Maybe back when AppleWorks came free with a Mac, but my last PC with Windows didn't come with any free office suite.
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Things you HATE about Macs...
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Maybe back when AppleWorks came free with a Mac, but my last PC with Windows didn't come with any free office suite.
Go on the Dell website right now and check it out.
All their computers come with Works.
Okay.... That's a dell.... Not Microsoft windows coming with those applications.
and if you buy your mac online you can configure it to come with iWork preinstalled. A lot of people don't need word processors in fact I'd bet that 90% of people don't need a word processor like Microsoft Word, they just think they do. But if you're not publishing your work in a magazine or inserting a lot of tables text edit is plenty.
Strange. They must have changed that, considering my last PC was a Dell. But I'm sure you're still paying for it somewhere in there... You just can't see it.
You have a point, but if you look at the numbers, Windows nerds are a miniscule proportion of the billions of people who use Windows and don't swoon in front of their computers.
The most depressing aspect of forums for Macs is having to wade through all the ridiculous fanboy excuses any time someone posts a problem.
You don't see that sort of behavior on Windows newsgroups.
You don't see Windows ads trying to pump up their system by ridiculing other systems.
There's nothing magical about Macs or PCs. They each have their strengths and weaknesses.
I use both because it suits me and the work I do.
True, but I was just pointing out that they do exist, albeit in smaller percentages. Although as far as actual numbers go, considering the small market share that OS X has, I'd imagine the actual numbers are probably quite similar.
Actually, it couldn't be farther from the truth. The Apple menu changes context with every app. And, in my viewpoint, the applications installed on the system have a lot to do with the underlying OS -- that's why I'm using the OS.
Now, to be fair, let's go back and look at the Apple menu pre-OSX. If I remember correctly, the active apps were in a scrolling list or dropdown on the right of the Apple menu. That was awkward too. So IMO the dock came about becaue Apple removed application launching and task management (save the force quit) from the Apple menu, and threw all that functionality into a self-contradicting thing that became the dock.
Two different complaints.
First, about not having all the apps. I use quicksilver, I use spotlight, but that only helps if you remember the name of the app you want. I don't know about you, but I'm downloading new apps all the time to do little tasks and I don't always remember their names... What was the name of that bittorrent client? What was the name of that MPEG editor? That's why I'd like an application menu.
Second, like the dock the Start menu is at a high level a contradiction, a jumbling place to put "everything". But then after that, gasp, it actually starts making more sense than OSX. The program shortcuts are kept under "all programs" in their own area, common apps are on the left. Running apps and explorer windows are on the task bar (regardless of whether they are minimized or not), with "resident" apps on the far right of the task bar. Ironically, this is more organized than the OSX approach.
In OSX, the program shortcuts (and only SOME of the program shortcuts) are there on the dock, along with running programs. Because of this jumble, running apps have a triangle under them. Whaaaaa? Even worse, if an app is run that is NOT a shortcut on the dock, then it gets added to the dock. Whaaa? Then you have a divider in the middle of a dock (dividing the shortuct/running app half from the folder shortcut/minimized window/trash half). Now, why do minimized app windows belong with folder shortcuts on the right of the dock? Answer: they don't, they're just thrown in the box. Then throw in the trash can (why is this not on the desktop anymore?) The whole dock is basically Apple's junk drawer. Oh, and I forgot the "resident app" stuff that is in the far right of the Windows task bar. That stuff is still in the right of the Apple menu -- clock, wifi, bluetooth, etc.
Now granted, so is Microsoft's Start menu, but at least that junk drawer has dividers that kind of start making limited sense.
Yeah, I use that trick. Leopard made it a little more painful when they removed the list view and forced the stack view.
Again, that's great if you know the name of the app you're looking for. And while it's great for geeks, aren't we turning back the clock on the GUI by doing this? You know, recognizing something by an icon? This is a command line geek luxury that's not that far removed from Unix autocomplete.
I hate when I minimize an app, then want it back I by habit click on the icon in the dock or press Command-Tab. Nothing ever happens, you have to go to the right bottom of the dock and click on the minimized icon to show it (or press the hot key for it). I would just think when you switch to an app it should automatically show the minimized window if it is the only window open.
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The Apple menu in OS X never changes, except for the Recent items, but thats expected.
Try pressing control + F3 and then go left until you hit your window and then hit return.
IMO, the reason minimized apps don't appear to make any sense in the dock is because Apple doesn't want you minimizing apps in the first place. Honestly, I'm not really sure why people still minimize windows to begin with. It seems pretty old fashioned to me when we have more advanced controls over out windows like Hide, Spaces, and Expose. If it were up to me, I'd just get rid of the minimize function at all. Perhaps that would make the dock a little less confusing to you all? 
Minimize is there to control visual and interface clutter. Hide affects the entire application. It can't be used to selectively rid the screen of a few of an application's windows. I use minimize on occaision to hide Mail while keeping the email I'm writing at the fore. It's handy with another app too -- maybe Excel. There are some applications where clicking on any window brings all of its windows to the top. This is annoying if you just want the window you clicked on top, so you can still see other windows of other applications.IMO, the reason minimized apps don't appear to make any sense in the dock is because Apple doesn't want you minimizing apps in the first place. Honestly, I'm not really sure why people still minimize windows to begin with. It seems pretty old fashioned to me when we have more advanced controls over out windows like Hide, Spaces, and Expose. If it were up to me, I'd just get rid of the minimize function at all. Perhaps that would make the dock a little less confusing to you all?
OS X's implementation is not very useful. I liked the old NeXT method, where miniaturized windows tiled on the desktop as icons. No smooshing of Dock icons.
How? The first click could send the window to "zoomed" state, so the button would be somewhere else. You wouldn't be able to get in a second click.
There could be a third-of-a-second delay or something. Not that hard.
Didn't this come up on the iPhone somehow?
That is one thing that I do like, because it is easy to tell the computer's status. (Of course, most PCs have an indicator, too)
I hope they don't get rid of the indicator on future MBPs
A click+hold would work (much like bringing up the contextual menu for the Dock), but again, I think it's unnecessary because the Green button is quite powerful and useful as it is; it just requires a shift in paradigm.
The green button issue is one thing (should definitely be addressed), but the red button will always be that way for better or worse (which there are both sides to). Also, unlike green which is new with Mac OS X, close has always worked that way; simply closed the window. I propose that a double click for Red should quit.
What don't you (and BV, DSkunk, and others) get about about the fact that (many) people want a button to go full screen? (BTW, I'd be interested in a poll about it...)
I don't understand why you keep telling us the green is fine as is. We've tried green as is, we know what it does right now, we understand why it does it and the logic behind it (well, some of us), and we don't like it. We want an option to go full screen, just like in Windows, with a single action--- and not have to manually resize, whether that be a button, setting, hold-click, alt-click, ctrl-click, double click, tap click, whatever... it needs to be addressed. Period.
I understand what you're saying but it's like any other feature that is a minority request. Not gonna happen, especially since it's borderline useless now, and only will continue to become less and less useless as displays grow larger and more dense. 'Many' people probably actually equates to a very, very small percentage.
I think I am beginning to understand the division on the issue. I believe the people who like the green button the way it is have large desktop monitors. DSkunk said he has a 30" monitor. Of course one doesn't need Safari maximized on a screen that big. However, the fact of the matter is Apple's growth has been, and will continue to be far and away, in the notebook arena. Because Apple only makes one version of the client OS (which I think we all can say we LOVE) they need to accommodate notebook users with a "traditional" maximize. On my 15.4" screen, I want most of my programs maximized. I don't want an odd 3" wide vertically oriented rectangle.
I have a 15.4" and no external and I don't see the need for maximization. Almost every window doesn't need to be maximized (with the possible exception of photo software). If you do have that occasional program that needs a full sized window, just drag out the corners once and be done with it.
The answer to your question is because it's been that way since Mac OS system 7. Long time Mac users like it this way and that's the way a Mac runs. All you noob so-called switchers are not truly switchers if you can't move on. Why should it be any different now? BTW refrain from saying, I want the Mac to work "JUST LIKE IN WINDOWS", it's quite annoying. Windows is just a click away if you need to work in the "Windows Way".
Turn it around, if people were switching from the Mac OS to Windows and a bunch of Mac users are pissed because Windows doesn't do things "LIKE MAC" existing Windows users would gives us our walking papers and tell us to go back to our Macs.
There, sorry for being a bit harsh but you are not accepting change and you shouldn't bash existing Mac users for liking the way the system already is.
You can try this if you need a maximize button on safari, no install required.
http://www.jydesign.com/safari/
The debate on the green zoom button is getting a little rediculous. There is no point in having a button make a window full screen. I can't think of a single instance where I would want to have my whole screen taken up by one window, and if such a time arises I can live with dragging out the edge.
The only thing that Windows does better with the three buttons for window management is the consistency in the maximize button. I hate that in just about every application the zoom button does something different, and there is no way it indicates if it's 'zoomed in' or 'zoomed out'
Really I see no point in the minimize button, or the zoom button. the little red close button is enough for me.
The only thing that Windows does better with the three buttons for window management is the consistency in the maximize button. I hate that in just about every application the zoom button does something different, and there is no way it indicates if it's 'zoomed in' or 'zoomed out'
Really I see no point in the minimize button, or the zoom button. the little red close button is enough for me.
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