If only they used that progress and money made to strengthen their network they might not be as afraid. I was a happy iPhone and 3G owner until I moved to San Francisco and found 3G to be useless and left. Part of my is naive thought, I sometimes think that they must be trying their absolute best and something keeps going wrong. Why wouldn't they want to have the best network?
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'The Truth Hurts': Verizon Zings AT&T in Advertising Spat
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If only they used that progress and money made to strengthen their network they might not be as afraid. I was a happy iPhone and 3G owner until I moved to San Francisco and found 3G to be useless and left. Part of my is naive thought, I sometimes think that they must be trying their absolute best and something keeps going wrong. Why wouldn't they want to have the best network?
I get your point - the key to it I think you are saying is that the exclusivity agreement is unlawful and anti-competitive. Not following you there. I see nothing wrong with two companies coming to an exclusive arrangement in a market where there are plenty of other competitors.
The argument that Apple has a duty to make the iPhone for other carriers, or has a duty to license OS X to other hardware makers are very similar arguments to me, that I believe neither holds water.
AT&T you suck!
Apple you can thank AT&T for me dropping the iPhone and going back to Verizon. I hope AT&T reads this exact post. AT&T YOU SUCK! You are thee most horrendous service I have ever had. I am going to end up paying $175 just to get out of this contract because your service is THAT BAD! And trust me I know from experience, I used to have Verizon before switching to AT&T, which btw was the biggest mistake of my life.
IF YOU ARE READING THIS AND YOU ARE THINKING OF SWITCHING TO AT&T JUST TO GET THE IPHONE IT IS NOT WORTH IT! WAIT TILL IT COMES OUT WITH VERIZON!
(And for people who say they have great service where they live.. well I don't care because AT&T does not get good service throughout the United States.)
And one other thing it is funny, in this day and age how advanced we are and there are still dead zones is just ridiculous.
AT&T YOU SUCK AND I WILL BE DUMPING YOU!
Apple you can thank AT&T for me dropping the iPhone and going back to Verizon. I hope AT&T reads this exact post. AT&T YOU SUCK! You are thee most horrendous service I have ever had. I am going to end up paying $175 just to get out of this contract because your service is THAT BAD! And trust me I know from experience, I used to have Verizon before switching to AT&T, which btw was the biggest mistake of my life.
IF YOU ARE READING THIS AND YOU ARE THINKING OF SWITCHING TO AT&T JUST TO GET THE IPHONE IT IS NOT WORTH IT! WAIT TILL IT COMES OUT WITH VERIZON!
(And for people who say they have great service where they live.. well I don't care because AT&T does not get good service throughout the United States.)
And one other thing it is funny, in this day and age how advanced we are and there are still dead zones is just ridiculous.
AT&T YOU SUCK AND I WILL BE DUMPING YOU!
I disagree that with your assessment of the competitive landscape, but reasonable minds certainly can--and do--differ on that one. In my opinion, there aren't plenty of competitors and the pricing and lack of innovation supports this, but the other side has compelling arguments, too. Regardless, it is not so much the end result of this particular issue as it is the discussion and the regular examination of our markets to determine that they are functioning as they should. Which is to say, that the consumer isn't getting shafted by illegal tying, cartels, etc.
And more generally (i.e., not directed at you czachorski) the "don't like it, don't buy it" line exemplifies the kind of surface groupthink that gets us into a lot of trouble. The evidence of that is ample. I would have thought that this board, given the mythology of Apple's "non-conformist" bent, would be more immune to this type of mentality. But I was wrong. This board has shown repeatedly that it is pro-corporation and anti-consumer. It makes sense if most of the posters are shareholders. Otherwise, it is baffling.
But I appear to be in the minority on this one.
This reminds me of Cuban's suggestion that Microsoft pay off the top websites to pull their sites from Google (http://blogmaverick.com/). Do you think there is anything wrong with that? It's the same thing, we'll pay you $x to only do business with us.
I see the exclusives as being anti-competitive for this reason: The marketplace should decide which phone on which carrier is #1, not artificial agreements made by companies. If the iPhone on Verizon would crush AT&T, then AT&T should be crushed, or improve its performance to please the market.
With that said since that is not the case I do not blame AT&T or Apple, or any other exclusive deal for having them.
You are talking about quality, a feature of few products that is NOT guaranteed by any governmental rules. (food products may be an exception) A lack of quality does not mean there are no products nor competition.
No, I'm not talking about quality--that's a rather simplistic reading of the back and forth on this topic. And who said anything about quality being guaranteed by "governmental rules"? Pervasive mediocrity, slow innovation, and increasing prices are simply symptoms that can be attributed to anticompetitive behavior. Are they proof? No, probably just correlative, but those symptoms are the exact things that consumers can expect when they stop caring about competition in the marketplace, and many here have done exactly that.
I've now beaten this horse to death, but my recommendation stands--go to the various websites of the agencies tasked with consumer protection and antitrust enforcement. Read about the underlying economics and policies concerning competition. While there, take a look at the guidance on advertising (FTC), which will give a good background for the AT&T suit. It would certainly add to a more informed discourse, and could open a few eyes.
Think different? Not quite. Think critically.
and what about this commercial LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JgrBtn8XdU&feature=player_embedded
wow that's painful. my iPhone cried when I watched it.
wow that's painful. my iPhone cried when I watched it.
Verizon has more 3G coverage because moving from 2G CDMA to 3G CDMA was basically a software update that an IT guy sitting in an office can deploy to all the towers in the area. But all that does is turn on the 3G indicator on your phone, that's it. If they didn't upgrade the backhaul connections to the towers, which they probably didn't in the rural areas since there's so little use of them, you're not going to actually get 3G speeds. In contrast, AT&T has to physically go out to each tower and install new equipment to make it 3G.
Verizon's coverage map tells you where you can get the 3G indicator on your phone to show up, even if at 2G speeds. AT&T's coverage map shows you where you can get 3G speeds.
Verizon's coverage map tells you where you can get the 3G indicator on your phone to show up, even if at 2G speeds. AT&T's coverage map shows you where you can get 3G speeds.
You have to admit though that commercial is hilarious! Whoever came up with that idea for a commercial should get a raise. The other two with the elves giving the bad boy an AT&T device and the AT&T customer who is having a "Blue Christmas" are also genius even if they are awfully harsh on AT&T. That is what I call effective advertising. They might not be classy, but they are funny and deliver a knock-out punch.
Well if all Verizon had to do is punch a couple of buttons to go from 2G to 3G I guess they picked a pretty smart upgrade path. Granted going to a CDMA/LTE hybrid voice/data is going to take a lot more work, but I am guessing they are picking the path that will make future upgrades easy as well.
As far as I know everything on Verizon is running EVDO Rev. A (3G) right now. I don't think they are running 1xRTT (2G) anywhere anymore. If Verizon is actually running a 2G network and just making the 3G indicator light up I would say that is a serious case of advertising fraud. They would be in court by now. I can't remember the last time I didn't see 3G light up on my phone and I can tell you I would know if it said 3G but I was only getting 1xRTT speed.
By the way I live in South Dakota. You can't get much more rural then that and I can tell you that Verizon 3G is very fast here. So I think your theory about Verizon not actually running a 3G network in rural areas is wrong.
Going to LTE will be much more difficult for Verizon, and I'd put money on them having a better LTE network than AT&T.
One thing that always ceases to amaze me about this argument over which carrier is better is the fact that most in these forums ignore the fact that AT&T has 60 million plus NON iPHONE subscribers. This is important because to these folks, the iPhone is not why they're on the AT&T network. Must be reliable enough to suit their needs.
Why is everything in America now a big competition? I read these forums everyday and laugh about how much we defend these huge companies that could care less about anything other than our wallets. After using Windows all of my life I switched to Apple because a fews years ago I felt MS stopped paying attention to the consumer/home user and focused more on the big network business clients. If Apple ever loses sight of this, I'll be headed back to Windows who looks like they're getting things back on track.
When I left Verizon for the iPhone and AT&T I must admit I was nervous, but I had many a friend without the iPhone on AT&T's network that assured me it was solid here WHERE I LIVE AND WORK. I made the move and I must say that it has been rock solid. But I can tell you I was completely prepared to turn in my iPhone and go back if it didn't work. Why would anyone put up with crap if it doesn't work?
Don't think that AT&T doesn't have the date of their exclusivity with iPhone circled in red on their calendar. And for the record, nobody knows for sure when this date is and it's nothing but speculation at this point that Apple is even considering a CDMA phone. My prediction is we will see many network enhancements at AT&T in the next year because at the end of your contract why do you leave if its working for you? I for one will not be leaving AT&T for Verizon if it happens because AT&T works for me and in the rare event I leave the country, it will most likely work for me there too. All I suppose I'm trying to say is it's your money, you're the fool if your sticking with any phone on any crappy network just because you like the phone. Use the network that works for you with a phone you like and PLEASE unless your getting free service from Verizon or AT&T wake up and realize that were all pawns to these guys.
Why is everything in America now a big competition? I read these forums everyday and laugh about how much we defend these huge companies that could care less about anything other than our wallets. After using Windows all of my life I switched to Apple because a fews years ago I felt MS stopped paying attention to the consumer/home user and focused more on the big network business clients. If Apple ever loses sight of this, I'll be headed back to Windows who looks like they're getting things back on track.
When I left Verizon for the iPhone and AT&T I must admit I was nervous, but I had many a friend without the iPhone on AT&T's network that assured me it was solid here WHERE I LIVE AND WORK. I made the move and I must say that it has been rock solid. But I can tell you I was completely prepared to turn in my iPhone and go back if it didn't work. Why would anyone put up with crap if it doesn't work?
Don't think that AT&T doesn't have the date of their exclusivity with iPhone circled in red on their calendar. And for the record, nobody knows for sure when this date is and it's nothing but speculation at this point that Apple is even considering a CDMA phone. My prediction is we will see many network enhancements at AT&T in the next year because at the end of your contract why do you leave if its working for you? I for one will not be leaving AT&T for Verizon if it happens because AT&T works for me and in the rare event I leave the country, it will most likely work for me there too. All I suppose I'm trying to say is it's your money, you're the fool if your sticking with any phone on any crappy network just because you like the phone. Use the network that works for you with a phone you like and PLEASE unless your getting free service from Verizon or AT&T wake up and realize that were all pawns to these guys.
I don't think it will be any harder than ATandT going to LTE in a few year. What I do expect, since verizon is doing it now, is that the equiptment will be a bit more expensive since it's so new. ATandT should be able to get a lower cost being a few years behind.
Wish they both were doing it at the same time, that would be fun for the customers
I switched from verizon to att when the iPhone came out, and I already knew att had awful service, but at the same time, verizon had already pushed me to my limit. I had a razr, which (as with all their phones) was hobbled by their own software that replaced motorola's. They broke the mp3 player, they broke bluetooth, and many other little things here and there all in an attempt to force me to pay thru the nose to use these otherwise free (from att and other carriers) features. $3 per song download (no other way to put music on the phone), no custom ring tones, $70 kit to allow file transfers, etc.
IIRC, Apple first approached verizon, and they wanted control over the iPhone OS. Ha.
Props to Apple for rejecting verizon. Truth be told, I'm surprised to have great coverage and service with att. When the iPhone comes to verizon, I'll wait and see how much I'll be paying for their service. I'm in no hurry to go back, and I'm sure by then att will sweeten the deal somehow to retain it's customers.
IIRC, Apple first approached verizon, and they wanted control over the iPhone OS. Ha.
Props to Apple for rejecting verizon. Truth be told, I'm surprised to have great coverage and service with att. When the iPhone comes to verizon, I'll wait and see how much I'll be paying for their service. I'm in no hurry to go back, and I'm sure by then att will sweeten the deal somehow to retain it's customers.
That inferior technology allows me to get service inside buidings. I'm in a hospital ER and my iPhone says "searching". One of the attendings came by in this exact location with a new Droid last week...surprise surprise, I checked and he could pull up Google.
I get the voice + data limitation, but I'd sacrifice that in favor of better buiding penetration. Frankly I don't see what's so inferior about CDMA when it's clearly more reliable at least in the northeast.
It's only inferior because he doesn't like it. Both technologies have thier pluses and minuses. All that matters is what the buyer needs. ATandT will get better with the 850MHz band but verizon's new stuff (LTE) will be 700MHz (even better building penetration than now at 850MHz). At that point though, it will come down to build-out, cell towers and such.
I agree
I agree, I live in Downers and I have at least 4-5 dropped calls a day and it's even worse when I go west of Aurora..................It sucks!
I agree, I live in Downers and I have at least 4-5 dropped calls a day and it's even worse when I go west of Aurora..................It sucks!
AT&T is getting on my nerves. Just admit you failed at implementing your 3G coverage. And Verizon, shut up until you can actually have voice and data at the same time.
Best comment ever. thank you.
Best comment ever. thank you.
There is a world outside of America, ya'know.
Fact is facts, the iPhone is the best Smartphone on the market.
The interface is fine, the people who use it for what it was made for do not give a damn if it 'looks' old, they want a device which is well supported and works.
Obviously you think 10 year old kids are more important than the people who run the world.
as much as it hurt i just left ATT as well and the iPhone because "not dropping" calls is most important to me and the iPhone i had just was a great device but one of the worst phones i have ever used and whether it is ATT or the iPhone is debatable i guess but what is not debatable is the fact that i switched 3 weeks ago back to Verizon and have not dropped a call yet YEAH!!!
i consistently dropped or got the tone of death where it just wouldn't make the call about 20% of the time on the iPhone and i had the 2G, 3G, and 3GS on launch date and none of them were any better than the last.
love the iPhone but needed a dependable phone and had to switch
iPhone = great device but bad phone
i hope to come back some day when they fix it
i consistently dropped or got the tone of death where it just wouldn't make the call about 20% of the time on the iPhone and i had the 2G, 3G, and 3GS on launch date and none of them were any better than the last.
love the iPhone but needed a dependable phone and had to switch
iPhone = great device but bad phone
i hope to come back some day when they fix it
Building penetration is more a function of the frequency that your carrier is using (850mhz vs 1900mhz) than it is the technology (CDMA vs UMTS). Only two carriers in a market can use 850mhz -- all of the other carriers have to use 1900mhz. Verizon's been around long enough to either have had original dibs on one of the 850mhz blocks, or has acquired a company that had dibs, and it's 850mhz that has the easier time with building penetration.
FWIW, AT&T did a fairly huge (6 billion?) purchase of 700mhz frequency as well.