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iPod touch There are no bad screens

shalstvedt said:
I'm not sure if I know what I'm talking about here, but I think both of the "parties" may be correct on this one.

Bob, I completely see your method, it makes sense, and it works. Bravo. And this fix I also believe could be implemented in a firmware update. I also have not seen a post in which someone returns their iPod for a better one. And the percentage of repeated duds seems inordinately large for a small segment of the manufactured units.

However, I think the root of the issue actually does lie in the reduced quality of the screen. If I'm correct, lower quality screens have a narrower range of contrast and actual color that can be correctly displayed. So, for the purposes of my argument, let's say the iPod touch has a lower quality screen than the iPhone does. It is also well-known by now that the touch shares an almost identical firmware with the iPhone (see the various posts about the string "iPhone" failing to be replaced on the touch). Doesn't that mean that the touch would also theoretically share the same video driver code?

Aah i guess I've been verbose enough, what I'm trying to say is I think the touch's screen problems stem from a lower quality screen/less contrast range, and apple failing to account for that in its firmware. Pleases all? :p
Click to expand...

Yes, I would say that says it quite well. But the point is, the iPod touch was never intended to be a reference monitor for broadcast-quality HD video. It was meant to be a cool way to see your video on a little tiny thing that fits in your shirt pocket with lots of room to spare.

Bravo to the people who understand what I am talking about and can see that if you can adjust the media to work, you can adjust the screen to properly display the media. That's all I am saying. It AIN'T rocket science.

The rest of the detractors, maybe sleep on it a bit and it will begin to make sense to you too. It really is what's happening.

I should add that while it would SEEM that there are a wide variety of iPod touch screen variations out there, I am willing to bet that if anyone of us were to look at 10 or 20 or 30 in front of us from all of these people who describe various extremes, they would all look the same. I am saying it's subjective with about a million variables in perception. That's all.

So, I am going to sleep. Got a huge meeting in the morning. Thanks to all of you who understand this and best of luck to those who don't.

Bob

:eek:
 
ok I think one thing we're missing is a concrete definition of whether variations do exist in the quality of the screen. does anyone have photographic or personal proof of two ipod touches (not a touch and an iphone) sitting next to each other and having differing display quality?
 
shalstvedt said:
Guys, the whole point is the correct display values are relative to the device. Your PC is doing gamma correction and whatnot to everything you're seeing here too, you just don't know it. the actual modification of the media that bob did was to simulate what would happen when they fix the firmware.
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*If the fix the firmware.

This supposed firmware would "adjust" the contrast levels of all the iPods. But since each iPod is displaying these contrast levels and negativity differently, it will not fix anything in a general sense.

Also, software doesn't explain why some iPods look like crap at all angles, some only look negative at an angle, and some look amazing at all angles. It's a hardware issue. Get. Over. It.

shalstvedt said:
ok I think one thing we're missing is a concrete definition of whether variations do exist in the quality of the screen. does anyone have photographic or personal proof of two ipod touches (not a touch and an iphone) sitting next to each other and having differing display quality?
Click to expand...

We've seen it before. If you haven't, look it up.
Since iPod touch's are shipped with the same software and video drivers, why would they display videos differently? It's a hardware issue.
 
I have been looking, the only comparisons I can find are between an iPhone and a touch. Maybe I'm just bad at looking heh but do you happen to have a link?
 
Dogenzaka said:
*If the fix the firmware.

This supposed firmware would "adjust" the contrast levels of all the iPods. But since each iPod is displaying these contrast levels and negativity differently, it will not fix anything in a general sense.

Also, software doesn't explain why some iPods look like crap at all angles, some only look negative at an angle, and some look amazing at all angles. It's a hardware issue. Get. Over. It.
Click to expand...

Hardware or software it can be fixed with software. And maybe apple could do a manual contrast setting if theres variation. Like, adjust until color on screen matches sides of ipod xp
 
i think its especially sad how a user can come on here with information they think is valid and may help the community only to get attacked and told how they don't know anything.

:cool::rolleyes:
 
The point is, everyone is still missing the point! :eek:

If you can simulate an image (in this case) to be displayed correctly on something then there is obviously nothing wrong with the hardware.

On the other hand, if you had to physically mess with the hardware (apply a anti-reflective coat, or w/e people think it's missing) and that fixes the problem, then it is a hardware issue.

Either way, we know the first works. If someone fixes the hardware on one, then it's a hardware problem. But at this stage it's still possible to be both, and in the end, Bob's solution is a fix until we see something happen from Apple.

If Apple can come up with an update so that the Touch views all images/movies with the -20% black (like we simulated in PS) then it will look good, correct? Well, I bet you that is what will happen.
 
--Wolf-- said:
The point is, everyone is still missing the point! :eek:

If you can simulate an image (in this case) to be displayed correctly on something then there is obviously nothing wrong with the hardware.

On the other hand, if you had to physically mess with the hardware (apply a anti-reflective coat, or w/e people think it's missing) and that fixes the problem, then it is a hardware issue.

Either way, we know the first works. If someone fixes the hardware on one, then it's a hardware problem. But at this stage it's still possible to be both, and in the end, Bob's solution is a fix until we see something happen from Apple.

If Apple can come up with an update so that the Touch views all images/movies with the -20% black (like we simulated in PS) then it will look good, correct? Well, I bet you that is what will happen.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it's going to be an ongoing argument until Apple releases a statement.

It's not Mac VS PC anymore, it's Software VS hardware

ha :p
 
--Wolf-- said:
The point is, everyone is still missing the point! :eek:

If you can simulate an image (in this case) to be displayed correctly on something then there is obviously nothing wrong with the hardware.
Click to expand...

No, it just means that there's a hardware problem that can (sometimes) be worked around in software. Provided the hardware is able to actually adjust contrast/gamma in software at all - it could very well be hardwired on the board.

I doubt they'll go to the trouble of actually modifying the displayed image in software. It takes enough processing power to decode h264 in the first place without trying to post-process it.
 
TonyHoyle said:
No, it just means that there's a hardware problem that can (sometimes) be worked around in software. Provided the hardware is able to actually adjust contrast/gamma in software at all - it could very well be hardwired on the board.

I doubt they'll go to the trouble of actually modifying the displayed image in software. It takes enough processing power to decode h264 in the first place without trying to post-process it.
Click to expand...

Sometimes? Have you even tried this? It's 100% works.

The easiest solution would be to simply adjust the contrast on the screen via a update, rather than changing the hardware.
 
I just tested my IPT on both my Alpine and my TV. I used the svideo jack on my docking station for the tv. The picture quality was better then my touch on both. Which tells me the IPT can't replace a high end display.

Lets face it, you can't get the same video as a 8800GT and a HD display for $399.00, if you did it would cost us $1000.00+
 
I picked up my UK touch yesterday and I have to say the screen issue does seem to be a problem. Also after viewing various images, videos and colour tests I'm not sure if its the screen itself or the hardware, one thing for sure is the gamma and contrast are causing big issues.

Not really sure what the huge outcry is about it though yes there is an issue, yes apple will fix it, if its the software via an update, if its the hardware through exchange. I am going to give mine 10 days to see what happens and if I am not satisfied with what they have done after that time, I will take it back to exchange with a good one or for a refund until they sort it.:eek:
 
I did a little work just to test the theories:

This is the Fountains of Wayne Video from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuBoAPFRlDA that someone mentioned from another thread. I remember reading that they said to look at the last 30 seconds or so to see if you have the negative blacks problem.

I encoded the video for the ipod here: http://www.the159.com/macrumors/fountains.mov

Then I applied these settings:
settings.jpg

and re-encoded the video here:http://www.the159.com/macrumors/fountains_fixed.mov

ipod_touch.jpg


Unfortunately I don't own an iPod Touch....so other people will have to validate this and tell me if I did the converting correctly
 
@The Gelding: could you look at the images/video posted in this thread previously and see if they fix the problem?
 
Sadly at work at the mo and dont have the touch on me, but for sure will do when i get home. Will be intresting to see the results for sure.....
 
The only way it can be perfect is to know the specifications of the display panel. The images provided are (it seems to me) a ballpark estimate of the correction necessary.
 
So the "fix" is to wash out the contrast and call it a day?

Sort of a bummer. Sounds like Apple, though.
 
This theory doesn't seem plausible. You're saying you have to reduce quality in order to see it correctly? Are people with touch's seeing the modified images how they are posted? If so, that degrades the quality and brings less attention to blacks. That's not a fix, but rather a step back.
 
Although I was skeptical at first, it does seem that screen calibration might be the issue. The built-in contrast setting is so high that it renders deep blacks even deeper than they should display - the 'washed out' image on my Macbook appears more or less accurate on my touch.

Interesting.

If it is a firmware fix, I'll be happy as a clam.
 
RyanG said:
This theory doesn't seem plausible. You're saying you have to reduce quality in order to see it correctly? Are people with touch's seeing the modified images how they are posted? If so, that degrades the quality and brings less attention to blacks. That's not a fix, but rather a step back.
Click to expand...

No, on the touch they appear normal, even though they're washed out on your PC. The device's display calibration must be way, way off.
 
gloss said:
No, on the touch they appear normal, even though they're washed out on your PC. The device's display calibration must be way, way off.
Click to expand...

This is interesting then. Can someone explain then why tilting the device would allow the non-negative effect?
 
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