The problem with iOS 7 and iOS 8: bad design

[TheRainKing]

iOS 1-5 felt like genuine effort had gone into the UI, and it really was a joy to use. iOS 7 on the other hand, just feels like it was rushed. The OS is slower and less intuitive, the icons are boring and uninspiring, the apps are tacky and poorly designed. It's the very definition of a step backwards.

 

[El Tuga]

I just don't understand this change. I miss the old "real" buttons. Maybe this didn't fit in with Apple's resolution scaling (whatever the iPhone 6 Plus is not very good at)?

Yes, that is the (easy) way to handle the fragmentation caused by the myriad of screen sizes we have now. That, (and the fact that along with Forstall, some of the best iOS designers also abandoned ship, have the right peolple to redesign UI elements) is also why they created this anti-skewmorphic buzz (which btw only helped android).

They could at least put some outlines on the buttons (like the Facebook app) or a fill of a different tone, maybe if translucid...and also put a different tone in navbars and tolbars...

Or come up with a real innovative UI, like the fabulous video with which they started the iOS 7 keynote suggested!!

Anything but the current iOS design. A text based touch UI will never work well.

 

[I7guy]

Car analogies...well, what if after turning the steering wheel a little to the left as you drive to adjust for what the road is like whatever you did with the steering wheel for the next second wouldn't register and only after that would it start registering what you do next. So if you had to move a little left and then back straight or a bit to the right, who in their right mind would think its OK that the car simply wouldn't do anything as they turn the steering wheel back to the right until a second later when it would start responding. No one would buy a car like that. You can bet that responsiveness is important and pretty high up there, even above speed.

Notice I said starting the car, not braking or steering. Example, if it makes a difference in your life if your takes 5 seconds to turn on your phone vs 30 or .25 seconds to open an app vs .5 seconds then you go with what works.

Delays are inherent in all computer systems of this ilk. It is a problem however if my brakes don't respond or 911 operators don't pick up.

imo it's not an issue for me or anyone I know if my screen takes .5 seconds to register. All of this falls under the category making a mountain out of a manhole. But to close the loop on the car analogy, running iOS 3 is like stepping on the gas and having it take 30 seconds to get to 60 while my 5s starts moving in one second but gets to 60 in an additional 4 seconds.

There are things in life that require real-time response and things that don't.

 

[deluxeshredder]

Yes, that is the (easy) way to handle the fragmentation caused by the myriad of screen sizes we have now.

iOS still doesn't have resolution independence and flexible DPI options like Android, iPhone 6+ still downscales the UI down to 1080x1920. And nothing precludes resolution independent ornate UIs.

 

[El Tuga]

Lag is the most terrible of plagues. It takes the pleasure out of multitouch and it can be quite annoying if you press the wrong button due to ui refresh lag.

Again, it shows the lack of care that went into iOS 7 design. The only design feature that actually looks good, makes it slow. The amount of processing that is required to present a translucent view and keep it updated is crazy!! As good as translucency looks, a cosmetic feature should not consume so many resources (processor, battery) especially on a mobile device.

God, the more I think of it the more I hate iOS 7/8...

 

[C DM]

Notice I said starting the car, not braking or steering. Example, if it makes a difference in your life if your takes 5 seconds to turn on your phone vs 30 or .25 seconds to open an app vs .5 seconds then you go with what works.

Delays are inherent in all computer systems of this ilk. It is a problem however if my brakes don't respond or 911 operators don't pick up.

imo it's not an issue for me or anyone I know if my screen takes .5 seconds to register. All of this falls under the category making a mountain out of a manhole. But to close the loop on the car analogy, running iOS 3 is like stepping on the gas and having it take 30 seconds to get to 60 while my 5s starts moving in one second but gets to 60 in an additional 4 seconds.

There are things in life that require real-time response and things that don't.

Starting the car wouldn't be as analogous to usability response of doing things on a phone as much as steering it would be, which is why if (somehat poor) car metaphors would be used I figure that at least more applicable one should be applied.

While response on a phone isn't something critical it is something that the brain of many notices making the experience that much less than optimal. Of course it's not a critical issue if some feel the phone isn't responsive, but for something people put out a lot of money for, and usually every year or two or so, seems like it wouldn't be all that irrational to not feel good about it if it's not performing as best as it could.

 

[I7guy]

Starting the car wouldn't be as analogous to usability response of doing things on a phone as much as steering it would be, which is why if (somehat poor) car metaphors would be used I figure that at least more applicable one should be applied.

While response on a phone isn't something critical it is something that the brain of many notices making the experience that much less than optimal. Of course it's not a critical issue if some feel the phone isn't responsive, but for something people put out a lot of money for, and usually every year or two or so, seems like it wouldn't be all that irrational to not feel good about it if it's not performing as best as it could.

As YOU "yourself" said in a prior post, there is no such thing as a "high bar" of perfection no matter how much you pay for a phone. This is true.

I have never noticed this slight delay since I started using an iphone until yesterday. To me it's not a critical issue; and I don't care whether apple fixes this or not. Others feel differently. With 100 million IOS devices out there, there are 100 million opinions. IOS will never be perfect; but apple should address the various things that are definite glitches such as:
- occasional loss of wifi password
- landscape/portrait orientation issues
- select/cut/copy/paste
- spell check/suggested words

 

[C DM]

As YOU "yourself" said in a prior post, there is no such thing as a "high bar" of perfection no matter how much you pay for a phone. This is true.

I have never noticed this slight delay since I started using an iphone until yesterday. To me it's not a critical issue; and I don't care whether apple fixes this or not. Others feel differently. With 100 million IOS devices out there, there are 100 million opinions. IOS will never be perfect; but apple should address the various things that are definite glitches such as:
- occasional loss of wifi password
- landscape/portrait orientation issues
- select/cut/copy/paste
- spell check/suggested words

Sure, some are affected by some things while others aren't, and some might not care about some things that they are even affected by while others do care.

With the money being certainly a noticeable factor for many, potentially more perfection is expected (and arguably appropriately so given that same kind of things apply to many things in life, like having appropriately high expectations of a more expensive luxury car model compared to a cheaper value brand, to use a car example). So that means if something isn't quite as good as it could or should be for some, those people would feel the desire to complain about it, especially if something became worse (at least for them) simply because of some upgrade the manufacturer released on the same device they had that was better before (again at least for them).

Some will feel that way about more things than others and some will feel it stronger than some others. They aren't somehow more in the wrong or in the bad about feeling this way and complaining than those who either don't feel that way or decide not to do anything about it (like complain at least, given that often there's not much more that can ultimately be done).

 

[I7guy]

Sure, some are affected by some things while others aren't, and some might not care about some things that they are even affected by while others do care.

With the money being certainly a noticeable factor for many, potentially more perfection is expected (and arguably appropriately so given that same kind of things apply to many things in life, like having appropriately high expectations of a more expensive luxury car model compared to a cheaper value brand, to use a car example). So that means if something isn't quite as good as it could or should be for some, those people would feel the desire to complain about it, especially if something became worse (at least for them) simply because of some upgrade the manufacturer released on the same device they had that was better before (again at least for them).

Some will feel that way about more things than others and some will feel it stronger than some others. They aren't somehow more in the wrong or in the bad about feeling this way and complaining than those who either don't feel that way or decide not to do anything about it (like complain at least, given that often there's not much more that can ultimately be done).

Just because an item is expensive doesn't mean it will meet your requirements and do exactly what you want it do or will ever do exactly what you want it do.

Sure one is not wrong for discussing or complaining, nor is one wrong for acknowledging the discussion or complaint in either an agreement or disagreement. And one has to expect when they discuss there will be more discussion.

 

[C DM]

Just because an item is expensive doesn't mean it will meet your requirements and do exactly what you want it do or will ever do exactly what you want it do.

Sure one is not wrong for discussing or complaining, nor is one wrong for acknowledging the discussion or complaint in either an agreement or disagreement. And one has to expect when they discuss there will be more discussion.

There can be an expectation of something from a more of a luxury item. Many people might have lower expectations or not care much one way or another, but it doesn't mean that some higher expectations are unreasonable just because of that. Some might be, but plenty of others might not (again even if they don't matter to many others or aren't anything critical). There is a middle ground to it all.

 

[El Tuga]

iOS 1-5 felt like genuine effort had gone into the UI, and it really was a joy to use. iOS 7 on the other hand, just feels like it was rushed. The OS is slower and less intuitive, the icons are boring and uninspiring, the apps are tacky and poorly designed. It's the very definition of a step backwards.

So true! I feel your pain...I may add it was an unnecessary step backwards, if it weren't for the ego of some people at Apple!

 

[I7guy]

There can be an expectation of something from a more of a luxury item. Many people might have lower expectations or not care much one way or another, but it doesn't mean that some higher expectations are unreasonable just because of that. Some might be, but plenty of others might not (again even if they don't matter to many others or aren't anything critical). There is a middle ground to it all.

I guess the keyword is expectation. With 100 millions iOS devices there certainly won't be pleasing everybody. It would be virtually impossible for Apple to produce a device that pleases everybody. Does the .25 second lag matter to most people? I don't know it doesn't matter to me. Will people walk or will it affect sales? Probably but nobody will really notice, because it's a blip.

 

[C DM]

I guess the keyword is expectation. With 100 millions iOS devices there certainly won't be pleasing everybody. It would be virtually impossible for Apple to produce a device that pleases everybody. Does the .25 second lag matter to most people? I don't know it doesn't matter to me. Will people walk or will it affect sales? Probably but nobody will really notice, because it's a blip.

Probably not something that will play much of a role for most, as I also mentioned. Still, for a brand that is known for quality, performance, and even associated with some level of luxury there will certainly be more people expecting somewhat more, especially if older versions of the OS gave that to them before already. Getting back to the whole car analogy, quite a few of those who buy some particular luxury brand that is known for quality and performance would have some level of complaints if something was suddenly even a little different about the performance or response of their car after some update. Of course many won't even notice or care, but there will still be a fair number of those who are devoted customers of the brand and have had many or some models in the past and are more "car people" types who would notice and would have legitimate concerns (again, even if those don't really matter to many others who just don't care or don't even notice things).

 

[I7guy]

Probably not something that will play much of a role for most, as I also mentioned. Still, for a brand that is known for quality, performance, and even associated with some level of luxury there will certainly be more people expecting somewhat more, especially if older versions of the OS gave that to them before already. Getting back to the whole car analogy, quite a few of those who buy some particular luxury brand that is known for quality and performance would have some level of complaints if something was suddenly even a little different about the performance or response of their car after some update. Of course many won't even notice or care, but there will still be a fair number of those who are devoted customers of the brand and have had many or some models in the past and are more "car people" types who would notice and would have legitimate concerns (again, even if those don't really matter to many others who just don't care or don't even notice things).

Even buying a "luxury" type item does not automatically mean the item will perform as the buyer would like. There are always some compromises. I'm not saying the manufacturer shouldn't attempt to fix some of these compromises, but why should they focus on some innocuous niggling issue only bothering some small percentage of their customers?

Discussing Apple in particular, I certainly would like a "Perfect" phone, but I don't expect I will ever see that perfect combination of hardware and software which makes for astounding user experience. Just won't happen; there will always be something to be improved, something somebody doesn't like or thinks doesn't work well.

I can be content to live with some minor imperfections, others can't, I guess but that is what makes MR a diverse place.

 

[C DM]

Even buying a "luxury" type item does not automatically mean the item will perform as the buyer would like. There are always some compromises. I'm not saying the manufacturer shouldn't attempt to fix some of these compromises, but why should they focus on some innocuous niggling issue only bothering some small percentage of their customers?

Discussing Apple in particular, I certainly would like a "Perfect" phone, but I don't expect I will ever see that perfect combination of hardware and software which makes for astounding user experience. Just won't happen; there will always be something to be improved, something somebody doesn't like or thinks doesn't work well.

I can be content to live with some minor imperfections, others can't, I guess but that is what makes MR a diverse place.

Well, like I said, with luxury items expectations from those who are aficionados are higher and not necesasrily misplaced especially if they got used to a certain level of performance and stability from previous models, and if the manufacturer themselves has basically distinguished itself in those types of areas. Others who are just getting something just to get it might not care, but again it doesn't diminish what those who do care observe.

Now will it get fixed or improved or any of that is a somehat different question. But, again, that still doesn't devalue what those people who care bring up and discuss. And many performance and luxury brands in various product areas do care about how their products peform and will tweak even little things because they are dedicated to quality and higher perception of their work. Now Apple is likely not necessarily at that level as theirs are more mass produced and less luxurious products, but they still set themselves to higher standards in general nonetheless, at least that's certainly how they try to come off.

 

[I7guy]

Well, like I said, with luxury items expectations from those who are aficionados are higher and not necesasrily misplaced especially if they got used to a certain level of performance and stability from previous models, and if the manufacturer themselves has basically distinguished itself in those types of areas. Others who are just getting something just to get it might not care, but again it doesn't diminish what those who do care observe.

Now will it get fixed or improved or any of that is a somehat different question. But, again, that still doesn't devalue what those people who care bring up and discuss. And many performance and luxury brands in various product areas do care about how their products peform and will tweak even little things because they are dedicated to quality and higher perception of their work. Now Apple is likely not necessarily at that level as theirs are more mass produced and less luxurious products, but they still set themselves to higher standards in general nonetheless, at least that's certainly how they try to come off.

Devalue and diminish are strong words.

It does seem like my comments about how unimportant some of these items are being devalued and diminished.

All comments then should carry the same weight. Carry on.

 

[MaciMac100]

We don't have to quess what will happen to Apple without Steve Jobs; we have already seen it before!

Also we don't have all the information why Scott Forstall was fired...

 

[El Tuga]

We don't have to quess what will happen to Apple without Steve Jobs; we have already seen it before!

Also we don't have all the information why Scott Forstall was fired...

There was this buzz including magazine articles back then about Forstall being the next Steve Jobs, because the guy was really good...he was fired because Jony and Tim felt he was on their way.

So he was framed and apple lost the guy that, other then jobs, made apple the huge success company it is today (iPhone is currently 80% of apple's business).

I'm really worried that the guys that took seem to have no clue, and that Jony has no taste for software. They could at least have honored and used the excellent work that was done so far, instead of making that ugly iOS re-skin which is iOS 7. Sad...

 

[duffman9000]

We don't have to quess what will happen to Apple without Steve Jobs; we have already seen it before!

Also we don't have all the information why Scott Forstall was fired...

You know what also happened under Jobs and Forstall?

1. No control center.
2. No notification center.
3. Apple released a horrible mapping app.
4. No larger phones. Apple then says "we could have done this years ago". Baloney.
5. The iPad mini was released over Jobs' objections.
6. Senior engineers couldn't stand to be in the same room with a certain someone.
7. No custom keyboards.
8. iOS stagnated in its sharing options.

iOS, unlike every other modern OS, still doesn't allow a user to change the default applications. Happened under Jobs.

If Forstall and Jobs where cut from the same mold, then I'll believe Forstall refused to apologize for Apple Maps. Jobs would have told us we were mapping it wrong. People just want to forget how bad it was at release. Apple initially labeled it as the most powerful mapping service ever. Apple had to quickly change that lol.

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There was this buzz including magazine articles back then about Forstall being the next Steve Jobs, because the guy was really good...he was fired because Jony and Tim felt he was on their way.

So he was framed and apple lost the guy that, other then jobs, made apple the huge success company it is today (iPhone is currently 80% of apple's business).

Oh dear... If the quality of Apple Maps was a frame up, then it was the worst frame up in history. Bystanders saw that disaster months before release. The insiders had to know it was disaster coming. So everyone knew, except the man who was in charge of iOS? Yeah sure...

I bet Forstall thought he would be protected by some kind of magic, in his case his previous accomplishments, to prevent the train from smashing into him. Forstall is lucky Jobs wasn't in charge. Jobs has humiliated others for much less.

 

[C DM]

You know what also happened under Jobs and Forstall?

1. No control center.
2. No notification center.
3. Apple released a horrible mapping app.
4. No larger phones. Apple then says "we could have done this years ago". Baloney.
5. The iPad mini was released over Jobs' objections.
6. Senior engineers couldn't stand to be in the same room with a certain someone.
7. No custom keyboards.
8. iOS stagnated in its sharing options.

iOS, unlike every other modern OS, still doesn't allow a user to change the default applications. Happened under Jobs.

If Forstall and Jobs where cut from the same mold, then I'll believe Forstall refused to apologize for Apple Maps. Jobs would have told us we were mapping it wrong. People just want to forget how bad it was at release. Apple initially labeled it as the most powerful mapping service ever. Apple had to quickly change that lol.

----------



Oh dear... If the quality of Apple Maps was a frame up, then it was the worst frame up in history. Bystanders saw that disaster months before release. The insiders had to know it was disaster coming. So everyone knew, except the man who was in charge of iOS? Yeah sure...

I bet Forstall thought he would be protected by some kind of magic, in his case his previous accomplishments, to prevent the train from smashing into him. Forstall is lucky Jobs wasn't in charge. Jobs has humiliated others for much less.

And if it wasn't for them all those things would have been there from the beginning or that much earlier? Of perhaps there wouldn't habe been an iPhone/iPad and iOS at all or maybe they would have been with as much success as Palm phones or BlackBerry phones enjoy these days. It's fun to imagine, isn't it.

 

[duffman9000]

And if it wasn't for them all those things would have been there from the beginning or that much earlier? Of perhaps there wouldn't habe been an iPhone/iPad and iOS at all or maybe they would have been with as much success as Palm phones or BlackBerry phones enjoy these days. It's fun to imagine, isn't it.

That's true, but they are also the people who block progress because they think Apple is right and everyone else is wrong. I doubt Jobs had it in him to apologize for Apple Maps.

 

[C DM]

That's true, but they are also the people who block progress because they think Apple is right and everyone else is wrong. I doubt Jobs had it in him to apologize for Apple Maps.

And in many ways they were proven more than right given the success of many of their products and the company itself.

 

[duffman9000]

And in many ways they were proven more than right given the success of many of their products and the company itself.

You just want to argue just to argue. If past success is indicative of future success, Apple wouldn't have lost it's desktop lead. Did you forget that? The things Steve built fell apart due to Apple being Apple.

 

[C DM]

You just want to argue just to argue. If past success is indicative of future success, Apple wouldn't have lost it's desktop lead. Did you forget that? The things Steve built fell apart due to Apple being Apple.

Argue to argue? Just pointing out actual reality vs imagined reality. Didn't say anything about the future or anything like that.

 

[JobsGang]

Painful to who? Apple who had a blockbuster quarter based on iPhone 6 sales? Me, who likes the software and design? The competition where Apple seems to be mopping up in both sales and units?

Some of these guys don't realize that they are in the minority opinion. They must live in a bubble like the bubble boy. Most people don't give a damn about gradients and shadows and buttons and all the other silly nonsense they complain about.