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Uh, no, like I said, percentages put things into perspective. If someone says, "millions of people in this country support this cause, so we need to pass this law", that sounds very impressive . . . until you discover that those "millions" are less than 1% of your country's population and that 99.x % do NOT support it.
Laws apply to everyone and have societal and economic ramifications, but you aren't forced to buy a product. I'd also argue that you have a moral obligation to consider the needs and desires of others, even if they're a small minority of the population.

Also, you're comparing software features that have already been developed and only need to be maintained at very minimal development cost as part of an entire OS to developing and producing an entire hardware product each year. Not a great analogy.
Sure, but Apple certainly has the resources to offer a variety of phone sizes. You also seem to contend that features that a small percentage of users use, should be maintained, but not developed. Would it be better if macOS never had the power user features I mentioned?
 
Then make the iPhone Mini with cheaper components. The Mini failed due to the price being so close to the iPhone 12 and 13. The reason people buy the Mini is due to the size. Do what you need to component-wise to get the price down. It clearly failed at $700 USD as a starting price.
But if people intrinsically think a smaller phone is worth less money than a larger one, and in reality the size doesn't significantly affect the cost, why wouldn't Apple make a larger phone with cheaper components instead?

That way, Apple could either charge more, or make customers think they're getting a better deal.

(Fwiw, I'm planning to replace my iPhone 6S with a 13 Mini shortly. I want a mini, dynamic islands be damned.)
 
Yeah, like many people here, I bought a 13 Pro because I wanted the better cameras over my true desire of size in the 13 Mini. I was moving from an X and initially hated the new size/bulk of the 13 Pro and almost traded to the 13 Mini. Truly wish I had. Now almost a year later, I've grown accustomed to the 13 Pro size heft, but really miss the diminutive 13 Mini size. If my wife wouldn't kill me, I'd trade in and get a 13 Mini...
 
They should have made an iPhone Mini will less features instead of a Mini version of the iPhone 12/13. People just want the iPhone Mini for its size. It failed when they made it on par with their flagships.

But what can you leave away that doesn't impact functionality?

Cheaper camera would be fine for me. But I wouldn't want to compromise on the amount of RAM, Storage (I bought the 256GB version as it also replaced my ipod classic) or the CPU - simply because I would assume that it lowers the useful lifetime of the device due to the hardware not being capable of running the current iOS versions. A lower lifetime means I need to buy a new phone more quickly, so I wouldn't have saved money despite the cheaper initial price.

The SE lacked the face-id and I really do hate those touch-ids with passion. Have it on the ipad air and had it on former android phone. It often doesn't work and for sure doesn't work when I wear gloves or my hands are moist.
 
I do chuckle that my 8-plus with its 5.5 inch screen (with a home button) is pretty much the iPhone 13 mini at 5.4 inch without the home button.

I sometimes find the 8-plus big… I'm guessing the jump to the Pro model might be a shock to my system! :p
 
I do chuckle that my 8-plus with its 5.5 inch screen (with a home button) is pretty much the iPhone 13 mini at 5.4 inch without the home button.

I sometimes find the 8-plus big… I'm guessing the jump to the Pro model might be a shock to my system! :p
Wow, never really thought of that. I used to have an 8 Plus…felt like a bloated boat compared to my 13 mini.
 
From what I heard the 12 mini was kind of disappointing and the 13 fixed those shortcomings. So Apple kind of screwed themselves by saturating the market with the lesser one which probably hurt demand. Keeping the 13 around and maybe making a new one every other year from now on seems like a plan.

Interesting though that this year Apple went with the exact opposite plan. I sometimes wonder if they really have a long term plan in mind anymore or if they are just figuring out how to take advantage of whatever they can do at the time.

Like switching to a hole punch display and calling it dynamic island.
 
Laws apply to everyone and have societal and economic ramifications, but you aren't forced to buy a product. I'd also argue that you have a moral obligation to consider the needs and desires of others, even if they're a small minority of the population.

Not sure what you're on about with the first sentence. As to the second, wow, no I absolutely disagree that a company has a moral obligation to cater to anyone's needs.

Sure, but Apple certainly has the resources to offer a variety of phone sizes. You also seem to contend that features that a small percentage of users use, should be maintained, but not developed. Would it be better if macOS never had the power user features I mentioned?

Of course they have the resources to, but if the phone is not making them enough money to justify continued production, they will either reduce or stop production. I never said any features of macOS should not be developed. Not sure how you got that out of what I said.
 
I do chuckle that my 8-plus with its 5.5 inch screen (with a home button) is pretty much the iPhone 13 mini at 5.4 inch without the home button.

I sometimes find the 8-plus big… I'm guessing the jump to the Pro model might be a shock to my system! :p
Not really. The aspect ratios are way different. The widths of 13 mini and 8 plus are not comparable at all.
 
Now they have learned their lesson. I totally disagree with you that there isn't a market for a lower spec iPhone Mini. They should have ditched the SE and offered the Mini instead with less power.

So then you'd have to conclude that the bean counters and market researchers at Apple are a bunch of morons for either not seeing it or seeing it and not acting on it. I guess they should've hired you, since you apparently see something that they don't. There's "a market" for one, but not a large enough one - that's the whole point.
 
As a hardcore fan of small phones, the reason I didn’t get a Mini (so far) was not at all because of price, nor even because of lack of pro features. It was because
1) the Mini is still too big for me. The 5/SE1 was truly the largest size body and screen for easy secure one-handed use IMO. And
2) I’m maybe equally a hardcore fan of Touch ID, which the Mini does not have.
Therefore I decided to hold onto my SE1 until a more suitable replacement comes along, or if not, then until the SE1 becomes unusable and I’m forced to “replace” it.
It hasn’t happened yet, but once the SE1 inevitably does go kaput, as far as my current options, I’m strongly leaning toward getting the newest SE. I can’t say I've completely ruled out the Mini 13, but the SE having Touch ID is too strong of a factor. It also has a big top/bottom bezel which will give me somewhere safe to pinch it which I find I need to do with my phone from time to time. It does have a slightly wider body than the Mini which is worse for one-handed use, but has a shorter screen which is better for one-handed use, which probably makes one-handed use a wash between the two devices. But the Mini is better in every other way. Flat edges make it less prone to slip out of hand and looks better IMO, and it has larger storage and a better camera and other better tech. If the Mini had Touch ID, I would certainly get that over the SE, but Touch ID is too big a deal for me. Again, price is not a concern for me. I would gladly pay for the phone I want. And I would pay more for more pro features.

I’m know the small phone thing is pretty counter-cultural. Mainstream wants to have the biggest phone and screen possible while still being portable enough. I want to have the smallest phone and screen possible while still being functional enough. (Therefore the Watch, for example, as a standalone device is out.) This is because my ideal is to use my phone only when needed while I’m out, like a pocket Swiss Army knife. A small Swiss Army knife isn’t meant to be used constantly, just there when you need it, otherwise invisible. In an ideal world, you won’t need to use it at all. A phone to me is almost the same thing. I use it to quickly look up occasional info if I have to, then it disappears back into the pocket, only to come out again if and when it is needed. But it’s different from the Swiss knife in that I do need to use my phone daily and often, namely for messaging, audio (calls, music, navigation), and to a lesser degree taking pictures and video. But the thing is, I wouldn’t benefit significantly or at all from a larger screen for these tasks. Even navigation, though displayed bigger for me via CarPlay, is ideally and mostly done with audio cues for safety.

If I really do need a bigger screen while I’m out, eg. to do some work, I’ll almost always know ahead of time, and I’ll bring a much more suitable device than a phone (ie. iPad or laptop). On the rare occasion work is unforeseen or if I just don’t want to bring anything bigger, I’m fine making do with a smaller screen, as it still does everything a larger phone does.

Not to say I’m rigid. I do at times partake in entertainment on my phone while I’m out—the very occasional video or game or social media—but those are far from often enough or important enough to be a reason for me to have a larger phone.

When I get to work or home, however, then it’s screens all day. For work and play. And it’s because these are relatively extremely controlled environments, and the ideal intended places for these purposes.

Two common counterarguments I get are that small screens are hard for old/bad eyes, and the keyboard is too small to type accurately. My eyes aren’t good either, so I simply make text bigger. It means a little more scrolling, but again, for someone who uses their phone only as needed, that’s a tiny price to pay. For two thumb typing, a smaller keyboard is harder, but I use QuickPath one-handed, which is as fast as two thumb typing and more convenient once you get used to it, and which is better on the smaller keyboard.

The reason I want my phone to be unobtrusive is that while I’m out I want to focus on the environment and especially the people around me. I think the real world is truly more real, in that it has greater potential to make deeper impact in our lives. The virtual world, and even good ol fashioned books for that matter, are great for information and inspiration, but I don’t believe when we’re on our deathbed we will wish we were on our phones more, or even reading books more. We will wish we were more involved with our world and with people. I believe real valuable life is lived in the physical world with the people physically around us.
And the virtual world is much more contrived and manipulated. People only put out there what they want you to see. This is good for things like education, but it’s bad for living authentic life. You can’t see honest unconscious reactions. You can’t feel the energy in a room. You can’t share a look with a stranger as you both react to something funny that just happened. And the internet is siloed. In the real world, it’s one world in which anyone or thing can come into your proximity in such an unpredictable way. Which is not only potentially deeply good, but also potentially deeply bad, so there are safety reasons for always being alert to the environment. I think whenever my eyes are on my phone it blinds me to my immediate world and it also tells people, I don’t acknowledge you, I’m not here. (Headphones do the same thing.) And if we’re honest, isn’t much of the time spent on phones actually on active time-killers that purposely lead nowhere?

Wow this post got long.
 
But if people intrinsically think a smaller phone is worth less money than a larger one, and in reality the size doesn't significantly affect the cost, why wouldn't Apple make a larger phone with cheaper components instead?

That way, Apple could either charge more, or make customers think they're getting a better deal.

(Fwiw, I'm planning to replace my iPhone 6S with a 13 Mini shortly. I want a mini, dynamic islands be damned.)
I mean they just did. That's what the iPhone 14 Plus is. A larger new iPhone that doesn't start at $1,100.
 
Not sure what you're on about with the first sentence. As to the second, wow, no I absolutely disagree that a company has a moral obligation to cater to anyone's needs.

That would be in a completely deregulated capitalist world. Fortunately we do not live in such a world. Boeing tried it, until planes started dropping out of the sky and got their knuckles severely rapped. We all need obligations and regulations.
 
But what can you leave away that doesn't impact functionality?

Cheaper camera would be fine for me. But I wouldn't want to compromise on the amount of RAM, Storage (I bought the 256GB version as it also replaced my ipod classic) or the CPU - simply because I would assume that it lowers the useful lifetime of the device due to the hardware not being capable of running the current iOS versions. A lower lifetime means I need to buy a new phone more quickly, so I wouldn't have saved money despite the cheaper initial price.

The SE lacked the face-id and I really do hate those touch-ids with passion. Have it on the ipad air and had it on former android phone. It often doesn't work and for sure doesn't work when I wear gloves or my hands are moist.
They could do many things to make a cheaper iPhone Mini. LCD screen. Touch ID on the power button. Less powerful cameras. No 5G.
 
It’s a damned shame but if it didn’t make financial sense then that’s the bottom line. Literally. I’ve got the 13 mini and, at least as an upgrade from iPhone 8, it’s absolutely stellar!

I’ve never been a fan of the iPhone 6 onwards size because I found it a bit too big and a bit too cumbersome in my pocket.
I do hope that maybe at some point if mini iPhones dont make a surprise comeback here and there, maybe bezels will get even smaller to accommodate a slightly smaller form factor or the mini becomes the next SE.
 
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So then you'd have to conclude that the bean counters and market researchers at Apple are a bunch of morons for either not seeing it or seeing it and not acting on it. I guess they should've hired you, since you apparently see something that they don't. There's "a market" for one, but not a large enough one - that's the whole point.
Yeah, I really hate these sarcastic replies to be honest. Don't waste my time please. It does nothing to advance the conversation and it just annoys and angers the person you are replying to.

I also thought Apple was right to take that risk. Never said otherwise. They made a bet. It failed. You can't win with every decision you make. Not even Apple is perfect.

They can simply make a market correction now. The flagship iPhone Mini did not work. Adjust and make it a cheaper offering and you'll have far better sales and a more logical position in the iPhone lineup.
 
They could do many things to make a cheaper iPhone Mini. LCD screen. Touch ID on the power button. Less powerful cameras. No 5G.
But then I wouldn't buy it. It would be unattractive.

OLED display is a big plus. Touch ID is a no go. 5G (although often turned off) is important as a road warrior, in case I need to download/upload large amounts of data or have a conference call (streaming desktop/presenting stuff).
 
But then I wouldn't buy it. It would be unattractive.

OLED display is a big plus. Touch ID is a no go. 5G (although often turned off) is important as a road warrior, in case I need to download/upload large amounts of data or have a conference call (streaming desktop/presenting stuff).
Well that's you. That doesn't mean others wouldn't. What they offered clearly didn't work.
 
Yeah, I really hate these sarcastic replies to be honest. Don't waste my time please. It does nothing to advance the conversation and it just annoys and angers the person you are replying to.

I also thought Apple was right to take that risk. Never said otherwise. They made a bet. It failed. You can't win with every decision you make. Not even Apple is perfect.

They can simply make a market correction now. The flagship iPhone Mini did not work. Adjust and make it a cheaper offering and you'll have far better sales and a more logical position in the iPhone lineup.

No one's forcing you to read or reply to me, so it sort of falls flat to say I'm wasting your time when your'e the one choosing to "waste" it 🙄 The point of my sarcasm was to point out that it makes no sense to say there's currently a good market for a "cheaper" Mini iPhone, because if there were, Apple would be all over that. They've known for a while that the sales of the Minis weren't going as they wanted, so they've had time to develop a cheaper one if they wanted to. But I guess you only consider it "advancing the conversation" if people agree with you.

I'm not saying it will never happen, but the various factors needed to make it happen are apparently not there at this time.
 
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