Things you HATE about Macs...

[CalBoy]

<library analogy>

That is a good analogy. I liked it (I might even use it ) .

 

[kuwisdelu]

and remember, this topic is "things you hate about macs". NOT "why you should not complain about this shortcomes of mac". the way for mac to improve forward is not "sorry its not my fault". rather, it should be "most users like this? then we try to meet our users' need"!

I think most of the people defending Mac here are trying to explain how certain things aren't really shortcomings; they're just how the OS works, because that's how it's designed, and--believe it or not--that's how most of us like it. They're explaining the logic behind what you describe as "shortcomings." That's not saying you can't hate it--but it isn't a shortcoming.

This thread will naturally be biased, because it's a "what you hate about Mac" thread. So while from some of the responses here it may appear "most users would prefer it to be this way," in reality, that's probably a minority consisting of recent switchers who prefer things to work how they're used to. And remember--you can't please anybody. If Apple must choose between satisfying a majority of loyal Mac users, and a few recent switchers who have quibbles with comparatively small aspects of the OS--many of whom grow to like the OS X way of doing things--who do you think they're going to side with?

The little green button is the way it is for a certain reason. It's not supposed to be a maximize button. I think "well, Apple should add a maximize button to the windows" is a much more reasonable response than "Apple got this button wrong!" Because it's not wrong; it's just different, and it's how many, many users like it.

Multi-windowed applications don't close when you hit the red button because you may not be done with the application yet. Just like the great library example above, there are many times you may want to keep an application open even when all the windows are closed. Many, many Mac users utilize this all the time. It's useful to most of us. That means Apple didn't "get it wrong," they just designed it differently. If you REALLY, REALLY want, there ARE free, 3rd-party programs you can download that WILL make the green button do a "maximize" and WILL make applications quit with the red button.

You may not like certain things that are different in OS X from Windows. Give them a try; you may end up liking them. If you don't, there are VERY, VERY often 3rd-party applications that will fix whatever your "problem" is.

I'm not saying there aren't actual problems with OS X. If it were perfect, Apple wouldn't be making new versions. End of story. But there is a different between REAL shortcomings and preferences. Many of the things people have listed here are preferences that aren't problems of OS X. YOU CAN STILL HATE THEM. I don't care. But that's why so many long-time Mac users are getting annoyed that they keep coming up; that's why you keep getting explanations of the logic behind them.

Bottom line: It's a different OS. If you were expecting a more stable, safer version of Windows, then use a distribution of Linux that fulfills your needs. But OS X is its own system. It's like going to a different country and demanding to still drive on the right side of the road. It may bother you; but it's not a shortcoming of the country is. If the people are smelly, poor, rude, and racist, then that's a shortcoming.

 

[ungraphic]

This one's been beaten to death. Like many beginners you are confusing Close Window with the Quit command. Choose the action you want to do and do it. If you want to quit then Quit. There are dozens of situations where you close the last window but want the application to continue running. (Apps can be made to close by the developer by closing the last window, and they tend to take advantage of this if the app can only have one window, e.g. Calculator, System Prefs).

?

No, its a matter of consistency. Azureus closes completely when u click on the red circle. iTunes keeps running when click on its red circle.

Why?

 

[CalBoy]

No, its a matter of consistency. Azureus closes completely when u click on the red circle. iTunes keeps running when click on its red circle.

Why?

The reason is based on the app itself. If closing the window can still allow you to make other changes (like clearing history in Safari or using the "controls" in iTunes). Apps like Calculator or Dictionary have no other function beyond their respective windows. Closing the window will leave you with no other "abilities" and that's why the app itself is quit when you close the last window.

 

[kuwisdelu]

?

No, its a matter of consistency. Azureus closes completely when u click on the red circle. iTunes keeps running when click on its red circle.

Why?

Ah, then in this case, you've got a point. It is a little inconsistent and confusing with a few appear-to-be-single-window applications. With iTunes, the red circle is practically the same as "hide," which I suppose is because the application itself can still be playing music afterward, and so the program is still functional without that window. There are a few programs that seem to disobey the rule. There's usually a good reason for it, but technically you're right, it seems a little inconsistent as far as the "one window means red=quit" rule goes. I'm in the habit of Cmd + Q for quit, so it never bothers me.

A better definition, as CalBoy suggests is, does the program retain important functionality without a window? If the answer is yes (like playing music) then it doesn't quit with the red button.

 

[ungraphic]

Closing the window will leave you with no other "abilities" and that's why the app itself is quit when you close the last window.

In that case, those apps should just become hidden (cmd + h). No point in having a mixed function all across the board. Should be consistent.

Ah, then in this case, you've got a point. It is a little inconsistent and confusing with a few appear-to-be-single-window applications. With iTunes, the red circle is practically the same as "hide," which I suppose is because the application itself can still be playing music afterward, and so the program is still functional without that window. There are a few programs that seem to disobey the rule. There's usually a reason for it, but you're right, it seems a little inconsistent. I'm in the habit of Cmd + Q for quit, so it never bothers me.

i use cmd+q as well, or i literally click on the app name and then select from the menu 'quit' it depends on the situation (if my hands are on the keyboard or if im holding the mouse).

aMSN does the same, it quits completely when clicking on red. last.fm hides, as does transmit, firefox and others. its not a major issue, but its one thing i dont like.

 

[Quu]

I'd have to say there are a few things that annoy me about OS X.

1. No Cut in the Finder. I like to be able to cut a file and close its window I don't want to Copy a file to another location and then delete the original.

2. When I shut down my MacBook Pro I want to be able to hit Shutdown and close the lid straight away while it continues its Shutdown procedure. This isn't possible because as soon as you close the lid (Even during a Shutdown) it goes in to Sleep Mode. I could leave it like this till when I want to use the computer again but if I then open the lid it will continue that same Shutdown I asked it to do previously...

3. The Green + Button or "Maximise" button whatever you wish to call it. I never ever use this button. And the reason is simple, it doesn't do what I need it to. When I want an application to use up 100% of my Screen I want a button to quickly do that. The Green + for me does not do that. Sure I can drag a window to whatever size I want but that takes longer. And sure I can see why people say its better when its enabling the application to show you all that you need to see while having enough room left over on your screen for other apps. But in reality Need and Want are two very different things. I don't want my app windows being squished. I want them as large as I want them and I want a button to fill my screen!

4. Uninstalling applications. It's really easy to drag an app to the Trash to remove them. I have no qualms with that. However when I drag an app to the trash its preference files linger behind. When I drag an Application to the Trash I want the trash to give me 2 options. Do you want to delete just the application or everything the application created in your system the first time it was run. It's that simple. I shouldn't need to purchase App Zapper to accomplish this task for me. I shouldn't need to use Spotlight or the Finder and become a Detective to track down these files. When my Applications start acting in a manner not intended and I keep removing them over and over only to find that it is a corrupted preference file or some other hidden application file causing the problems I get more and more frustrated about this issue.

5. Graphics Drivers. If I have a Mac Pro and I bought it with a 7300GT installed but I want say an 8800GTX or an 8800Ultra or whatever, how can I use these cards with my Mac Pro? There are not any official drivers from Apple or NVIDIA to use these cards. Lets say for example I want to run Windows XP on my Mac Pro in a Dual Boot configuration because as we all know Windows has a large selection of games. Many of the newer titles need considerable graphics horse power. Now lets say I install an 8800GTX in to my Mac Pro that came with a 7300GT. The card runs great in Windows no problems there the Windows NVIDIA Forceware drivers run great. But then if I boot back in to OS X I am greeted with a black screen. Because OS X does not have any drivers for the card. Infact I would have to install both the 8800GTX and the 7300GT and switch between them.

I know Apple are not obligated to offer 3rd party drivers for hardware they are not even shipping with there computers or as a standalone installable package. However it would be nice of them to at-least make some kind of deal with NVIDIA to offer such drivers. I mean if NVIDIA are selling more graphics cards and we have the oppertunity to upgrade to faster graphics cards perhaps then some game developers would go "Hey the Mac platform may actually be viable for our customer base". At the moment it seems we only have Blizzard and EA (Obviously there are a lot more Mac developers but I'm really just looking at the Big Guns here to make my point). It's nice that both of these developers have committed considerable resources to porting and even designing games from the ground up around the Macintosh platform but what about all the developers that don't bother?

Infact wouldn't it be nice if Apple actually filled there "Graphics" pages on the Product pages on there website with reasons why its a great time to start developing games for the Mac platform. How about you share some stats like every Mac shipping now has a OpenGL 2.0 compatible Graphics chip with Shader Model 2.0. Standardise the minimum specifications and let the developers turn the Mac gaming scene in to something really great. Hell make your own DX-type graphics API and integrate it with the xcode tool set for free and make it really simple to develop games on the Mac.

Anyway these are just a few of my gripes I know I went off on a bit of a tangent but truth be told I love my Macintosh computers. To me in some areas like Email, Surfing the Web, Networking, Instant Messaging, Designing with Photoshop, Final Cut or Motion it seem like a cool glass of water compared to Windows and yet in other areas that I've listed above it really falls short in comparison to the competition. Especially gaming which I love so much. Infact if OS X was a viable PC gaming platform I would have ditched my Windows PC's a long time ago and fully made the switch. At the moment I'm stuck in a 50/50 world and its cold out here. Seriously cold.

 

[CalBoy]

In that case, those apps should just become hidden (cmd + h). No point in having a mixed function all across the board. Should be consistent.

Hiding is different from "quitting" or "closing." Hiding doesn't show you the window(s) but they are still "active" in the conventional sense. If you reveal a window from hiding, it will not have changed, essentially preserving what you had within that window.

Closing a window means that that window will never return (the content is gone).

Having the red x close and quit applications wouldn't work for a lot of us. For example, I often have Word "running" for days, even if there is no open window. This is because I will open a document, edit it, then close that document again. Since Word takes a long time to open (this is Word 04), it would be a real pain if I had to reload Word each time.

 

[kuwisdelu]

1. No Cut in the Finder.

5. Graphics Drivers.

I agree with these two.

While not having cut in the Finder isn't really a major issue for me, it is a bit annoying sometimes. We have cut in just about every other application, so I'm not sure why it's not available in Finder when copy is.

And yes, Mac really should make better graphics cards and drivers more readily available on its hardware. I'm not sure why Apple hasn't done this yet. I know there are plenty of great games out there for Mac, but if this were done, Macs could truly become as viable a gaming machine as the most powerful PC's. And that's really the only things Windows machines have over Mac machines, period. With VMWare Fusion, Parallels, and BootCamp, even incompatibility with any Windows-only applications other than games aren't issues anymore.

As for 3.... I guess if it'll finally appease you all, I'll ask my bud Steve to add a blue "fill screen" button just to the right of our green one.

 

[macgruder]

?

No, its a matter of consistency. Azureus closes completely when u click on the red circle. iTunes keeps running when click on its red circle.

Why?

Because Azureus programmers have made a mistake, and broken the Mac paradigm. This is not a problem with OS X. But if you learn to use command-Q when you want to Quit then you wouldn't get confused. Get out of the habit of using the red button when you want to Quit and life will be better for you.

Apparent inconsistencies happen because programmers are given the alternative to quit/hide an app on closing of the last window. This can help beginners who haven't learn to quit properly. Generally, programs that can have no possible purpose with zero windows like calculator are made to quit with the last window quitting.

Since you are discovering that closing the last window is not guaranteed to close the app, then perhaps it's time to learn how we do Quit in the Mac and get used to using it. Here:

Quit: Command-Q
Hide: Command-H
Close Window: Command-W
Learn them.

 

[Soschil]

Actually there is a way to manually eject. You just stick a paperclip or other small object into the very right side of it and there should be a small manual eject lever that you just push on with it. The disc will pop right out.

Really? I didn't know that. I just checked on my iBook, and there's absolutely no indication that this is an option. I wonder why AppleCare didn't tell me to try this?
If it is an option, it should be marked somehow. I personally don't like the idea of randomly prodding bits of metal into various slots on my computers


Reminds me of something though.... I once blew a fuse my C64 trying to reset it with a paper clip. Guess I hit the wrong couple of pins in that port

Edit: Just googled my way to http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106882. Could have used a picture, though.

 

[janstett]

View>Show Path Bar

Very cool tip. Thx.

<Re: no alternative to iTunes>That's not Apple's problem. No one has made an alternative. Talk to those people.

You're way off base here. Apple muscled out the competition.

Remember Musicmatch Jukebox (now Yahoo)? They used to make a Mac version too. Apple threatened them and ended up paying them to cease development when iTunes came out.

Warm, fuzzy Apple Inc. is doing it for all us cool guys for the fun of it!

And by the way iTunes was not written from scratch, they based it on another music player they bought.

As opposed to... You just said there is no alternative, and plus, what can you use your iPod with on Windows? iTunes. And what about a Zune? Only iwth the Zune Software.

Actually, when iPods first came out there was no iTunes for Windows. So companies came up with interesting software like XPlay by MediaFour (I still use it). And unlike iTunes, it sports these awesome features:

- iPod shows up as a hard drive/MTP device. Drag and drop your songs onto it from Explorer.
- Copy data to your iPod in Windows.
- You can copy songs OFF of your iPod onto your computer. Now your iPod can be a backup.
- You can work with Mac-formatted iPods (iTunes makes you reformat)
- iPod shows up in Windows Media Player and Media Center

Ignorance is bliss...

 

[janstett]

I was previously bemoaning the lack of a right drag (drag an object with the right mouse button instead of the left). Here's a great reason why Apple needs to implement this feature.

I was doing some file management, copying selected files from one drive to another. Really what I wanted is a move. I'm copying temporary files off my hard drive onto a memory stick.

In Windows, I can right-drag the items and I'll get a context menu where I can say copy -or- move. In OSX I can't do that, so every move becomes a copy-then-delete, two steps. It wasted a lot of time IMO.

(The lack of) cut and paste from finder is the same issue -- if I could cut files (delete them) and paste them somewhere else, it would achieve the same thing.

 

[r.j.s]

I was previously bemoaning the lack of a right drag (drag an object with the right mouse button instead of the left). Here's a great reason why Apple needs to implement this feature.

I was doing some file management, copying selected files from one drive to another. Really what I wanted is a move. I'm copying temporary files off my hard drive onto a memory stick.

In Windows, I can right-drag the items and I'll get a context menu where I can say copy -or- move. In OSX I can't do that, so every move becomes a copy-then-delete, two steps. It wasted a lot of time IMO.

(The lack of) cut and paste from finder is the same issue -- if I could cut files (delete them) and paste them somewhere else, it would achieve the same thing.

What about doing cmd-drag with the files? then you dont have to delete, seems a lot easier to me than right dragging and selecting a menu option. you dont even have to hold cmd, just make sure you are holding it when you let go of the mouse.

 

[natewsmith]

The thing that bugs me is when I'm using my mouse and it seems to shoot off to the corner or goes down on and swiftly moves across my dock at the bottom and deletes applications that I've put there.

Nate

 

[Digital Skunk]

The thing that bugs me is when I'm using my mouse and it seems to shoot off to the corner or goes down on and swiftly moves across my dock at the bottom and deletes applications that I've put there.

Nate

Very noteworthy flaw in OS X. Definitely not user error and definitely something that has been happening since OS X came to fruition. I would love Apple to fix that bug once and for all, or find out what possible 3rd party app is causing that to happen.

Thanks for not whining about childish problems with OS X and THANKS A BUNCH for not complaining about your inability to use the OS correctly.

 

[kuwisdelu]

Very noteworthy flaw in OS X. Definitely not user error and definitely something that has been happening since OS X came to fruition. I would love Apple to fix that bug once and for all, or find out what possible 3rd party app is causing that to happen.

I think it's more likely a problem with Apple's mouse. I've never once had that problem with my MacBook's trackpad. I do remember something like that happening last time I used my friend's iMac, though.

 

[Mac.]

Menu bar transparency on Leopard.

There should be an option to have it 100% FULL WHITE (Tiger)

 

[clevin]

Menu bar transparency on Leopard.

There should be an option to have it 100% FULL WHITE (Tiger)

i was under the impression that you can?

 

[Digital Skunk]

I think it's more likely a problem with Apple's mouse. I've never once had that problem with my MacBook's trackpad. I do remember something like that happening last time I used my friend's iMac, though.

It doesn't happen that often, but it has happened with my MacBook Pro and PowerMac G5, both trackpad and mice. It's not that big of a deal for me, it just happens and i have a feeling that it's a minor software issue.

 

[TBi]

What about doing cmd-drag with the files? then you dont have to delete, seems a lot easier to me than right dragging and selecting a menu option. you dont even have to hold cmd, just make sure you are holding it when you let go of the mouse.

Why right drag when you could command-x, command-v it. You don't even need to touch the mouse, using command-` to switch between finder windows.

 

[macgruder]

Why right drag when you could command-x, command-v it. You don't even need to touch the mouse, using command-` to switch between finder windows.

Try this. Not exactly but close:
http://free.abracode.com/cmworkshop/
http://free.abracode.com/cmworkshop/quick_access.html
(a contextual menu to move files; I haven't try it for moving to other volume).

Note: I seem to remember that one of the worst bugs in OS X is if you move an object to another volume and the move fails midway through you lose the object. Better to copy and delete.

 

[DaveF]

If you were familiar with how Mac works (and always worked), you would not say bad things about 1 button mouse. I would actually like to buy one now, but I can't find it anywhere. Most apps in Macs dont have the contextual menu. In Windows, on the other hand, most of the actions are done with this menu. Same operations on Macs are mostly done by KB shortcuts, which is a faster way of doing things anyway.

I never owned a PC, in all 10 years I'm using computers, all I had were Macs. And in these 10 years I have never used the contextual menu, except for occasionally using the "save file to desktop" command in Safari, and "Compress <files>" in OS X .4 and .5 Finder. My left hand is on the keyboard most of the time because I use a lot of hotkeys, so having right mouse button is needless.

As for 1 button on trackpads, its actually better than 2. You dont have to aim to press the certain button. If you want right click, just place another finger on the trackpad and press the button, again, anywhere on the button, no need to aim.

BTW, you are the first person who needs a 3rd mouse button I've met O_O

Your lack of experience with PCs shows. Windows has long had substantially more keyboard control features than the Mac, so far as I can tell. The entire computer can be used by keyboard; every menu option can be performed by keyboard; I've not seen this possible on the Mac. I still struggle some in my switch to overcome the loss of some keyboard shortcuts in office applications. Moreover, an important set of shortcuts are disabled by default in OS X and must be specifically turned on through the Universal Access (?) settings. The Mac is definitely not setup for serious keyboard jockeys. I won't argue that this is good or bad, it's just so. (* I'll add the caveat that OS X has the remarkable ability to customize keyboard shortcuts for specific items in specific apps. I used this to add a missing shortcut in iMovie 08. With enough effort, OS X could be fully customized by a user to have in ways more keyboard shortcut power than in Windows. But by default, Windows has an exhaustive keyboard shortcut system.)

As for right-click, I've found Mac programs use them throughout.

And I'm the second person you know with a multi-button mouse: I have a MX Revolution with about 9 buttons: for Right & Left click, 4-way Scroll, Expose Windows, Expose Desktop, Dashboard, Volume control, and web-page Forward & Backward. I don't know how people survive with less than four buttons and scroll wheel (barbarism! )

 

[Digital Skunk]

Your lack of experience with PCs shows. Windows has long had substantially more keyboard control features than the Mac, so far as I can tell. The entire computer can be used by keyboard; every menu option can be performed by keyboard; I've not seen this possible on the Mac. I still struggle some in my switch to overcome the loss of some keyboard shortcuts in office applications. Moreover, an important set of shortcuts are disabled by default in OS X and must be specifically turned on through the Universal Access (?) settings. The Mac is definitely not setup for serious keyboard jockeys. I won't argue that this is good or bad, it's just so. (* I'll add the caveat that OS X has the remarkable ability to customize keyboard shortcuts for specific items in specific apps. I used this to add a missing shortcut in iMovie 08. With enough effort, OS X could be fully customized by a user to have in ways more keyboard shortcut power than in Windows. But by default, Windows has an exhaustive keyboard shortcut system.)

As for right-click, I've found Mac programs use them throughout.

And I'm the second person you know with a multi-button mouse: I have a MX Revolution with about 9 buttons: for Right & Left click, 4-way Scroll, Expose Windows, Expose Desktop, Dashboard, Volume control, and web-page Forward & Backward. I don't know how people survive with less than four buttons and scroll wheel (barbarism! )

Actually I used to be a Windows junkie and I have found that Windows has less useful shortcuts that Mac OS X. There are some shortcuts in Windows that are very different and specific that Mac OS X does differently but when you compare the shortcut list for just the OS features Windows has less, and a few that are just less useful than Mac OS X.

Mac OS X has 106 shortcuts specifically for the OS, not including iLife Apps, help menus, etc. Windows has short cuts for resizing the icons, and features that mimic Expose. It's really convoluted. And you can access everything in Mac OS X through the keyboard.

The only way I have survived without a 10 button mouse was to move the mouse around the screen and click.

 

[SimonMW]

This is a loooooooong thread so I don't know if anyone will bother to read my little reply.

I'm new to the Mac. I like most things much better than Windows (like the fact that I can turn it on and it will work!)

However I have do have minor niggles with OSX. The first is that I would like to be able to resize the window from any size or corner. There was one situation not so long back where a program window ended up bigger than the screen. I couldn't resize it easily because I couldn't actually get to the resize corner. Further more on a large monitor such as the 30" Cinema Display it is sometimes nice not to have to move the mouse all the way to the other side of the screen to resize the window.

Another irritation of mine is that the Finder and other file dialogues don't have a 'go up a directory' option. Sometimes if I save a file the program takes me to the last folder that I accessed, which sometimes is already a few folders deep. Because I can't go up a directory I have to hope that one of the other directories I accessed recently is nearer to where I want, or I have to go to the root level and work my way down again. How complicated can it be to add an option to go up a folder level?!