Viewing an LCD from off axis simply changes the color and contrast ratios. If I look at my Macbook from about 55 degrees off of dead on, it also has negative blacks.
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iPod touch There are no bad screens
- Thread starter uburoibob
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Viewing an LCD from off axis simply changes the color and contrast ratios. If I look at my Macbook from about 55 degrees off of dead on, it also has negative blacks.
All Apple needs to do is release a firmware update which adds settings for Contrast and Gamma adjustment.
Please everyone request it so we will get it sooner rather than later.
Please everyone request it so we will get it sooner rather than later.
Are we sure this isn't an intentional design issue? When viewed head-on, I tend to get bad reflections off the glass. At a tilt, the reflections are greatly diminished - and the color looks best. Coincidence?
Also: Great if this is software - but I've seen so many screenshots that look so much worse than my own Touch, it's very convincing that there's some (great) variation among units.
Also: Great if this is software - but I've seen so many screenshots that look so much worse than my own Touch, it's very convincing that there's some (great) variation among units.
The reason the Macbook shifts color is simply because it's a TN panel. Narrow viewing angle. I don't think viewing off angle on LCD technology changes contrast ratios, but shifts them. Has anyone tried this fix on a movie yet?
That's what I meant. Perceived contrast levels shift as you view an LCD off-angle, so 'fixing' a bad contrast level is as hard as moving the LCD until you've matched the error level. Of course, then you have lousy color accuracy, which is what happens with the touch at the moment.
I find that the color is less vivid, although the blacks are cleaner. With bright material and during the day, it's not so distracting, but I just don't feel right having a $400 player whose worst viewing angle is dead on.
thats a really good point. Though I tent to agree w/ the original poster on this one, I would say that there has to be a reason they are allowing such easy returns
Thanks,
Arisian
While I wish to believe it, all the touch's have the same software and firmware. Why is it that some are proven to be good screens, while others are not? It doesn't make sense if you ask me. If it's all the same software, what makes Joe's software work while Jody's still seeing negatives?
I get the sense this is a typical no-information-flow Apple operation, wherein the Geniuses are kept out of the loop and are basically being nice & letting people do returns on their own initiative - not b/c there's some directive on high from Cupertino that "the Touch is defective."
I've heard first-hand that Apple people "on the ground" get little to no lead time with new products, the info security is so high. As a result, they might not know any more than the customers at/just after launch.
bob can u post like a step by step thing for the fix as the first post on a thread? thx, alota ppl will be happy now!
if apple would like to mapping the whole screen to a different way, which can accommodate both good and bad screens now in the market, thats fine with me. but they better do it quick.
maybe its embarrassing to release a patch before the product even officially hits the market, but I don't care, I will definitely return it in 2 weeks. if no measure were to be taken in that period.
maybe its embarrassing to release a patch before the product even officially hits the market, but I don't care, I will definitely return it in 2 weeks. if no measure were to be taken in that period.
Big Problem With Software Theory
Here's the big problem with the OP's theory that it's all just software:
Many professional reviews have access to multiple Touches, and see problems or variations among the units. Macworld/Playlist's review is one example.
Given that this is the same person doing a side-by-side, it eliminates the "oh, all units are the same, just subjective perception" argument. That it's a professional reviewer lends a little more credibility (via experience) than "just some guy on a forum."
If it's software, it should be a consistent issue across all units. People have already reported both 100A and 101A units as bad, so it's no variation there.
I like that the OP has found a partial solution - but that doesn't mean it's not a hardware flaw. Indeed, he may simply be correcting video/pics to "look better" through a flawed screen/anti-reflective/whatever.
If so, there's no easy software patch from Apple forthcoming - if only b/c hardware problems will vary in intensity, and what's a fix for some might not be enough for others (or worse, vice versa).
I noticed the tremendous collective sigh of relief in this thread over it "being a software issue." Hate to rain on that parade, but don't relax yet.
Here's the big problem with the OP's theory that it's all just software:
Many professional reviews have access to multiple Touches, and see problems or variations among the units. Macworld/Playlist's review is one example.
Given that this is the same person doing a side-by-side, it eliminates the "oh, all units are the same, just subjective perception" argument. That it's a professional reviewer lends a little more credibility (via experience) than "just some guy on a forum."
If it's software, it should be a consistent issue across all units. People have already reported both 100A and 101A units as bad, so it's no variation there.
I like that the OP has found a partial solution - but that doesn't mean it's not a hardware flaw. Indeed, he may simply be correcting video/pics to "look better" through a flawed screen/anti-reflective/whatever.
If so, there's no easy software patch from Apple forthcoming - if only b/c hardware problems will vary in intensity, and what's a fix for some might not be enough for others (or worse, vice versa).
I noticed the tremendous collective sigh of relief in this thread over it "being a software issue." Hate to rain on that parade, but don't relax yet.
It may not be possible.. a lot of the mapping is done in hardware. It's not like a PC where you can have a driver that can tell the hardware to preprocess the image in realtime.. the hardware in the average nvidia card is more powerful by itself than the itouch. Think back to before PC display cards were computers in their own right.. you didn't have brightness/contrast controls in the driver, you went to the monitor directly and adjusted it there.
On an itouch pretty much all you're doing by adjusting brightness is changing the backlight, so there's no real display adjustment going on. A software solution is possibly *only* if they've not hardwired the various parameters that the LCD display is using onto the board itself - and there would normally be no reason that they should. We'll find out if they have a software fix or not soon enough.
On an itouch pretty much all you're doing by adjusting brightness is changing the backlight, so there's no real display adjustment going on. A software solution is possibly *only* if they've not hardwired the various parameters that the LCD display is using onto the board itself - and there would normally be no reason that they should. We'll find out if they have a software fix or not soon enough.
This is going to sound like a stupid question but let's assume for a moment that this IS a hardware problem and that a certain percentage of the initial batch of iPod Touch units was bad. Why is this causing so much panic in forums, well, forums such as this?
Now let me be clear here, I know the pain of getting faulty apple kit. I just had to take a 3G Nano back for a tilted screen (which resulted in the purchase of a 16Gb Touch), I went through 5 Macbook Pro's before arriving at one I was happy with (ah launch models, how we love you) and the Macbook I'm writing this on has had to have the topcase replaced (£$£!!! design faults). None of these should ever be considered good things or acceptable in terms of the quality of the product.
HOWEVER, every single problem I've ever experienced with an Apple product has been handled swiftly and with some of the best customer service I've ever received by my local Apple store. Surely if you get a duff Touch you simply stick it back in the box, either call Apple or take it back to the store you bought it at and ask for a refund / replacement? From reading the comments here and elsewhere you'd think that Apple were refusing replacement or claiming there was no fault on these units.
Or am I missing something?
Now let me be clear here, I know the pain of getting faulty apple kit. I just had to take a 3G Nano back for a tilted screen (which resulted in the purchase of a 16Gb Touch), I went through 5 Macbook Pro's before arriving at one I was happy with (ah launch models, how we love you) and the Macbook I'm writing this on has had to have the topcase replaced (£$£!!! design faults). None of these should ever be considered good things or acceptable in terms of the quality of the product.
HOWEVER, every single problem I've ever experienced with an Apple product has been handled swiftly and with some of the best customer service I've ever received by my local Apple store. Surely if you get a duff Touch you simply stick it back in the box, either call Apple or take it back to the store you bought it at and ask for a refund / replacement? From reading the comments here and elsewhere you'd think that Apple were refusing replacement or claiming there was no fault on these units.
Or am I missing something?
Just tried the videos, looks like my screen isn't as bad as some. Both looked fairly similar. However I have noticed that when holding the screen in landscape at about 35-40 degrees it looks even better. Maybe apple where expecting people to hold them a bit flater instead of bolt upright. Like I said though mine seems better than others.
lol, who would watch a landscape movie with the device tilting to the left? I didn't see anybody place their TVs to a angle intentionally so they don't watch it right on.
if Apple is expecting us to do that. I would say they are insane.
IMHO, users having to run to apple store itself is a problem. or mailing the device to apple repair center, so they are w/o devices for weeks, is a problem too. maybe some people don't care. But I doubt other companies has as much QC issue as apple in past 3 years.
It's kind of funny - this thread is an exercise in why the world works the way it does. There are some who get it, and some who don't.
OK, one more time. The touches ALL LOOK THE SAME when you hold them side by side with the same stuff on em. It's only when you have different people describing or photographing different content from different angles in different lighting conditions that you have variation. This is why I say it's subjective. Surely people can understand this simple idea.
It's kind of funny - this thread is an exercise in why the world works the way it does. There are some who get it, and some who don't.
OP, please address post #88: if it's just a software issue, why are professional reviewers who do side-by-sides of multiple Touches seeing great variation among Touches? Shouldn't the software/firmware be the same in all units at this early stage?
Since you "get it," a point-by-point response to #88 would be appreciated.
EDIT:
And that's my point: what about when the same person (a pro reviewer!) has two or more units side-by-side, with the same content, at the same angles, in the same lighting conditions, and STILL sees great variation among them?
well, I give up that idea yesterday,
we now have a pretty good standard: Jay-Z's infamous CD cover. and altho most people find the problem when they check that pics, there is one guy who's shot indicates his device is probably fine.
I don't quite get why Apple has a brightness slider on the touch, but not a contrast or gamma slider.
Think about it. Displays vary. There will always be differences, and more importantly the setting in which you view the screen may be different for someone else.
The reason most things with a display come with a contrast, brightness, color control, all that crap, is because they NEED it. They need it so the end user can adjust it to their needs.
There may in fact be a hardware issue, but it makes a A LOT OF SENSE that it could just as easily be a software issue.
Pictures on my touch look darker then on my Mac. Brightness just washes it out, what I need is a contrast slider.
Think about it. Displays vary. There will always be differences, and more importantly the setting in which you view the screen may be different for someone else.
The reason most things with a display come with a contrast, brightness, color control, all that crap, is because they NEED it. They need it so the end user can adjust it to their needs.
There may in fact be a hardware issue, but it makes a A LOT OF SENSE that it could just as easily be a software issue.
Pictures on my touch look darker then on my Mac. Brightness just washes it out, what I need is a contrast slider.
Subjective? I've seen the exact same angle with a good iPod touch and a bad one. It's NOT subjective, there does exist a trait that makes it a good screen from a bad screen. The theory is not conclusive enough. Also to note the user who just re-encoded their video; there is absolutely no difference that I can tell.