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iPod touch There are no bad screens

jmpage2 said:
Registered quicktime and as indicated, lowered Gamma of one of my movies by 1/5 and saved it in Quicktime Pro.

Here's a picture (taken with Canon 20D and just resized) of the original;

kill_bill_original.jpg


And here's the 'fixed' one.

kill_bill_fixed.jpg
Click to expand...
I can see negative black on both pics, sigh
Ninden said:
I don't quite get why Apple has a brightness slider on the touch, but not a contrast or gamma slider.
.
Click to expand...
apple's inability of coding is now rooted in my heart. Together with QC, (I had major problems with 3 out of 5 products I bought from apple)
 
I agree with some people here. As of RIGHT NOW, this is indeed a workaround. We are adjusting our CONTENT rather than the iPod screen (because you can't adjust the screen contrast) to display correctly on the iPod. I think people are getting confused. Once Apple re-calibrates the display via software/firmware we will not need to adjust our videos and pictures... they should look the same on the computer screen and on the iPod screen. By the way, the 5G iPods don't have a contrast slider either and they look fine.... why do we NEED a contrast slider... Apple just needs to correct it themselves. Also, the reason why it looks better when tilted is because the colors and contrast change as you tilt the screen around therefore almost manually adjusting the contrast to your liking by shifting the angle you are looking at the screen. If it looks good at an angle then there is a good bet that they can make it look good straight on with a simple software fix and that would prevent everyone with "bad" screens from returning their $400 iPods.
 
I am done here. It was the contrast slider that needed to be moved, as well as tweaking some of the other settings.

I can make it work. Apple can make it work. Some people just feel more comfy Apple-bashing.

bye.
 
TheSpaz said:
I agree with some people here. As of RIGHT NOW, this is indeed a workaround. We are adjusting our CONTENT rather than the iPod screen (because you can't adjust the screen contrast) to display correctly on the iPod. I think people are getting confused. Once Apple re-calibrates the display via software/firmware we will not need to adjust our videos and pictures... they should look the same on the computer screen and on the iPod screen. By the way, the 5G iPods don't have a contrast slider either and they look fine.... why do we NEED a contrast slider... Apple just needs to correct it themselves. Also, the reason why it looks better when tilted is because the colors and contrast change as you tilt the screen around therefore almost manually adjusting the contrast to your liking by shifting the angle you are looking at the screen. If it looks good at an angle then there is a good bet that they can make it look good straight on with a simple software fix and that would prevent everyone with "bad" screens from returning their $400 iPods.
Click to expand...

As just tested on the bottom of Page 4, negatives appear in video with the 'fix'. Don't know if that proves the theory 100% wrong, but doesn't promote it either.
 
If one assumes that this is fixable by software, why didn't Apple load the iPod touch with the correct gamma or color curves in the first place? They certainly know the exact LCD display specs from their display OEMs to nail the values and get a great looking display right out of the box.

And if Apple and their display OEMs think that the quality of the LCD was so variable that the end user would need to have a choice of *different* gammas or color curves why didn't they provide a way to make those things changeable under Settings?

Do you think your mom or dad or a non-techy person knows how (or why) to change gamma or the color curves of their LCD monitor of their Mac? Of course not. And Apple knows this to. Apple strives to make things like changing gamma a complete non issue.

That's why I'm sure you'll never see an software update to suddenly provide you with Contrast or gamma adjustment on an Iphone or Ipod touch.

So that leaves Apple the choice of shipping the IPod with a specific color curve, and you know what. They've done exactly that with the Ipods they've already shipped.
 
Yeah, I don't think it's a great idea to have gamma and contrast adjustments with the Touch. It would be good for about 5% of the use base, and bad for the rest IMO (inevitably people would mess things up and blame the product.)

It hasn't been necessary with other video-capable iPods, Apple just needs to fix this problem (hardware or software.)

It still doesn't seem clearcut what the issue is. There's a lot of shouting back and forth about whether all units are affected, how much individual perception comes into play, varations in viewing angle and lighting, and different anecdotal information on the net. At this point, it's possible that not even Apple knows what the deal is.

I do agree with the other poster that it will get resolved. Maybe not as quickly as we'd like, but it will get resolved. So for now instead of watching movies, just listen to some happy music instead. ;)
 
uburoibob said:
I am done here. It was the contrast slider that needed to be moved, as well as tweaking some of the other settings.

I can make it work. Apple can make it work. Some people just feel more comfy Apple-bashing.

bye.
Click to expand...


My test shots would seem to disagree with you (and yes it was contrast slider I adjusted, sorry for wrong verbage earlier), but maybe you could actually post some of your own from the device demonstrating what I've done "wrong".
 
a gamma and contrast problem?

try to see if you can adjust your computer LCD's contrast and gamma setting to get negative black.

puting apple's $$$ above users' benefit is beyond I can safely describe here.
 
uburoibob said:
I am done here. It was the contrast slider that needed to be moved, as well as tweaking some of the other settings.

I can make it work. Apple can make it work. Some people just feel more comfy Apple-bashing.

bye.
Click to expand...

OK, re. my previous 2 posts, I'll give uburoibob one more chance to respond to a glaring flaw in his theory: professional reviewers have 2 or more Touches side-by-side, under the same light, using the same video, at the same angles, and STILL see great variations/problems among them. (e.g. Macworld/Playlist)

uburoibob's whole argument boils down to "it's a software issue that people perceive (or photo) differently, thus some see a problem and some don't."

But that can't explain why experienced pros with multiple units report some are good but some are really bad. Software/firmware should be from the same master image & constant. That only leaves a hardware problem affecting some units. All the OP's PS/QT solution does is compensate for the bad hardware.

My full post on this is #88, or link below. I'm still waiting for uburoibob to explain how pro reviewers, who look at iPods all the time, are suddenly seeing problems in only some Touches. If he won't, I call BS on the "no bad screens" line.

aidanpendragon said:
1st post here
Click to expand...
 
It's pointless to try to debate secondhand information from reviewers, some guy who went to an Apple store, or what someone says some Apple Genius told them the other day at lunch. Everyone has read different things, and there is probably a lot of misinformation and improper conclusions at this point floating around.

But this is what you can do. If you have a defective unit, try viewing the test images and video (especially the video!) in this thread. I think there are 'original' and 'adjusted' videos, so you have a control to evaluate against. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with Bob's theory, the simplest way to evaluate it is to test your own unit with these images, not debate about secondhand info.

All we can do right now is observe the results on our own personal units, and post back with YOUR results (forget about anyone else's for now.) This is more important than debating theories based on insufficient, contradictory, and anecdotal information.

If you have a unit to test with, I think it's important to note-

1. Are you able to view your iPod Touch screen DIRECTLY with no negative black effect with the adjusted video?

2. If so, how good is the contrast on your iPod Touch screen? Are the blacks really black? (ignore what you see on a computer screen, these test images are designed to simulate a remapping of display values for the Touch.)

I'm not too concerned about off-axis viewing, because that's a whole 'nother can of worms- off-axis viewing is suboptimal on all screens. What is important is whether we can eliminate the negative blacks when viewing the screen directly, and if so, is the corrected image still contrasty.

Thanks
 
gkarris said:
Why this post? I thought it's already widely known that it's an issue with the screen's coating and the only way to fix it is to get the screen replaced...
Click to expand...

It's not widely known, it's widely suspected. But no one really knows for sure, even though the explanation does seem to jive with many peoples' experience with the Touch.
 
lol, who would watch a landscape movie with the device tilting to the left? I didn't see anybody place their TVs to a angle intentionally so they don't watch it right on.
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I didn't state tilting to the left. You tilt the touch away from you slightly. People are posting pics that are directly overhead shots, people dont sit with the device flat on a table and watch it, if you watch it in your hands there is a natural angle.

Either way its duff blacks ahoy for most, anyone gonna guess when apple will fess up? Either way i dont really care, i'll take mine back if no fix is provided, just would be nice to know they know what the issue is and how to fix it.
 
madmaxmedia said:
It's not widely known, it's widely suspected. But no one really knows for sure, even though the explanation does seem to jive with many peoples' experience with the Touch.
Click to expand...

I was at the Apple store and their Touches worked fine, straight on and at most angles (I watched a music video that was loaded and had a lot of dark areas).

The pics I've seen that were from straight on look horrible... my experiences with LCD panels is that it is the coating, and lack of quality control.

More and more will start complaining when owners see what the screens are really supposed to look like.
 
This is just an opinion, but I wouldn't be surprised if the OP's theory is correct. Apple has been doing a very poor job recently at providing reasonable calibration profiles for other display hardware as well. The latest 15.4" MBPs and 20" iMacs are a prime example. In the case of the 20" iMac, the default gamma values cause washed out mid-tones and a heavy crush in the brights. Go too far the other direction and you'll get dingy looking mid-tones and a crush in the darks. Combine that with the natural characteristics of a TN panel and it could very well explain the "defect" people are seeing on the iPod touch.
 
Yup true whole screen of solid dont really show the issue. Decided I will go to the apple store on my way back home tomorrow to see what there demo units are like and if any better I will be exchanging for sure.
 
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Science has officially been dropped on the MacRumors forum!!!!



Let all these screen prob threads be thrown out now. Finally.

Jeez.
 
Sean Dempsey said:
What did you do to get it to look right? Did you just shift the angle, or actually edit the image of JayZ?
Click to expand...

I actually edited the original image and took the pic from the same dead-on viewing angle. It's not that difficult... as many others have stated, it's all about altering the "dark levels" of the image. The touch has a problem displaying absolute blacks. It really seems as though the manufactured display settings for this screen is just off and needs a software fix...
 
THANK YOU!!! That's what I was hoping someone with a touch would do...

Now- in the adjusted image, how dark are the blacks? Are they reasonably black to you, or are they grey? And there is absolutely no hint of wash out or negative blacks, when viewing directly straight on, right?

It sounds like you are happy with the results, but I just wanted to double-check to be sure.

redRAYZA said:
I actually edited the original image and took the pic from the same dead-on viewing angle. It's not that difficult... as many others have stated, it's all about altering the "dark levels" of the image. The touch has a problem displaying absolute blacks. It really seems as though the manufactured display settings for this screen is just off and needs a software fix...
Click to expand...
 
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