pre.
applecultvictim - just hit the report post button if you think it's misplaced. Though at least it confines the pre vs iPhone debate into 1/2 threads.
So is every other smart phone.
So are hacks or troubleshooting for the iPhone but they have separate subforums.
Then post in the Feedback forum and request that there be an "iPhone Competitors" subforum.
Are you serious? Stickies?? Those emulate real sticky notes!
Yes, but what the pre has is note taking software.
The ”coloured sticky note metaphor” does not necessarily follow on. Or rather it does now, because it is obvious (after Apple first ran with the idea many years ago).
Shame that you have to be so selective in your quoting to try and run down my argument.
Yes I am deadly serious. Apple's UI flourishes are in evidence in many places in the screenshots of the pre. If you can't see that then it's not my problem.
I gave some “big” examples of where Palm has borrowed inspiration from Apple (which you choose to ignore in your quote) — I added those to show some small areas where the influence of Cupertino is clearly present.
As for the checkboxes - I was just calling a spade a spade.
Edit: As far as I am aware, many of those who worked on the pre UI at palm are former Apple employees.
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Search next time. These pics and videos have been posted before.
no voice and data at the same time = fail
no voice and data at the same time = fail
Then allow me to further dissect.
And Apple stole that from Art Fry
Does Apple have a patent on colored check boxes? Does Apple have a patent on color?? Why is this relavent?
Which Apple 100% stole from Linux, which was stolen from Sun's project Looking Glass.
Opera....
No.You can listen to Pandora while writing an email. Are you suggesting that on your home computer you run one single application at a time?
Where did I say anything about a home computer?
Comparing a computer to a phone is even more asinine than comparing a phone not out yet with one a year old..
Oh wait....
I will suggest, however, that my home computer has a big enough screen to accomodate more than one app going at the same time at once so I can MULTI-TASK.
Now, as far as TRUE multi-tasking on a cellphone, I can think of ONE way to truly have it be useful on a phone.
It would be nice to be on speaker phone and be able to use Google Maps to pull up directions or to be able to pull up an email.
And with regards to that...
iPhone =
Pre =
I will agree, that it MIGHT be nice to be able to have two programs in memory running. But honestly, I have yet to be inhibited by the limitation on my iPhone.
I can listen to music (iPod) and do other stuff at the same time. Do it all the time.
Hmmm...
Okay, lets take a talley:
Phone Allowing Multiple Running Apps
*Assumptions: Music is actively playing and one is editing their document. Also assuming that you can switch between active apps with a single key stroke/screen swipe.
1) Switch from Doc editor to Music Player
2) Make Changes to Album Playing
3) Switch from Music Player to Doc Editor
4) Continue Editing
iPhone with soon to be released Docs To Go by DataViz
*Assumptions: iPod is actively playing and one is editing their document. Also assuming that DataViz programs in 0 memory of it's own to remember where you were before hitting the home button.
1) Save Document
2) Press Home Button
3) Press iPod Icon
4) Make Changes to Album Playing
5) Press Home Button
6) Launch Doc Editor
7) Continue Editing
So....
All this stuff about background apps is because of a maximum of around three extra button pushes/screen touches totaling maybe 1.5 seconds.
Good grief...
You really think it will only add about a second to quit app 1, launch app 2, do whatever you wanted to do in app 2, launch app one (back to main screen of app btw) go through menus and load up what you were doing, work in app 1, get a text message, repeat.All this stuff about background apps is because of a maximum of around three extra button pushes/screen touches totaling maybe 1.5 seconds.
Good grief...
i find it amusing how you rush to defend palm taking inspiration from Apple, even though no where have I said it is a bad thing (maybe you think it is?).
Also no where in my posts have I ever stated that Apple has never taken inspiration from elsewhere (even though you seem to think I have?).
This is relevant to the thread as the thread states the palm pre UI is peerless in its class, This is clearly not the case as numerous UI elements have been implemented before.
N.B: I didn't see the switch UI idea in that Linux vid at all, or the project looking glass video, so thanks for making me watch it for no reason - a simple screen shot would have done! I have never seen this switch UI on any Linux desktop app.
Also no where in my posts have I ever stated that Apple has never taken inspiration from elsewhere (even though you seem to think I have?).
That's not software. Mapping ideas in real life to software is usually only obvious once someone has done it.
No.
No.
Because they look is similar. From all the UIs you could come up with for choosing the colour of a note - those are awfully similar. Is that how you pick note colour in the current palm OS?
This is relevant to the thread as the thread states the palm pre UI is peerless in its class, This is clearly not the case as numerous UI elements have been implemented before.
So clearly the pre is not peerless here either.
N.B: I didn't see the switch UI idea in that Linux vid at all, or the project looking glass video, so thanks for making me watch it for no reason - a simple screen shot would have done! I have never seen this switch UI on any Linux desktop app.
I think you are getting muddled up with topsites feature (which opera did indeed implement first). I'm talking about the UI for switching between tabs in Mobile Safari.
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Even if it took 5 seconds, who cares?
You do realize that when you LIE about the iPhone while trying to prop the Pre, it tends to make the Pre look inferior in most peoples' eyes, don't you?
See, this is one of the Pre fan boy arguments I love to STOMP IN TO THE EARTH.
Just tested it for the umpteenth time.
My steps:
1) start up my iPod playing a song.
2) Press Home
3) Start up another app. (See below for actual apps used)
4) Navigate to other pages in the app.
5) Press Home
6) Go back to iPod and change play lists.
7) Press home.
8) Go back to app started in step 3.
9) Continue right where I left off in app.
Here are the apps I tested with:
Apple's Native Notes App: took me back to where I was, not the main screen which lists all my notes.
Flight Control: took me right back to my game where I left off, which automatically paused itself.
Checkbook: Took me right back to the account I was looking at, NOT my account list, which is the main screen of the app.
AstroTilt: Took me right back to my game where I left off. A game, by the way, which I was last playing TWO MONTHS AGO.
So, seems to me that apps can save RIGHT where they left off if they want to.
So the only real time I lose is the few seconds the app takes to load back into the device's RAM.
And those few seconds will be even less when the new iPhone comes out.
Oh, and by the way, when my wife is on the phone and I need to read her an email or give her directions, my iPhone can do that.
The Pre, however, can not. So much for "multi-tasking."
So, in my eyes:
iTunes + AppStore + Data and Voice Simultaneously (3 things the Pre can not do) > Saving 3 seconds because the Pre can run two programs in memory at once.
looks really nice.. but i don't know how they got away with this.. looks like a iphone copycat. i wish the iphone had a lot more options like the pre has.
What can the Pre do that the iPhone can't, besides run two programs in memory saving me a whole 3 seconds??
That only works because Apple allows the iPod app to run in the background. Try the same thing with an IM app, Omnifocus, any game, Classics, Color Splash, Google Earth, Idle Hands, really most apps are not coded to save their state when quit.
I've given it some thought, and to me this UI reminds me of MS approach on UI vs Apples.
The pre is flashy, colorful, looks good but busy. Reminds me of Vista's look.
I like Apples look more because to me it seems like they go with a great looking interface, but understand that its the content that you are supposed to be focused on, not the UI. To me the UI of OSX is great in that it allows you to look right passed it.
Vista to me is just too eye catching and got old, really really fast. This is what the pre UI reminds me of.
The pre is flashy, colorful, looks good but busy. Reminds me of Vista's look.
I like Apples look more because to me it seems like they go with a great looking interface, but understand that its the content that you are supposed to be focused on, not the UI. To me the UI of OSX is great in that it allows you to look right passed it.
Vista to me is just too eye catching and got old, really really fast. This is what the pre UI reminds me of.
Ah.
Did you even read my post? Try it with any game?
AstroTilt is a game that I have not played for MONTHS. I have pulled up COUNTLESS applications since I last played it, not just the iPod.
And it continued right where I left off.
So now you are changing your quite declarative statement of "back to main screen of app btw"
to
"back to main screen of app when the app's programmer isn't smart enough to save your spot on exit."
So now the iPhone is at fault for shoddy 3rd party programming?
Well, let's see when 3rd party apps are written for the Pre and then we can compare that.
The bottom line is, the ONLY advantage the Pre has in this department is saving the SECONDS it takes to load an app in to memory. Period.
But like I said above....
When the Pre can:
1) Sync with my existing iTunes account with 100's of dollars of purchased music.
2) Make a phone call and surf the web simultaneously. (IMHO, the most important multi-tasking there is on a mobile phone.)
3) Access a QUALITY app store
Then I might consider it on the same level with my iPhone, which is a year old by the way.
The only unique thing I noticed is the rounded corner.
Otherwise, it feels clustered. It may look nice at the first glance, but I won't say the usability is good.
Let's get real. Most of the screenshots uses a variation of Apple's table view, with a some different background color.
The problem is that a lot of the UI elements are there not for usability purpose, but just to look nice.
At iPhone Tech Talk, Apple specifically recommended against making the UI too fancy. For example: all controls should be 44x44 minimum so they are easily tapped by fingers. Use animation to indication an action (not just because you can). Make navigation clean and easy to follow...
Take a look at the Pre UI, the first thing I noticed was the rounded corners. The next thing - I don't know what half of the screens do. Take a look at the screens of the Contact app.... I am totally lost.
Also, take a look at the Notepad app. From a glance, in a particular note page, how do I get back to the overview?
In the To-do app, how do I delete a task (without completing it)?
It seems the Pre apps still borrows heavily from desktop UI, with the menu being essential (the menus do look nice). Geeks won't mind use menu (and multiple clicks), but Apple has done away with it in iPhone completely.
By the way, if not for the rounded corner, it will look very like iPhone (and maybe future Android and Windows Mobile).
Otherwise, it feels clustered. It may look nice at the first glance, but I won't say the usability is good.
Let's get real. Most of the screenshots uses a variation of Apple's table view, with a some different background color.
The problem is that a lot of the UI elements are there not for usability purpose, but just to look nice.
At iPhone Tech Talk, Apple specifically recommended against making the UI too fancy. For example: all controls should be 44x44 minimum so they are easily tapped by fingers. Use animation to indication an action (not just because you can). Make navigation clean and easy to follow...
Take a look at the Pre UI, the first thing I noticed was the rounded corners. The next thing - I don't know what half of the screens do. Take a look at the screens of the Contact app.... I am totally lost.
Also, take a look at the Notepad app. From a glance, in a particular note page, how do I get back to the overview?
In the To-do app, how do I delete a task (without completing it)?
It seems the Pre apps still borrows heavily from desktop UI, with the menu being essential (the menus do look nice). Geeks won't mind use menu (and multiple clicks), but Apple has done away with it in iPhone completely.
By the way, if not for the rounded corner, it will look very like iPhone (and maybe future Android and Windows Mobile).
Darn.
I wish I could have seen what you had said.
Just for the fun of it of course. LOL...
Yes! I was thinking why Pre gave me a familiar feeling. Vista is exactly it!
If you look at screenshots only, Vista looks very nice (yes, nicer than Leopard).... and Zune software looks nicer than iTunes.
Re multitasking, as you know, on jailbroken iPhones, you can run apps in the background. Besides radio apps like Pandora and IM apps like fring, I've found it useful to run timer apps in the background. For instance, there's this app called Subway Snooze (http://appshopper.com/utilities/nyc-subway-snooze). I get on the subway, start this app, set it up to alert me a minute before I get to my stop, send it to the background, and start reading a book in Stanza or Kindle. I can now get totally absorbed in my latest downloaded novel without worrying about missing my stop!
I thought you had said that no backround processes were the result of bad 3rd party programming. A complete mistake on my part.
As for changing the song while in another app, many seem to be forgetting that you can set the double click home button to bring up a small music controls panel (I don't really know how else to describe it). I have an iPod touch so I'm kind of forced to have that.
Anyways, talking more about the relevant topic, the Pre, I think NT1440 put it very well that the Palm Pre UI is flashy and colorful, similar to Vista but that it gets old. I do agree though that it would be nice to have a slightly freshened UI on the iPhone or even more customizations. One thing that bugs me so much about the Palm Pre is the rounded corners on the UI. IMO, that type of thing gets old very quickly and it already has for me just looking at pictures of the UI.
Another thing that the Pre is missing is as seamless integration as the iPhone (I know very few people who would classify drag-n-drop as a good way to manage media). It doesn't seem to be as media oriented as the iPhone, which for many is an important feature. And frankly I find it very ugly (too thick for me and the hardware colors don't go well together IMO), however the iPhone has things as well that bother me.
Which I think that brings me to an important point: one phone is not going to be best for everyone. Not everyone needs extensive multi-task support (for me personally, it would be nice but I'm not up in arms over the lack of it in the iPhone OS), or conversely seamless media integration. So for some, the Pre is much better than the iPhone because it supports selective things well, while for others, the iPhone is much better as it provides what many see as a good compromise of features and overall experience. In the end, we also have to see how the Pre UI functions in real world usage, which we haven't seen yet. But I think what a lot of people are missing is that different people have different needs and it gets ludicrous to a point to argue about things that ultimately boil down to personal preference.
I hope that all makes sense.
Anyways, talking more about the relevant topic, the Pre, I think NT1440 put it very well that the Palm Pre UI is flashy and colorful, similar to Vista but that it gets old. I do agree though that it would be nice to have a slightly freshened UI on the iPhone or even more customizations. One thing that bugs me so much about the Palm Pre is the rounded corners on the UI. IMO, that type of thing gets old very quickly and it already has for me just looking at pictures of the UI.
Another thing that the Pre is missing is as seamless integration as the iPhone (I know very few people who would classify drag-n-drop as a good way to manage media). It doesn't seem to be as media oriented as the iPhone, which for many is an important feature. And frankly I find it very ugly (too thick for me and the hardware colors don't go well together IMO), however the iPhone has things as well that bother me.
Which I think that brings me to an important point: one phone is not going to be best for everyone. Not everyone needs extensive multi-task support (for me personally, it would be nice but I'm not up in arms over the lack of it in the iPhone OS), or conversely seamless media integration. So for some, the Pre is much better than the iPhone because it supports selective things well, while for others, the iPhone is much better as it provides what many see as a good compromise of features and overall experience. In the end, we also have to see how the Pre UI functions in real world usage, which we haven't seen yet. But I think what a lot of people are missing is that different people have different needs and it gets ludicrous to a point to argue about things that ultimately boil down to personal preference.
I hope that all makes sense.