Um, "Don't like it, don't buy it" is exactly what fundamental free-market principles are all about.
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'The Truth Hurts': Verizon Zings AT&T in Advertising Spat
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Um, "Don't like it, don't buy it" is exactly what fundamental free-market principles are all about.
I hope Verizon crushes AT&T in court - their commercial was perfectly legit, and AT&T is just upset over being exposed for their lack of investment.
The post above illustrates my point precisely. Competition is what the free market is about. The "don't like it, don't buy it" is the refrain used to defend the anticompetitive practices that define the US cellular industry.
Thanks TM. I got nothing against corporations. I just get pissed off at uncompetitive behavior such as this one, which antitrust lawyers call "tying".
Choice means more than take it or leave it. Choice means choose the BEST carrier for you, that works with the BEST phone for you. Only regulatory agencies, be they the FCC, the FTC, or the DOJ can break up these unholy deals. (In selecting a desperate, mediocre carrier for this deal, Apple is not without blame either, by the way.)
Competition is "don't like it, don't buy it." The consumers decide what they will tolerate and what they won't by voting with their dollars.
I would love to know your solution for the "wireless carriers suck" (which they do) dilemma we're all in right now. A new government department I imagine?
Competition is "don't like it, don't buy it." The consumers decide what they will tolerate and what they won't by voting with their dollars.
I would love to know your solution for the "wireless carriers suck" (which they do) dilemma we're all in right now. A new government department I imagine?
Another typical refrain! I'll bet you're going to accuse me of being a socialist next!
Why do you think wireless carriers suck? They don't respond to "don't like it, don't buy it." Why not? Because they don't have to. They can survive by providing crap service and phones tied to outrageous contracts.
We have all the regulatory agencies we need. They just didn't do anything for most of a decade. That seemed to work out well, didn't it? A DOJ/FTC doing its job would eliminate the illegal tying arrangements that have become the de facto standard (which does not make it legal), and let these companies truly compete. That's in your best interest, yet you (and not just you, but most others on this board) seem terrified of it. Why?
I honestly am not trying to be hostile, I just don't understand how people think that they have a leg to stand on with that argument. Seriously, Apple could have not even have made the iPhone...or could decide to discontinue it tomorrow. Then where would you have been/be? They have no "responsibility" to anyone: they are not a government that is accountable to a populace. All they have to do is make sure that the terms of the agreement of sale are satisfied when you pay money. If they don't (i.e. DOA equipment), then yes, they are responsible. Short of that, they can make and sell things as they please: they invent these devices and sell them. No one has a "right" to have them. Also, my analogy with the fuel still holds: I never said anything about service stations. Even if you include them, you still can chose what car (or phone) you like, but sometimes you cant chose which fuel (or service) it runs on. If you want to add "service availability" into it, consider that a lot of fuel stations don't have diesel available at them...just like AT&T coverage might not be everywhere.
You technically can do whatever you want. You can open the iPhone, modify it electronically if you have the know-how, and get it to work on other networks. It is possible. No one is going to throw you in jail if you do so.
Do I think it is ridiculous that you can only use this on AT&T? Absolutely. Is there anything I can do about it...and should there be anything I can do about it? No. I can understand that you and others are upset about it, but arguing that it is "unfair" is not the same as "that stinks." Unfortunate and unfair are vastly different....and I do believe that not being able to use your service is unfortunate...but not unfair.
Competition is "don't like it, don't buy it." The consumers decide what they will tolerate and what they won't by voting with their dollars.
I would love to know your solution for the "wireless carriers suck" (which they do) dilemma we're all in right now. A new government department I imagine?
Competition in economic terms means consumers are given a CHOICE of services, and market powers determine the winner. Which gives the players a reason to compete. When players are secure in knowing that whether they suck or not, their business will not be lost, that's not competition. That's monopoly. And that's not a free market.
And no, you DON'T need a new government department... You just need the existing agencies charged with regulation (the aforementioned FCC, FTC, or DOJ) to get off their duffs and do their job.
When the market is fair, carriers won't suck (so much
) -- because their consumers will be empowered to punish them for sucking. That's the way our economic system is supposed to work.Of course Apple has a responsibility to "someone." In fact, it's the sole purpose for its existence: to generate profit for its shareholders, to whom it is absolutely 100% accountable.
AT&T doesn't have to do AT&T's job when advertising
But the Verizon ad only dealt with AT&T's 3G network. It is AT&T's place to show what they want. AT&T includes their Edge network because they know that Verizon is correct with their AT&T 3G network's limited coverage.
If Verizon would have been smart & courted Apple to get the iPhone then AT&T could be doing something similar to show Verizon weaknesses.
It the Droid works well maybe we can have some competition. This will let us see how good of a network Verizon actually has. On paper it looks good & better than AT&T. Let's get some equal data flow & see what happens in the real world.
But the Verizon ad only dealt with AT&T's 3G network. It is AT&T's place to show what they want. AT&T includes their Edge network because they know that Verizon is correct with their AT&T 3G network's limited coverage.
If Verizon would have been smart & courted Apple to get the iPhone then AT&T could be doing something similar to show Verizon weaknesses.
It the Droid works well maybe we can have some competition. This will let us see how good of a network Verizon actually has. On paper it looks good & better than AT&T. Let's get some equal data flow & see what happens in the real world.
hard to argue against that. eat it at&t. and common, apple, end the exclusivity deal already!!!
The problem is that an advertiser is responsible for all reasonable takeaways from its advertisements. So, if it is unclear or ambiguous that Verizon was referring only to the 3G network, then arguably it has a problem. However, in my opinion, to think it was a map of all coverage is not a reasonable takeaway. AT&T likely is trying to decide whether to do a consumer survey, if it hasn't already, although those are often highly unreliable.
I don't have any complaints about AT&T's service in my area, but this whole debacle is really making them look like a bunch of whiners. They could slam Verizon right back on any number of topics. There are enough reports out there in the public realm to justify AT&T slamming Verizon on their horrible customer service but they chose to litigate which is weak.
Now I'm hoping the rumors about Apple switching to Verizon is true. I'm starting to think they would be a better partner for Apple solely because they're willing to put up a fight.
Now I'm hoping the rumors about Apple switching to Verizon is true. I'm starting to think they would be a better partner for Apple solely because they're willing to put up a fight.
I see this thread and the people defending ATT and Apple
.and think of this quote..
"in some parts of america I honestly think that people have begun to mate with vegetables.."
Jeremy Clarkson BBC TV 2007
Apple forever trumpet the 'completeness' of the user experience with their products. Remember SJ at the launcxh of the iPhone saying the killer app was the phone?
laugh??
Apple went with ATT despite the consumer, they went for the $$$$ as ATT paid the most. Same with O2 in the UK..
I wish some of you Apple apologists could see through iCon for what it actually is.
If it wasn't funny it'd be tragic...
.and think of this quote..
"in some parts of america I honestly think that people have begun to mate with vegetables.."
Jeremy Clarkson BBC TV 2007
Apple forever trumpet the 'completeness' of the user experience with their products. Remember SJ at the launcxh of the iPhone saying the killer app was the phone?
laugh??
Apple went with ATT despite the consumer, they went for the $$$$ as ATT paid the most. Same with O2 in the UK..
I wish some of you Apple apologists could see through iCon for what it actually is.
If it wasn't funny it'd be tragic...
Dear LP,
I totally agree that Apple didn't have to make the iPhone. That's not my argument. I'm not some namby-pamby lib'rul crying that I should have what I want and if I can't SOMEONE should do something about it. I'm only saying that the way this model is set up -- with "exclusive, subsidized" contracts for a given phone is simply anticompetitive.
I don't want a subsidized phone tied to a devil's bargain (which is actually no bargain at all, once you do the math). I simply want competition in carriers, just as handset makers compete. That's all. There is no technical reason why (at least some of the carriers) could not compete for the business of people who own cell phones. The only reason they do not compete is because of these deals that are designed to LOCK OUT competition.
Absolutely. That's why I said Apple shares the blame. They undoubtedly were in the driver's seat with a weakened, insecure carrier, and extracted the best deal they could get -- their customers be damned.
Their tendency toward obsessive control -- which is so good for creating beautiful, powerful products -- is a little less good in their market (and after-market) practices.
But at least they create products that are beautiful and practical and inspiring -- which is why so many people are fanatics. The carriers, not so much...
Seems to me that Verizon got it right with the ad. Verizon 3G coverage versus AT&T 3G coverage. Big words right on your face. How much more clearer does AT&T want it to be? Verizon basically body slammed AT&T with 3G coverage. It's the truth, right there, front and center.
Verizon is just jealous of the iPhone!
I went to a Verizon Store this past weekend and tried the DROID... What a piece of crap!!! Seriously...it was very very hard to get around on it and the slider keyboard sucks ass... The iPhone is so much better then that Droid, its no contest... All this crap that is going on with ATT and Verizon is just jealousy on Verizon's part because ATT is catching up with them in total customers across the board... Verizon's colors suits them well... RED, because of all the bleeding from people switching to ATT for the iPhone... Verizon you can take your crappy APP Store and V-Cast and phone crippling and shove it... Oh, and one more thing... I do not know of one single Verizon phone that doesnt have their crappy logo on it...
I went to a Verizon Store this past weekend and tried the DROID... What a piece of crap!!! Seriously...it was very very hard to get around on it and the slider keyboard sucks ass... The iPhone is so much better then that Droid, its no contest... All this crap that is going on with ATT and Verizon is just jealousy on Verizon's part because ATT is catching up with them in total customers across the board... Verizon's colors suits them well... RED, because of all the bleeding from people switching to ATT for the iPhone... Verizon you can take your crappy APP Store and V-Cast and phone crippling and shove it... Oh, and one more thing... I do not know of one single Verizon phone that doesnt have their crappy logo on it...
The 3G coverage maps in Verizon's ads may or may not have been secretly meant to mislead viewers, but in any case they are technically accurate as labelled. Therefore, any confusion is the fault of the inattentive (or illiterate) viewer. AT&T may have an "emotional" complaint here, but I just don't think they really have much of a "legal" complaint. The courts can't legislate people's attentiveness! (Nor should they.)
The Truth.
I live in New Jersey, and the best carriers are as follows:
But AT&T sucks for not upgrading their networks. Trust me, I've used AT&T as well and they are downright terrible. Dropped calls, ****** service, you name it. That's the only reason I (and most people) refused to switch to the iPhone.
Only recently has Verizon begun to offer better phones. If we were talking about Verizon phones last year, the best phone I could offer up would have been the Omnia. Meh.
AT&T, improve your ****** service instead of bitching about being sued. Verizon, stop your controlling and cry-baby tactics.
Enough said.
I live in New Jersey, and the best carriers are as follows:
- Verizon
- AT&T
- Sprint
- T-Mobile
But AT&T sucks for not upgrading their networks. Trust me, I've used AT&T as well and they are downright terrible. Dropped calls, ****** service, you name it. That's the only reason I (and most people) refused to switch to the iPhone.
Only recently has Verizon begun to offer better phones. If we were talking about Verizon phones last year, the best phone I could offer up would have been the Omnia. Meh.
AT&T, improve your ****** service instead of bitching about being sued. Verizon, stop your controlling and cry-baby tactics.
Enough said.
As long as we have Arabs and Jews fighting over land in the middle east, the madness never ends.