Thinking of cancelling new M1 MacBook Pro order due to notch

[Timmy D]

I have both at 13" M1 and the 16" M1. the size and build of the 16" is amazing. when I pick it up and carry around it feels like nothing will happen to it. now the 13" on the other hand just seems flimsy it tends to wrap a bit depending on how I carry it. I still love it but the new direction is great. for the price you want a solid build IMO

 

[Hankster]

Amazing the few people who want to keep this thread alive - LOL.

 

[booksbooks]

It’s only technically superior if there’s no need for other ports. But there’s a lot of devices and cables in the world that don’t have USB-C on one end, let alone two, which is why 2016-2021 has been dongle-town for so many folks.

USB4 especially is great, has a lot of capability, basically brings Thunderbolt 3 to every USB-C port, but… USB-C as a port is WAY overloaded. There’s a ton of cables with USB-C connectors on one or both ends and it’s a real mystery what’s going on with it. Does it support Thunderbolt 4? Thunderbolt 3? Sure, it supports USB data transfer, but at what speed? Some USB-C cables only support USB2 data speeds. USB PD? What version? Kind of a mess, and just a bigger, messier version of the old Thunderbolt 2 vs Mini-DisplayPort confusion. The best thing about USB-C is it’s reversible. After that… it’s a real hodge-podge.

Not that HDMI is much better in that regard, with its myriad versions of cables supporting varying bandwidths. The truth is basically every connector on modern laptops sucks in one way or another right now.

Dude, seriously... if your line of reasoning applied to the industry we would still be using Apple Desktop Bus port (ADP). Time to move on... and leaders do that. They move on. They lead, and get people to come with them. They disrupt. This is not any of that but going backwards.

 

[killmoms]

Dude, seriously... if your line of reasoning applied to the industry we would still be using Apple Desktop Bus port (ADP). Time to move on... and leaders do that. They move on. They lead, and get people to come with them. They disrupt. This is not any of that but going backwards.

Now that’s a straw man for sure. That’s neither what I said, nor what I implied. I’m just pointing out that USB-C is only “the one port to end all other ports” if you ignore the fact that there’s 20 different cables, all of which support varying bandwidths/capabilities and none of which are easy to tell apart, least of all by the connector. If every USB4 cable made supported the full suite of USB4 capabilities… it’d still be part of the same confusing mess, because it shares its connector with USB-C and Thunderbolt 3/4.

I don’t think old ports are better full stop, but I don’t think new ports are Tech Jesus come to save us all either. And, like it or not, there’s a whole tech industry and vast market Apple’s selling into full of perfectly good peripherals of a wide variety that already exist and work perfectly fine that… don’t use USB-C, or any of its connector-brethren protocols.

 

[booksbooks]

Now that’s a straw man for sure. That’s neither what I said, nor what I implied. I’m just pointing out that USB-C is only “the one port to end all other ports” if you ignore the fact that there’s 20 different cables, all of which support varying bandwidths/capabilities and none of which are easy to tell apart, least of all by the connector. If every USB4 cable made supported the full suite of USB4 capabilities… it’d still be part of the same confusing mess, because it shares its connector with USB-C and Thunderbolt 3/4.

I don’t think old ports are better full stop, but I don’t think new ports are Tech Jesus come to save us all either. And, like it or not, there’s a whole tech industry and vast market Apple’s selling into full of perfectly good peripherals of a wide variety that already exist and work perfectly fine that… don’t use USB-C, or any of its connector-brethren protocols.

Because of USB C, I can use one cable that charges my laptop, and transmits audio and video to a USB C monitor. The data transfer speeds are basically second to none. The port works with an endless array of peripherals. None of this stuff is even a discussion anymore.

 

[chikorita157]

I don't know why people make a big deal of the notch. Although I think it's implementation is flawed with overflowing menu items, there are work arounds if you really don't like it. SwitchResX allows you to switch the resolution to one that does not show the notch as seen here.

Still, I think the new 2021 MacBook Pros are great machines, better than my 2018 MacBook Pro so far.

 

[Beau10]

I don't know why people make a big deal of the notch. Although I think it's implementation is flawed with overflowing menu items, there are work arounds if you really don't like it. SwitchResX allows you to switch the resolution to one that does not show the notch as seen here.

View attachment 1906114View attachment 1906115
Still, I think the new 2021 MacBook Pros are great machines, better than my 2018 MacBook Pro so far.

Just use TopNotch or the like. No need to throw away new screen real estate.

 

[chikorita157]

Just use TopNotch or the like. No need to throw away new screen real estate.

I know that is an option, but it still have limitation the notch has with overflowing menu items. I don't mind the loss of space, since it's negligible anyway and this gives the behavior like the old MacBook Pros.

 

[Beau10]

I know that is an option, but it still have limitation the notch has with overflowing menu items. I don't mind the loss of space, since it's negligible anyway and this gives the behavior like the old MacBook Pros.

Got it, do not have apps with menus that deep. Apple will surely fix that in the next OS patch.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Because of USB C, I can use one cable that charges my laptop, and transmits audio and video to a USB C monitor. The data transfer speeds are basically second to none. The port works with an endless array of peripherals. None of this stuff is even a discussion anymore.

That's true for you. It's not true for me.

I've been saying what killmoms has been saying for quite some time. Overall, by trying to be the one connection to end all other connections they have spawned too many variations/optional standards, and we're barely into USB-C's life cycle. It's a fragile, 24-contact miniature connector that has to dedicate eight of those contacts (four positive voltage, four ground) to delivering the current necessary to charge large devices like laptops at high speed. I find very little elegance to the system "under the hood."

Who cares if there's only one connector type? Because of its various options there's no assurance that a particular port or cable equipped with that "universal" USB-C connector will actually do what you hope it will do.

This is not about moving forward as technology evolves. Traditionally, when technology evolves the industry moves to a new connector in order to delineate between old capabilities and new. That's going to be one of the traps of USB-C. The Connector To End All Other Connectors will mentally box the industry into making that old dog do more and more new tricks, while older equipment with the same connector will be incapable of doing those new tricks. That's not simplification, that's just confusion that will build over time. And the EU's efforts to make that connector the power/charging standard for mobile devices will further entrench that connector, likely long after it has outlived its usefulness. (There's no way you could have connected an external display to an iPad Pro using the micro-USB connector the EU had previously tried to mandate. In ten more years, what might we want to connect to an iPad that USB-C doesn't allow?)

"Universal" connectors and cables are fine when we're doing something simple, like distributing 110/220 volts AC to lamps and appliances. There's no chance at this point that either the line voltage or AC frequency is going to change. But data communications speeds? Video standards? They're not at a standstill, and not likely to be for quite some time.

Having a single port/connector/cable for power and data communications is a seductive concept and is innovative on its face, but it discourages future innovation by imposing constraints that history shows will likely to have to be completely overhauled every 10-15 years.

 

[booksbooks]

It has been demonstrated that this new MBP is lacking in its camera fearures, yet has a large camera notch. It has been demonstrated that more advanced technology exists to have a 1080 p camera hidden under the screen but Apple has thus far failed to commercialize it in their products.

And it has been demonstrated that the MBP is materially heavier and thicker than previous similar sized MBPs, which does not square away with Apple’s new silicon marketing of having such efficient chips.

 

[booksbooks]

That's true for you. It's not true for me.

I've been saying what killmoms has been saying for quite some time. Overall, by trying to be the one connection to end all other connections they have spawned too many variations/optional standards, and we're barely into USB-C's life cycle. It's a fragile, 24-contact miniature connector that has to dedicate eight of those contacts (four positive voltage, four ground) to delivering the current necessary to charge large devices like laptops at high speed. I find very little elegance to the system "under the hood."

Who cares if there's only one connector type? Because of its various options there's no assurance that a particular port or cable equipped with that "universal" USB-C connector will actually do what you hope it will do.

This is not about moving forward as technology evolves. Traditionally, when technology evolves the industry moves to a new connector in order to delineate between old capabilities and new. That's going to be one of the traps of USB-C. The Connector To End All Other Connectors will mentally box the industry into making that old dog do more and more new tricks, while older equipment with the same connector will be incapable of doing those new tricks. That's not simplification, that's just confusion that will build over time. And the EU's efforts to make that connector the power/charging standard for mobile devices will further entrench that connector, likely long after it has outlived its usefulness. (There's no way you could have connected an external display to an iPad Pro using the micro-USB connector the EU had previously tried to mandate. In ten more years, what might we want to connect to an iPad that USB-C doesn't allow?)

"Universal" connectors and cables are fine when we're doing something simple, like distributing 110/220 volts AC to lamps and appliances. There's no chance at this point that either the line voltage or AC frequency is going to change. But data communications speeds? Video standards? They're not at a standstill, and not likely to be for quite some time.

Having a single port/connector/cable for power and data communications is a seductive concept and is innovative on its face, but it discourages future innovation by imposing constraints that history shows will likely to have to be completely overhauled every 10-15 years.

In all of this text there isn’t really anything tangible being said. Bottom line is USB C beats effectively everything. This is not an argument but a fact. Think back to 15 years ago what USB C was like. You could connect a printer with it, or a USB based CD burner, or a platter based external hard drive. These latter hard drives were flakey as hell especially the ones with no power relying on USB to supply it.

Fast forward to today and USB C is now a very small and thin connector that with just one cable connected to a laptop can drive a large 5k monitor with audio and video and charge the laptop at the same time.

It’s data transfer speeds are basically second to none. I can plug an external HD USB C into the iPad then plug it into the MBP. A $50 dongle allows for USB C to SD Card reading. A simple look online and in the forums here shows people struggling to have SD Cards read by the internal SD card reader on the MBP because it’s flakey as usual. But the USB C dongle enables the cards to work perfectly…

These other legacy ports have no reason to exist as USB C is superior.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

In all of this text there isn’t really anything tangible being said. Bottom line is USB C beats effectively everything. This is not an argument but a fact. Think back to 15 years ago what USB C was like. You could connect a printer with it, or a USB based CD burner, or a platter based external hard drive. These latter hard drives were flakey as hell especially the ones with no power relying on USB to supply it.

Fast forward to today and USB C is now a very small and thin connector that with just one cable connected to a laptop can drive a large 5k monitor with audio and video and charge the laptop at the same time.

It’s data transfer speeds are basically second to none. I can plug an external HD USB C into the iPad then plug it into the MBP. A $50 dongle allows for USB C to SD Card reading. A simple look online and in the forums here shows people struggling to have SD Cards read by the internal SD card reader on the MBP because it’s flakey as usual. But the USB C dongle enables the cards to work perfectly…

These other legacy ports have no reason to exist as USB C is superior.

You're focused on the present, which obviously works very well for you.

I'm writing about the future, which is based on my nearly 50 years of engineering and technical experience. Two different perspectives. Maybe there's nothing "tangible" to you about what I've said, but it's all too real to me.

You're talking about how USB-C has surpassed/outmoded previous connections. Some of your examples are obvious - USB-A did not have the capabilities to connect a computer to a display, USB-C does. Although not every USB-C port is capable of delivering 6K video to a 6K display; not every USB-C port delivers Thunderbolt/USB4.

Other statements you've made have less to do with the capabilities of USB-C than the basic reality that connectors wear out/fail over the course of time. Has an internal SD reader become flakey? Then replacing the internal reader with a brand-new external reader will fix the problem for now. It doesn't matter whether we replace it with a USB-A reader (I have one of those) or an external USB-C reader (you have one of those). Either way, the card readers read the cards. The only question is matching the type of connector on the external reader to the ports on the equipment we own.

However, over time even those external readers are likely to become flakey, and the USB-C (or USB-A) port into which we plug that connector is also subject to wear and can also become flakey. Old stuff fails. Take it from an old guy.

Yeah, legacy ports are legacy ports, and at some point they fade into the sunset. It's been a long time since I've owned a computer with an RS-232 serial port with a DB-9 connector. However, RS-232 is still supported in USB-C (just as it was in USB-A), only the connector has changed over the years. I'm willing to predict that someday USB-C will also become a legacy port. It may have a longer run than some ports of the past, but I don't expect time to stand still. The only constant is change.

 

[booksbooks]

You're focused on the present, which obviously works very well for you.

I'm writing about the future, which is based on my nearly 50 years of engineering and technical experience. Two different perspectives. Maybe there's nothing "tangible" to you about what I've said, but it's all too real to me.

You're talking about how USB-C has surpassed/outmoded previous connections. Some of your examples are obvious - USB-A did not have the capabilities to connect a computer to a display, USB-C does. Although not every USB-C port is capable of delivering 6K video to a 6K display; not every USB-C port delivers Thunderbolt/USB4.

Other statements you've made have less to do with the capabilities of USB-C than the basic reality that connectors wear out/fail over the course of time. Has an internal SD reader become flakey? Then replacing the internal reader with a brand-new external reader will fix the problem for now. It doesn't matter whether we replace it with a USB-A reader (I have one of those) or an external USB-C reader (you have one of those). Either way, the card readers read the cards. The only question is matching the type of connector on the external reader to the ports on the equipment we own.

However, over time even those external readers are likely to become flakey, and the USB-C (or USB-A) port into which we plug that connector is also subject to wear and can also become flakey. Old stuff fails. Take it from an old guy.

Yeah, legacy ports are legacy ports, and at some point they fade into the sunset. It's been a long time since I've owned a computer with an RS-232 serial port with a DB-9 connector. However, RS-232 is still supported in USB-C (just as it was in USB-A), only the connector has changed over the years. I'm willing to predict that someday USB-C will also become a legacy port. It may have a longer run than some ports of the past, but I don't expect time to stand still. The only constant is change.

Dude you're not reading what I'm saying. The NEW MacBook Pros... people are struggling with the internal SD Card reader right now. Nothing to do with wear and tear. In the entire time I've had USB C Macs, I have literally not had one single issue which is insane. I cannot generalize from my experience but this is pretty remarkable.

How slow and flakey the SD Card reader is on the new MBP, and that the USB Dongle appears materially faster and more reliable:

SD Card slot on the $2500 MBP vs the $39 dongle USB-C to SD Card Reader...

SD Card slot on the $2500 MBP (14" M1 Pro) vs the $39 Apple dongle USB-C to SD Card Reader... Read/Write speeds MBP SD slot: 15/22 MB/s $39 Dongle attached via USB-C: 80/86 MB/s

forums.macrumors.com

14" and 16" M1 Pro SD Card Slot Problems

Anybody else having issues with the SD card reader on the new MBP? I have several SD cards that the MBP does not recognize but when using Apple's USB-C SD Card reader with the same cards the MBP recognizes them no problem. Any ideas?

forums.macrumors.com

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