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The Ultimate rMBP Image Retention Test
- Thread starter kpdillon
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Shouldn't Apple be made to pay for the hassle of us having to return computers because of a quality control issue like this? Like $500 gift certificates coming with each LG display or something like this? I'm sure they're aware of the quality difference of the two panels, just as they are with the Macbook Airs (they assure that only Samsung displays are put on displays in the stores with the Air).
Just saw the support tips today. Sad
Avoiding image persistence on Apple displays
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5455
Avoiding image persistence on Apple displays
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5455
I have been using IPS displays by preference for some years now, and I have never, ever, seen an IPS display that doesn't have this kind of mild persistence. I looked it up in some worry because my expensive NEC monitor had "burn-in", found out it was normal, and stopped worrying about it. My NEC does it. My iPad 3 does it. If I could stand the glossy display and get one, my RMBP would do it. I don't really care that much; the color reproduction is easily worth it for me.
Is it so hard to do a search?
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1070548/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1232569/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1122998/
It's a common problem for IPS screens. I take it you haven't worked with them a lot...
I haven't worked with the Thunderbolt Display, but I can at least testify that the Cinema Display 27" (the one with IPS) DOES exhibit image persistence after being "forced" to do so.
With all that said, I KNOW what "image persistence" would look like... and I'm not seeing it on my rMBP... yet.
I had the problem on my first machine. I got a replacement, which didn't have the problem at first, but it is getting steadily worse.
I wouldn't be as concerned if it were a steady-state issue—IOW, if it *always* had been a problem, and if the problem were always of the same severity level. But the problem is growing worse. And that new Apple KB essentially blaming the problem on user error is total baloney.
I wouldn't be as concerned if it were a steady-state issue—IOW, if it *always* had been a problem, and if the problem were always of the same severity level. But the problem is growing worse. And that new Apple KB essentially blaming the problem on user error is total baloney.
It is sad to see such claims from Apple.
However, it doesn't explain why Samsung panels barely have IR issue
As I posted earlier in the thread the Samsung screens are PLS rather than IPS .PLS is a new technology created by Samsung.
My LG is fine just because your lg developed it doesn't mean mine will, almost 2 month now, running in a very hot room, I will get the apple care extension for the peace of mind, i am not saying there is not a problem, but there are lots of happy lg users out there too. people on the net like to amplify there issues, very similar to the Fuji x100 SAb story.....
crossed fingers
My 2.6/16/256 should arrive tomorrow.. holding my breath and will report my findings.
A note with mine is that I have the OWC Aura Pro (http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Retina_2012) SSD upgrade.. which I guess I'll be leaving on the shelf for awhile to see if I have the retention problem.
I'm guessing that doing this upgrade would complicate my replacement scenario. I do have applecare.
Anyway, my thanks to everyone who's spent so much time and effort detailing this manufacturing flaw.
My 2.6/16/256 should arrive tomorrow.. holding my breath and will report my findings.
A note with mine is that I have the OWC Aura Pro (http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Retina_2012) SSD upgrade.. which I guess I'll be leaving on the shelf for awhile to see if I have the retention problem.
I'm guessing that doing this upgrade would complicate my replacement scenario. I do have applecare.
Anyway, my thanks to everyone who's spent so much time and effort detailing this manufacturing flaw.
I don't buy this. I work daily with a 27" iMac and a 27" Thunderbolt display, which neither have IR/ghosting under forced or normal conditions. To further my claim, there is a 24" iMac at work that I have tested for IR and have had no luck in reproducing it.
I definitely think this could be considered common in faulty IPS displays but not normal or expected behavior. I've been working daily with Apple IPS displays for the last 6 years and have never come across this until getting the rMBP.
As it turns out, there are multiple variants of PLS and IPS technology:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD
So, just saying that Samsung screens are better because they're PLS may not be accurate. (I'm no display guru, so I'm extrapolating here...)
Likewise, here's a blurb which says that the the newest Macbook screens might be AH-IPS, which supposedly offers improved image quality. Scroll down to post 9 in this:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2266637
In the case of the LG screens, I don't know, but they may be this AH-IPS:
http://tech2.in.com/news/tablets/lg-announces-super-high-resolution-ahips-displays/219942
So I'm still not clear on exactly which technology variant the LG or Samsung screens are. Just saying IPS or PLS doesn't look to be sufficient to know what type they are.
How can this be determined? Can the display part number be cross-referenced somehow to see what specific variant it is?
EDIT: OK, just a little more Googling provides at least some clarity here...
Through a dismantling of the new MacBook Pro with Retina display, ifixit have identified that the panel being used appears to be an LG.Display (aka LG.Phillips) LP154WT1 (SJ)(A1) GD panel. This AH-IPS panel offers a massive 2880 x 1440 resolution and is only 15.4" in size. Hopefully it is a sign of things to come in the desktop monitor market and maybe we will begin to see ultra-high resolution panels there as well in the future.
From
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news_archive/26.htm#macbook_retina_panel
So, the LG panel already is this AH-IPS variant.
So the LG panel is an IPS screen.
The Samsung is almost certainly a PLS screen. That is what Samsung uses on their highest end products and this screens resolution being new means it's unlikely Samsung ramped up a production line to produce screens with a different technology.
Samsung has already exhibited a 13" Series 9 that I believe Engadget has a post about which has a very similar Retina resolution and I believe it too is a PLS screen.
Apparently one of the improvements of PLS over IPS is an absence of image retention.
Well, there are people who have experienced said problems. What else can I tell you?
I have personally seen it on my iPad... and many Cinema Displays, plus my 24" iMac so I can at least confirm that if it's considered "faulty", then a LOT of Apple's products for the last 4-5 years are faulty. You might have gotten "lucky" in that case.
But the point is... I'm still not seeing it on my rMBP, which has an LG screen, so not all LG screens are bad.
I didn't realize there's a thread (or, more accurately, an unbelievably involved string of rock throwing contests, sheesh) about this over on the Apple discussion forums... https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4034848?start=3315&tstart=0 .
Makes no sense to repeat that, all 222 pages so far. I think the net over there is that the Samsung screens are better than the LGs, you can't predetermine which screen you're going to get, and Apple hasn't done anything yet to address this problem.
I was going to get a rMBP, but not until this issue is resolved. I'll take a look at the 13 inch model when that ever finally becomes available. But I can't imagine they wouldn't have the same issues, unless 100 percent of those screens are Samsung.
There has got to be some usage scenarios that make it better or worse.
In my case, I didn't notice it until recently and I had one of the first units to hit my local Apple store. It is the LG panel
I first noticed it when I clicked over to dashboard (which has the weather widget among other things) and I use it frequently. It was immediately visible as two considerably whiter rectangles on the gray background
The difference for me (i think) is that in the last couple of weeks due to work, I have been spending all day with both Word and Mail open and on screen all day long. In addition, I'm in a bright office (compared to my much more subdued house lighting).
I'm currently deciding if I can live with it or not.
The twin dilemmas I have is that the longer I wait, the more likely Apple will be to try and fix it vs replace it (bad luck with Apple repairs in the past) and if I do nothing it almost certainly affect resale value (I upgrade about every other refresh)
That all being said, in normal use I never notice it (except on the dashboard ) in the regular apps I use including illustrator and lightroom
In my case, I didn't notice it until recently and I had one of the first units to hit my local Apple store. It is the LG panel
I first noticed it when I clicked over to dashboard (which has the weather widget among other things) and I use it frequently. It was immediately visible as two considerably whiter rectangles on the gray background
The difference for me (i think) is that in the last couple of weeks due to work, I have been spending all day with both Word and Mail open and on screen all day long. In addition, I'm in a bright office (compared to my much more subdued house lighting).
I'm currently deciding if I can live with it or not.
The twin dilemmas I have is that the longer I wait, the more likely Apple will be to try and fix it vs replace it (bad luck with Apple repairs in the past) and if I do nothing it almost certainly affect resale value (I upgrade about every other refresh)
That all being said, in normal use I never notice it (except on the dashboard ) in the regular apps I use including illustrator and lightroom
I like to see some comparisons. Especially of the contrast, black level's, color,...
Hope, you will make a few photos.. 
After about 8th exchange Apple Store banned me from their store and Apple Customer relations didn't help either. They also didn't refund my education card which I returned unused with the computer. They told me instead that this kind of transactions is unusual and they don't owe me anything. If I'm not mistaken, they even forwarded the case to the fraud team?
I've taken it up with my bank after dealing with them for 2 weeks and couple hours on the phone for a simple damn thing.
Class action lawsuit for displays anyone?
I've taken it up with my bank after dealing with them for 2 weeks and couple hours on the phone for a simple damn thing.
Class action lawsuit for displays anyone?
Got Apple to replace my LG with IR and uneven coloration last night. The genius bar tech wasn't too helpful and gave me the same song and dance about it being "normal". Eventually he directed me to a manager who agreed with me that the IR is not acceptable. He gave me a new machine on the spot which turned out to have a Samsung display.
As expected, I'm seeing much better colors, increased brightness, and no IR. It's honestly a pretty drastic difference. No dead pixels, light bleed, or shadowing at this point either.
As expected, I'm seeing much better colors, increased brightness, and no IR. It's honestly a pretty drastic difference. No dead pixels, light bleed, or shadowing at this point either.
