Do you/does anyone have an idea as to what the maximum workable/usable cable length is between ProDisplay and MacPro (or MacBook Pro)? I have a desk set up that needs something longer than the stock 2m cable, probably closer to 3-3.5m.
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The ultimate Pro Display XDR info thread
- Thread starter adamwathan
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Do you/does anyone have an idea as to what the maximum workable/usable cable length is between ProDisplay and MacPro (or MacBook Pro)? I have a desk set up that needs something longer than the stock 2m cable, probably closer to 3-3.5m.
Any Thunderbolt 3 cable supporting 40 Gbps should work. I don't recall such cables being longer than 2m though. One day, we may get optical Thunderbolt 3 cables.
It might be possible for a 20 Gbps cable to work if your GPU supports Display Stream Compression (DSC) but I haven't seen anyone try that. Maybe an optical Thunderbolt 2 cable could work in this case, with a couple Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapters.
In either case, you should be able to chain Thunderbolt 3 devices to extend the distance between the display and the computer. For example, a dock can be first in the chain, then the display. I haven't seen anyone try this either. The bandwidth to the dock (e.g. for disk writes) will be reduced greatly if your GPU does not support DSC.
Thanks - very helpful. Sounds like Plan B....get the electric drill and punch a hole somewhere. Was hoping to avoid that option!
Sonnet and Corning are apparently working on long Thunderbolt 3 optical cables. Won't be cheap though.
Hi everyone, been following a lot of your contributions on here about the XDR Displays, and wonder if you might be able to help me out.
I need to drive 3 XDR displays together at full 6K resolutionm and would like to know what available graphic card(s) to put in an order for a 2019 Mac Pro.
Apple Mac Pro online sales page says the AMD Radeon Pro Vega II Duo @ €6240 is needed - from what I can tell this has 4 thunderbolt ports - yet there is a pile of confusing information on the Apple support pages about using separate buses on the Vega Card to get 6k. (ie port use port 1 and port 3 only, not port 1 and 2 or 3 and 4). To me that suggests only 2 ports can do 6K on the card.
So I can't tell if I need Two Radeon Pro Vega IIs @ €6240 (Does this give you 8 ports?) or do I need a AMD Radeon Pro Vega II Duo @ €6240 (Does this give you 4 ports or 8 ports)
Appreciate your advice.
I need to drive 3 XDR displays together at full 6K resolutionm and would like to know what available graphic card(s) to put in an order for a 2019 Mac Pro.
Apple Mac Pro online sales page says the AMD Radeon Pro Vega II Duo @ €6240 is needed - from what I can tell this has 4 thunderbolt ports - yet there is a pile of confusing information on the Apple support pages about using separate buses on the Vega Card to get 6k. (ie port use port 1 and port 3 only, not port 1 and 2 or 3 and 4). To me that suggests only 2 ports can do 6K on the card.
So I can't tell if I need Two Radeon Pro Vega IIs @ €6240 (Does this give you 8 ports?) or do I need a AMD Radeon Pro Vega II Duo @ €6240 (Does this give you 4 ports or 8 ports)
Appreciate your advice.
I believe that you will need either two Vega II's or you can wait for the new 5700, which uses DSC and can drive three XDR's.
With a GPU that does not support Display Stream Compression (DSC), like the Vega II or the Vega II Duo, each XDR display will need to be connected to a separate Thunderbolt controller (which each have two DisplayPort inputs from the GPU).
The Vega II and Vega II Duo both have two Thunderbolt controllers, so you can connect two displays to them directly.
The Mac Pro has two other Thunderbolt controllers (one on the I/O card, and the other on the top of the Mac Pro.
The Vega II has two DisplayPort outputs from the GPU through the MPX slot to those Mac Pro Thunderbolt controllers, so one of them should support an XDR display, however the Mac Pro tech specs say the Vega II can only support two XDR displays (this might be the case if it can't handle that many pixels even though it has enough DisplayPort outputs).
Mac Pro - Technical Specifications
See all the technical specifications for Mac Pro with the M2 Ultra chip.
www.apple.com
Mac Pro (2019) - Technical Specifications - Apple Support
Use the Radeon Pro Vega II MPX Module with your Mac Pro (2019) - Apple Support (CA)
Learn about the many different display setups you can use with your MPX Module on your Mac Pro (2019).
The Vega II Duo has four DisplayPort outputs from the GPU through the MPX slot to those Mac Pro Thunderbolt controllers so you should be able to connect an XDR display to each of those controllers, for four total according to the Mac Pro tech specs but the Apple Support document says you can only connect two XDR displays to a single Vega II Duo. This doesn't make sense. I think we need an AGDCDiagnose from a Vega II Duo to see what GPUs are connected to what ports. What might cause a problem is if all 6 ports of a single GPU get used instead of 4 ports from each. If that is a problem, then maybe you could connect two XDR displays, then two small displays to the top ports, then connect the third XDR display after that, then you can disconnect the two small displays. I don't see how Apple could screw this up unless they want to make you buy more than one Vega II Duo.
So you can try one Vega II or one Vega II Duo, but you might need two of one of them, or one of each.
A single AMD Radeon Pro W5700X can support 3 XDR displays but it's not available yet. You could try a normal Radeon 5700 XT with three Huawei VR 2 Computer Connection Cables and a USB 2.0 hub. The cable supports only DisplayPort 1.2 but that should be sufficient because with DSC, 6K only requires HBR2 link rate (no-one has tried this yet). The USB 2.0 connection is for the USB features of the display (brightness control, USB ports, presets?, etc). The only thing missing from a Thunderbolt connection would be USB 3.0 connection to the XDR display's USB hub (you would at least get USB 2.0, similar to the Vega II or Vega II Duo). You could try going without USB 2.0 if you can live without the USB features of the display and just use a bidirectional USB-C to DisplayPort cable such as the one sold by Moshi (supports HBR3, is VESA certified).
Ok thank you for that. So its not just me seeing this conflicting information. I don't feel so alone now!
It's a s clear as mud on the Apple website, and I haven't seen anyone else point this out yet.
Apple Business Sales and Solutions Engineers cant recommend or confirm which graphics card options I should select to drive 3 xdrs at 6k, in addition they tell me that no dates have been provided publicly or privately from supply chain for the 5700 Pro, so its currently not even on their horizon right now.
Am I right in thinking that:
(A) 2 no. Radeon Pro Vega IIs @ €6240 is the only sure way to drive 3 XDRs? - even though there is no support information confirming this is the case?
(B) 1 no. Radeon Pro Vega II Duo @ €6240, says it can run 4 x XDRs, but you may need to use the TB ports on top of the tower?
If anyone can kindly confirm how many TB ports are on the Radeon Pro Vega II Duo?
A: True €6240.
B: False according to the linked support document. In other words, you might need two Radeon Pro Vega II Duo €12480.
Another possibility is using one of each. It's more expensive than A, less expensive than B. But you get to test each option solo to see if either GPU by itself can support 3, contrary to Apple's support documents, answering the questions below (using AGDCDiagnose output to show which ports of which GPUs get used).
Or save €5000, try a Radeon 5700 XT and some Huawei VR 2 Computer Connection Cables. It might work. Unless you want the Vega IIs for some purpose other than connecting XDR displays.
The Vega II and Vega II Duo have the same set of ports (two Thunderbolt 3 controllers, four Thunderbolt 3 ports, one HDMI port). The Vega II and Vega II Duo have four DisplayPort outputs to their Thunderbolt controllers. The questions are:
1) For the Vega II, how is the HDMI port connected? The GPU only has 6 DisplayPort outputs. The HDMI is a seventh connection, so there must be a switch on one of the 6 DisplayPort outputs.
2) For the Vega II Duo, there are a possible 12 DisplayPort outputs, but there's only 4 Thunderbolt controllers that can be connected, so only 8 DisplayPorts are used. How are they divided between the two GPUs?
3) For the Vega II Duo, is the HDMI port a ninth connection? Or is it wired with a switch like the Vega II?
Only two XDRs can be connected to one Vega II or Vega II Pro directly. Two more XDRs can be connected to a second Vega II or Vega II Pro. There's no question about those two options.
There are some questions that need answering when using only a single Vega II or Vega II Pro:
4) For Vega II, can a single XDR be connected to the I/O card ports or the top ports? The support document doesn't mention this possibility. I believe it should be possible because:
- It's only one display.
- The GPU has two display port outputs to those other two Thunderbolt controllers.
- The Radeon Pro 580X can connect two XDR displays, one display to each pair of those ports.
5) For Vega II, can three XDR Displays be connected? I believe it could be possible because:
- The Vega II has six DisplayPort outputs that can connect to three Thunderbolt controllers.
I believe it is probably not possible because:
- The Vega II might have a bandwidth limitation where it can't drive more than two XDR Displays even though it has 6 DisplayPort outputs.
6) For the Vega II Duo, can four XDR Displays be connected? The support document says only two can be connected. I believe it could be possible because:
- There are two GPUs - four DisplayPorts from each can be connected.
- Each GPU can drive two XDRs - see #4 above.
- The Mac Pro tech specs contradict the support document.
It might not be possible because:
- Apple might have wired the 8 DisplayPorts in a stupid way such that 6 DisplayPorts from one GPU are used and only 2 DisplayPorts from the other GPU.
Is there any info available about the fixed brightness values of the reference modes? I'm especially interested in the Photography (P3-D65) mode.
Is the MBP 16" maxed out GPU 5500M 8GB enough for this 6K resolution? I mean choppy animations, lags etc?
I have the 16" MBP with 2.4 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9, 64 GB, and MD Radeon Pro 5500M 8 GB. It runs the display without any issue. I haven't tried to do any video editing or 3D work, but it works great for video playback, Lightroom, and Photoshop.
I have almost the same config, with the same gpu, and I tried to upscale my LG 5K to this 6K resolution with 3rd party app, and when I open my application folder from the dock (it's in Grid view) I can see a little lag when it opens. Not a big issue, but I open this a hundred times every day. Have you got this thing too? Thanks
Since the LG isn't 6K natively, that's most likely the issue. The Apple Pro Display has no lag from my experience.
Do you notice any stuttering/lag while playing movies from Disney+ (web) or the TV app? I have XDR nano connected to a maxed-out MBP 16 and videos from Disney+ and TV App stutter like they only play 20fps. If I play directly on MBP display it works fine.
I don't notice any stuttering with the Pro Display. My MBP is open, I used to use it with two LG 5K monitors and it was always closed. I noticed some lag from time to time, not sure if it was because of the two 5K monitors or maybe overheating because it was closed.
Any Mac that has a mode "looks like 3008x1692" or larger is drawing 6K (6016x3384) or larger. For example, my MacMini8,1 has a "Looks like 3360x1890" option for a 4K display. That's actually 6720x3780. I can remove the 6720 limit and get 8191x8090 which "looks like 4096x4095". That's just with Intel graphics. AMD graphics can do larger scaled modes 8192x8192. Actually, for a dual link SST display like the LG UltraFine 5K (maybe the XDR display), it can do scaled modes 16384x8192 (looks like 8192x4096).
So I just tested again and looks like it only lags when I use P3-1600 nits profile. It works fine with P3-500 nits.
I tested this. It's not just a yes/no, let me give you the full details.
I have a 2019 MBP 16" i9 2.3GHz. I tested the computer in a state as idle as I could make it (just one Terminal window running the script to display fan speed and no other apps running). I did it under 3 scenarios:
- just the built-in display;
- just an external LG 5K in clamshell mode;
- LG 5K and Pro Display XDR 6K in clamshell mode.
In all of the scenarios above, I could see the fan go down to a little over 1800 RPM and stay there indefinitely. That's basically as low as it will go, and it's essentially silent.
So that's my objective measurement. Now, on to some subjective observations (which are just as important, perhaps more so).
First of all, I briefly tested with the 2019 MBP i7 2.6GHz, and although I did not measure RPMs, I had the distinct impression that the fan noise was a little more noticeable on that machine than with the i9 2.3GHz. I guess the extra 300 MHz requires a little more cooling... 🤷♂️
Second, I also get the impression that the 6K monitor (and even the 5K to some extent) makes the fan run louder more often when I'm actually using my MBP, as opposed to my testing scenario of leaving the machine completely idle throughout the testing period. In other words, the 5K and 6K monitors on their own don't make the fans louder, but they put the machine "on the edge" where it will need to run the fans louder more often.
I hope the above helps.
--Diego.
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I have that configuration and the macOS animations look smooth (5K + 6K connected simultaneously in clamshell mode). Of course, in a situation where the CPU and/or GPU are being taxed, even the built-in panel used by itself will show choppy animations.
--Diego.
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Hello, I have a question about a topic that I haven't seen discussed here or elsewhere. I got my Pro Display XDR yesterday. Today I wanted to test the orientation sensor, so I turned it 90 degrees clockwise. The macOS user interface did switch to portrait mode, but to my surprise, it went portrait upside down. Then I returned the display to landscape and the user interface went back to normal. Then I turned it 90 degrees counter-clockwise, and it finally switched to portrait right side up.
Is this normal? Have you performed this test? Please let me know.
FYI - I have a 3rd party mounting arm instead of the Apple stand, so I have the freedom to rotate the display in either direction, clockwise or counter-clockwise. I don't know if the Apple stand allows rotating in both directions.
--Diego.
Is this normal? Have you performed this test? Please let me know.
FYI - I have a 3rd party mounting arm instead of the Apple stand, so I have the freedom to rotate the display in either direction, clockwise or counter-clockwise. I don't know if the Apple stand allows rotating in both directions.
--Diego.
Nope. In order to support that, both hardware and software need to support hardware calibration. Apple never had such calibration software for their own monitors so I doubt that. You should get something else like Eizo.
Hardware calibration AND/OR profiling is touted as coming soon. See: https://www.apple.com/mt/pro-display-xdr/specs/
The components that get hot with complex rendering are the GPU and CPU in your computer. The Pro Display XDR generates heat depending on the brightness of its FALD LEDs. In other words, the brighter the image, the more heat it generates.
I've only had my display for a day, and the few times I checked it was essentially at room temperature, cooler than my MBP's lid (which is always closed and usually very slightly warm). I guess the cheese grater pattern does a good job of cooling the display, in addition to being handy in the kitchen. 🧀
--Diego
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FYI - I have my Pro Display XDR connected to my 2019 MBP 16", and I get DSC status: Enabled. Just in case someone is wondering.