Things you HATE about Macs...

[DaveF]

- Spotlight no longer searches the entire system (e.g. looking for a kext it is no longer indexed)

I noticed that Spotlight didn't seem to search everything as I expected it too, but I thought it was just me. I really like Spotlight, as it actually finds things, whereas Windows XP's search is pathetically poor and generally unsuccessful.

But the discovery that the 10.5 Spotlight doesn't quite search everything leaves me a confused at times.

 

[xUKHCx]

I noticed that Spotlight didn't seem to search everything as I expected it too, but I thought it was just me. I really like Spotlight, as it actually finds things, whereas Windows XP's search is pathetically poor and generally unsuccessful.

But the discovery that the 10.5 Spotlight doesn't quite search everything leaves me a confused at times.

You can get it to search for everything but it takes a few more steps. Very annoying (for my use of spotlight anyway)

 

[sunfast]

- Spotlight in finder windows defaults to system wide (which is dumb, if I'm in a finder window you have the context, I want to search in that window obviously)

This is really irritating, seems like random behaviour.

I found your comments about the Dock interesting. I'd never really picked up its inconsistencies but I find it a fantastic way use my system. My folks and brother (upon switching) remarked exactly the same.

 

[DaveF]

That doesn't say I want it to be like Windows for the sake of it. It just points out that Apple's decision is counter to the ENTIRE REST OF THE INDUSTRY.

That's kinda funny statement. Since the "ENTIRE REST OF THE INDUSTRY" is Microsoft, you're noting the obvious: that Apple does things differently than Microsoft.

And historically, it's Microsoft that does it differently from Apple, as Apple was there first with the GUI. Microsoft veered off into their own direction with application-centric menus.

...

I thought the menu bar at top was silly some years back. But now that I've got a MacBook Pro, I find it generally quite sensible. Particularly with a trackpad, Fitt's Law matters, and it's easier to hit the menu bar than a in-app menu. And when using my mouse, it's a bit easier, and no less convenient scooting to the top of a 1440x900 monitor to get to the menu bar than anywhere else on screen. Even less so, I expect, for a MacBook user with a 1200 x 800 screen.

But your point is well made about those (currently small number) of users with dual screens, or -- at the extreme edge -- one or more 30" monitors. There, it's a real issue to mouse 2000 pixels over to get to a menu. But that speaks to the difficully in devising a GUI that scales well from low-res displays with low-fidelity pointing devices to ultra-high resolution displays with fast, accurate pointers.

As a former menu-bar hater, I have to confess that it's a good compromise for what I think is the vast majority of users.

 

[janstett]

adjei7, you can read NTFS drives out of the box. You just can't write to them.

Hldan I'm done with you since you're obviously a zealot. I should have known from your evangelical sig to just walk away from you.

 

[snickelfritz]

What exactly is in the application menus that cannot be accessed by keyboard shortcut?
Users that complain about menu implementations would probably be better off if they learn to use the keyboard instead of the mouse.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

That's kinda funny statement. Since the "ENTIRE REST OF THE INDUSTRY" is Microsoft, you're noting the obvious: that Apple does things differently than Microsoft.

What about Linux?

But your point is well made about those (currently small number) of users with dual screens, or -- at the extreme edge -- one or more 30" monitors. There, it's a real issue to mouse 2000 pixels over to get to a menu. But that speaks to the difficully in devising a GUI that scales well from low-res displays with low-fidelity pointing devices to ultra-high resolution displays with fast, accurate pointers.

As a user who often uses dual displays, I agree with janstett, the menu bar does suck, and I think that anyone who's ever used firefox on their secondary hi-res monitor will agree.

and what do I hate about the mac...

No multimedia buttons - why don't I have a dedicated play/pause, or better yet, a dedicated button for opening up my default email client, a finder window, or web browser? PC's had this option almost a decade ago, why don't macs have it yet?!

Doesn't play well with Windows - Yea yea yea macs aren't windows. good for them. Now, explain to me why, whenever I use file sharing, I end up with all these freakin .filename files on XP, that I don't have in OS X. Oh, wait.. that's because macs do things differently from windows, but seeing as OS X is the guest, shouldn't it at least clean up after itself?

The Dock - It just drives me nuts! I think it's how it looks....

 

[exspes]

That's kinda funny statement. Since the "ENTIRE REST OF THE INDUSTRY" is Microsoft, you're noting the obvious: that Apple does things differently than Microsoft.

And historically, it's Microsoft that does it differently from Apple, as Apple was there first with the GUI. Microsoft veered off into their own direction with application-centric menus.

I think the point janstett has been trying to make during this thread is:

Companies, no matter who they are, shouldn't do things differently just for the sake of doing it differently. They should use the best UI choices avaliable inside an ecosystem.

I've used plenty of high-end mac systems on single 30" monitor setups. Even there the menu bar tends to involve more mouse movement than I like. It's just purely a speed of use thing. On a large monitor I may have several apps running with their windows side by side all visible. So while my shiny apple allows me have apps open, it only allows me ONE of their menus to show at a time. I have to perform an extra click to access an apps menu, which if you do a lot of multitasking adds up and becomes annoying.

As for the argument for "if a menu is always in the top edge of the screen, no accuracy is required"

One - the only menu that's at the top of the screen is the system menu. Everything else needs *some* degree of accuracy at least in the X axis.

Two - there comes a point in screen size where moving your mouse a distance takes longer than moving your mouse more carefully a smaller distance.

 

[snickelfritz]

Why are application menu systems not yet incorporated into a mouse button function?
ie: command-option-click (or whatever) within an application or on the desktop, and the application menu appears as a list.
No menubar at all would be necessary in the main GUI.
This solves the multiple display issue and reduces wasted screen real estate.
(and the top of the display now becomes available as workspace)

Seems like this would be relatively easy to implement, and would be far more extensible than a horizontal bar at the top of the display.

 

[HLdan]

adjei7, you can read NTFS drives out of the box. You just can't write to them.

Hldan I'm done with you since you're obviously a zealot. I should have known from your evangelical sig to just walk away from you.

Ha ha ha, as I laugh at you my earlier post was correct about you, you are quick to call someone a fanboy just because I actually like what I bought and I was SMART enough to research before I bought so I didn't waste my money like you did.
Say what you want but the majority here is not supporting your angry rants. Happy New Year.

 

[Digital Skunk]

I use Firefox on two display's and don't have any problems, but then again I don't b*tch and whine about minute little things in my OS. I like to tackle the larger problems with companies, not ask why they don't have gimmicky consumer crap locked into their software and hardware.

For Apple, it's the limited amount of hardware they have right now. As a power user the OS is still hands over foot easier to use and far more powerful than Windows, but the hardware it's tied to puts it on par with any average PC computer.... sans the MacPro of course.

Consumers can rejoice in their iMacs and MacBooks/MacBook Pros which are all wonderful machines, but Pros don't have much to choose from in a laptop, and the only desktop option is a Mac Pro, which is as good as it gets, but where's my portable?

 

[HLdan]

I use Firefox on two display's and don't have any problems, but then again I don't b*tch and whine about minute little things in my OS. I like to tackle the larger problems with companies, not ask why they don't have gimmicky consumer crap locked into their software and hardware.

For Apple, it's the limited amount of hardware they have right now.

Agreed, drop the UI whining, what's more important to raise concerns about is compatibility. Many people want to start their own companies and use commercial equipment and may prefer to use the Mac OS. It sucks that many commercial designed printers/copiers only have Windows drivers as well as other specific office equipment.
Yes of course the vendor making the equipment could make drivers however I just feel that Apple is not being aggressive enough.

 

[CalBoy]

No multimedia buttons - why don't I have a dedicated play/pause, or better yet, a dedicated button for opening up my default email client, a finder window, or web browser? PC's had this option almost a decade ago, why don't macs have it yet?!

Because multimedia buttons are tacky? They are seriously an eye sore if there are too many of them, and we all know how Apple loves clean design (which is why I happen to like Apple's designs). That's the best explanation I can come up with.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Agreed, drop the UI whining, what's more important to raise concerns about is compatibility. Many people want to start their own companies and use commercial equipment and may prefer to use the Mac OS. It sucks that many commercial designed printers/copiers only have Windows drivers as well as other specific office equipment.
Yes of course the vendor making the equipment could make drivers however I just feel that Apple is not being aggressive enough.

If it's a niche product then there may be no drivers, but almost all professional products that aren't niche and obscure work with Mac OS out of the box. The other alternative is to boot in Windows on the Mac.

My biggest concern is that most users are satisfied with current "one-size-fits-all" offering in the Apple camp, which isn't a big issue at all, just one that leaves many user blind to what they could be using. I would love to have a real desktop replacement from Apple. A 17" Alienware competitor. Not the huge laptop that is 2" thick, but can we get a 17" book with a pro GFX card and dual HDD? Make the case a tenth of inch bigger if they have to, but the only thing the 17" offers over the 15" is one extra useless USB that many pros can't use, and a larger screen.

If I was a screen junky (kind of am) I would go for the 17" no matter what, but I can't see myself paying that much extra for just a USB port and a larger screen. Most people's complaints are justified but they are also very whiney and consumer-ish.

Users want a MacBook Pro with more USB ports... WTF for? I have to plug in my FW800 portable drive, a FW card reader, and another FW port for the HD camcorder.... wait.... don't have that extra FW400 port. I get back to the office and want to backup my HDD using an eSATA external... can't do that. I have a friend's drive that uses FW400 and I need something off of it but I am capturing video to my FW800 drive.... darn going to have to wait.

WE NEED A PRO LAPTOP, not a slow-as-hell USB laptop. And there was a lot of fuss over somethings that Apple has wrong with their OS. For me the biggest problem is that it doesn't run on PC hardware. I like the looks of the Apple's computers, but they are starting to feel a big flimsy, and underpowered. I really hope Mac World changes that. I hope that we get that ultra portable, a Super 17" MacBook Pro for PROFESSIONALS, and OS 10.5.2 that fixes all the bugs with Leopard. The menu-bar is a moot point and paramount to, "Why doesn't Mac OS X work the way I think it should work?" How about.... it crashes when I am exporting footage after it's 4 hours into the export.

 

[Brianstorm91]

And historically, it's Microsoft that does it differently from Apple

Video!

 

[DaveF]

What about Linux?

What about Linux? It copies Microsoft, except when it copies Apple.

Companies, no matter who they are, shouldn't do things differently just for the sake of doing it differently. They should use the best UI choices avaliable inside an ecosystem.

You're right. So go get MS to revert back to how Apple did things. They're the ones who went off and did things for the sake of doing differently. Once upon a time, Apple actually had HI experts and designed things according to what was observably best.

I agree -- and to me that's the biggest weakness about Leopard. There are obviously changes made simply to look new and shiny, and not because they work better. Ten seconds with the new stacks should have lead immediately to a rewrite. I can only guess they needed "different", and not better, to sell. Likewise the transparent menu bar, and so on.

Having only recently joined the Apple club, I'm concerned that OS X has peaked, and they're on the decline now in terms of UI development. This is doubly concerning because Vista seems like the re-heated remains of XP. And because when Apple does something right, it's remarkable and you wonder how no one ever thought of something so perfect before (Expose and Quicklook are good examples).

 

[Digital Skunk]

I agree -- and to me that's the biggest weakness about Leopard. There are obviously changes made simply to look new and shiny, and not because they work better. Ten seconds with the new stacks should have lead immediately to a rewrite. I can only guess they needed "different", and not better, to sell. Likewise the transparent menu bar, and so on.

Having only recently joined the Apple club, I'm concerned that OS X has peaked, and they're on the decline now in terms of UI development. This is doubly concerning because Vista seems like the re-heated remains of XP. And because when Apple does something right, it's remarkable and you wonder how no one ever thought of something so perfect before (Expose and Quicklook are good examples).

I second that. Leopard has pretty much given us more than what we want eye candy wise. Vista does take the eye candy crown however, but Leopard to me is as far as eye candy should go. Apple's next iteration of an OS should be something that dramatically changes the way I interact with computers, if not, then just refine Leopard to the point where it's perfect. There is nothing more to add but usability. Spaces, Expose, Quicklook, and to some extent Stacks are what is needed more now. Ways to move about and use my machine more efficiently, things Windows just doesn't do right no matter how many plug-ins you use.

With refining the UI I hope Apple is working on spreading their hardware options and iTunes options, things that have been left behind for quite some time. NOW is the time Apple should be pushing themselves into new markets, Gamer machines, business laptops and desktops, ultra-portables/tablets, nothing too niche, but things that give users more than two laptop and 3 desktop options.

 

[klagermkii]

Full screen applications in Mac OS

I've been reading a lot of back and forth about what the green button should or shouldn't do, but I haven't seen too many suggestions on making it maximise if you don't care if it's "not the mac way to do it".

I use MegaZoomer which is fantastic for making apps full screen just by pressing Cmd-Return. When I'm demonstrating websites on a projector I can make it take over the entire screen (including hiding the Dock), so there are no other distractions visible.

Works with Safari, Mail, Pages, and any other Cocoa app.

 

[bigsprinta]

Green button/maximization

I have also found the green button to be very inconsistent and, for the most part, unhelpful. I wish that it either maximized the screen, as it does with Mail, or or simply made the window fit the screen that is being viewed. Either way, it just needs to be consistent.

 

[exspes]

What about Linux? It copies Microsoft, except when it copies Apple.

You're right. So go get MS to revert back to how Apple did things. They're the ones who went off and did things for the sake of doing differently. Once upon a time, Apple actually had HI experts and designed things according to what was observably best.

For that to make sense one must assume Apple is the only one capable of making good UI choices in the first place.

I agree -- and to me that's the biggest weakness about Leopard. There are obviously changes made simply to look new and shiny, and not because they work better. Ten seconds with the new stacks should have lead immediately to a rewrite. I can only guess they needed "different", and not better, to sell. Likewise the transparent menu bar, and so on.

Except the transparent menu bar reminded people of Vista more than it differentiated itself from it. Which is an ironic part about it all.

Having only recently joined the Apple club, I'm concerned that OS X has peaked, and they're on the decline now in terms of UI development. This is doubly concerning because Vista seems like the re-heated remains of XP. And because when Apple does something right, it's remarkable and you wonder how no one ever thought of something so perfect before (Expose and Quicklook are good examples).

I'm slightly confused on what you meant here... Could you elaborate?

 

[MrGeePee]

I don't like the transparent menubar

Why didn't Apple include an option to turn the transparency off?

I hope this is included in 10.5.2

 

[riker1384]

What I hate is that they don't make a normal home desktop computer.

 

[CalBoy]

What I hate is that they don't make a normal home desktop computer.

You mean like an iMac?

 

[richard.mac]

What I hate is that they don't make a normal home desktop computer.

You mean like an iMac?

i think he means: don't make a normal home [TOWER] desktop computer which brings up the whole mid-ranged mac idea again which i would love but Apple will never do.

 

[Schnebar]

No multimedia buttons - why don't I have a dedicated play/pause, or better yet, a dedicated button for opening up my default email client, a finder window, or web browser? PC's had this option almost a decade ago, why don't macs have it yet?!

If I remember correctly the new apple keyboard does have play pause forward and back buttons.

I am not sure what other buttons it has but you can always set the f buttons to do those tasks.