'This American Life' Retracts Show on Foxconn Working Conditions over Fabricated Claims

[joepunk]

His show is/was theatre and should not have been looked at as journalism because he is an "actor" and not a journalist.

I think that when he was on the TAL segment he had the opportunity to and failed to say that his monologue theatre show was full of dramatic license. He had an opportunity to say that this is theatre, that he is not a journalist and parts or most of the show is embellished with added drama in order to tell an interesting story to capture an audience.

He didn't do that. Maybe he will make another monologue about his miss adventures.

 

[jonnysods]

So all artists are nothing more than liars?

Expand, discuss.

Did I say that all artists are liars?

If I say I'm telling the truth but I'm fabricating information for artistic expression, can I say that my content is truthful and my information has integrity?

He can have integrity as an actor for sure, or an artist, but he cannot claim integrity with the truthful content of his content.

 

[shawnce]

He didn't do that. Maybe he will make another monologue about his miss adventures.

TRUTH
{the heart is a million little pieces above all things}

TRUTH follows the fictional and nonfictional stories of James Frey's (author of A Million Little Pieces) self-destruction, the sordid and shocking tale of J.T. LeRoy, (The Heart Is Deceitful Above All Things) a world-famous transsexual author whom the world learned ultimately didn't exist, and Fernando Pessoa, a Portuguese poet whose great works were written by warring multiple personalities inside his head. These stories are reflected against an autobiographical accounting of Daisey's own history of lying and telling the truth in an attempt to illuminate the uncertain landscape of the emotionally true, the literally true, and the constant struggle to speak the truth.

(search for truth on http://mikedaisey.blogspot.com/p/monologues.html)

 

[gnasher729]

At the end of the day, Apple re-doubled their efforts to make sure the workers in their Asian factories are treated ethically and decently. Did Mike Daisey's piece play some part in that decision? I don't know - but I'd say it had at least something to do with it. Just as This American Life's piece probably gave some impetus to the New York Times "iEconomy" series.

The Mike Daisey story left Ira Glass with some egg on his face. He'll get over it. But the Mike Daisey story also led to Apple signing up for Fair Labor Association inspections of Foxconn factories. If this prevents even one Chinese worker from being harmed or abused - then I'd find it very hard to condemn Mike Daisy, or This American Life for their mistakes.

I am appalled by your attitude. Apple has for at least four years conducted inspections at factories and has worked to improve conditions for workers. And you are trying to make it look as if this was in any way due to this lying slimebag.

 

[charlituna]

No matter where the facts actually lie about the manufacturing facilities, this Daisey character seems like he's in it to make a buck and a name for himself.

very much.

I love that he talks about a connection between our devices and the conditions they are made in but he's lied about those conditions. Are they really 'brutal' at all. He tries to make out like workers go days without sleep, are chained to the line standing up, get no food, are forced to piss themselves because they don't get breaks, are fed little to nothing while they are working in a smog pit in their underwear or such.

yes the work is rote and boring and yes they live in dorms (if they choose to do so for the cheap rent). but they can leave any time they want and they are't being whipped etc from what we have seen. Daisey talks about armed guards but they are likely more merely security details walking the gates to keep thieves out, not to keep the workers in. Given the items they are making it would make sense. But Daisey sells tickets making you think it is his version of the truth

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More a name than a buck. If he was soley after money he wouldn't have offered his monologue for free (to download) on his website.

its advertising. You see a half ass show and get all riled up from the facts and you are more likely to buy tickets to see the 'real' thing. Because Daisey much be a better performer since it is his material.

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BUSTED! The Apple goon squad will be keeping a close eye on him for sure.

or not. Tim Cook was asked if he had seen the show or planned to and he basically said that he didn't care one bit to see it because he knows the real Steve Jobs and the real Apple. I suspect most of Apple feels the same and would rather not hear the name Mike Daisey or be asked about it.

To them he's a forum troll, if you play his game you have lost. Best to ignore him. Focus your attention on important things, like continuing to improve products, worker conditions both internal and partner, content contracts and so on

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Well welcome to the new "journalism" - blogs, sites like these, etc are all "news" sites - but most don't verify information direct from the source for every article. Mainstream media is just as guilty too.

Yes but they are pretty open about the 'unverified' part.

Daisey was writing a play but he positioned it as based on first hand truth he gained himself. He marketed it that way, he sold tickets based off that detail. And he lied.

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and lead to the Nightline investigation which lead to Apple paying closer attention to their own supplier.

Apple has been paying attention for way longer than Daisey or Nightline were in the picture. Hell Apple based invited Nightline to come in and take a look around just because they knew how false the claims were. If they had actually had anything to hide they would have said they couldn't let anyone in for security reasons and Foxconn would have to abide by that because such controls are part of the contract.

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you know, he says he is proud that his work brought this stuff to light.

Which is another lie. He didn't bring anything to light. all these efforts were started ages ago.

He is just using a situation that folks were already riled up about to get attention and a little money. But he didn't affect any change etc himself anymore than Sumofus and change.org have with their petitions and protests.

 

[bilboa]

Hope the true parts of his story don't get ignored

I hope that in all the attention on the fabricated parts of his story, the parts of it that are true don't get ignored also. Based in other investigations I've read of Foxconn and other Chinese manufacturers, the gist of what he said is true even if he made up some details to make his story more dramatic. I'm worried this will just end up being fodder for all the apologists for slave labor conditions in other countries.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Did I say that all artists are liars?

If I say I'm telling the truth but I'm fabricating information for artistic expression, can I say that my content is truthful and my information has integrity?

He can have integrity as an actor for sure, or an artist, but he cannot claim integrity with the truthful content of his content.

Yes, you did. You said a person can't have any integrity if they are using artistic license, and since that's exactly what artists do, yes you did. In fact you just said it again, with a possible and sort of strange added exception for actors.

 

[M87]

Art is a wonderful thing, but what this guy did is called lying. He is using "artistic license" as a shield. He is a coward.

 

[mad cow disease]

Is his defense, he's not saying this is completely factual. I don't know why they need to lead an investigation into why they didn't investigate in the first place. It was This American Life's job to do that. So the story should really be about how that process failed.

At no point has Daisey claimed his work was a work of journalism. If you want some more context, Daisey was on MSNBC's Up! with Chris Hayes this past weekend, talking about his work. Here's a clip:

http://UpwithChrisHayes.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/16/10721591-art-truth-and-mike-daisey

I'm a big fan of This American Life– so I'm not looking to throw pie in their face. But this was, indeed, a screw up on THEIR part.

Did you actually watch the whole segment? Doesn't sound like you did.

Daisey may never have claimed to be a journalist, but he certainly didn't stand up and say, "Whoa! This isn't all fact" when journalists came to him and interpreted the events that he claims to have witnessed (i.e. facts) which were in fact fabricated (i.e. lies) as things that really happened. Chris Hayes even says at the beginning that he is "learning" new information from non-journalistic sources like Daisey's piece.

Nor did he demure when he was called upon to write opinion/editorial pieces, do interviews (assuming he possessed intimate knowledge on the matter), and cash in on the buzz that his "work of art" generated. You may not think he has "lied," but not saying anything while you know people are misinterpreting around you is sometimes just as abhorrent as lying. Particularly when you stand to gain financially from it - and it's even more reprehensible when you play with peoples' emotions and goodwill in the way he did. By toying with peoples' emotions carelessly, Daisey stands to have done more harm in the long term contrary to his grandiose claims of having improved worker conditions. Worthwhile future attempts in the same way to recruit consumer outrage with heartstring-tugging stories stand to flop as a result of his careless profiteering.

Daisey can try to hide behind the cloak of "I'm an artist, artistic license!" The only problem is that he's become too big to do that (figuratively and literally). Ira Glass really put the screws to him in the TAL retraction piece and it was satisfying to find Daisey squirm around in the corner he's painted himself into.

 

[JAT]

The Mike Daisey story left Ira Glass with some egg on his face. He'll get over it. But the Mike Daisey story also led to Apple signing up for Fair Labor Association inspections of Foxconn factories. If this prevents even one Chinese worker from being harmed or abused - then I'd find it very hard to condemn Mike Daisy, or This American Life for their mistakes.

Oh, good. A new brand of journalism to come. Make something up about real people or companies. If you get lucky, it might be "ok".

What's the other side? Lynch mob kills some innocent guy for a fake crime that you reported?

Great plan.

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Yes, you did. You said a person can't have any integrity if they are using artistic license, and since that's exactly what artists do, yes you did. In fact you just said it again, with a possible and sort of strange added exception for actors.

I think that meant in a setting of reporting on actual people. I doubt he meant Cats or Pablo Picasso.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Yes, you did. You said a person can't have any integrity if they are using artistic license, and since that's exactly what artists do, yes you did. In fact you just said it again, with a possible and sort of strange added exception for actors.

It seems you are basing it on the fact his monologe show is theater meant for entertainment or art.

But the fact is he has been going all around on the talk show circuit touting what he said as true and factual. Doing this outside of his show is not artistic, but deceiving and manipulative, done to make him more money which probably none go to these poor workers who he says are so exploited.

 

[IJ Reilly]

It seems you are basing it on the fact his monologe show is theater meant for entertainment or art.

But the fact is he has been going all around on the talk show circuit touting what he said as true and factual. Doing this outside of his show is not artistic, but deceiving and manipulative, done to make him more money which probably none go to these poor workers who he says are so exploited.

Theater is exactly what it is. He's being been beforming this monologue on stage for some time. In fact TAL merely excerpted a portion of his stage performance for their program. Now they pretend to be shocked, shocked to find out that this theartrical piece is theater. How wimpy can they get? Not much more, you'd think -- until you take into consideration that most of what TAL has broadcast over the years qualifies as theater. It sure isn't journalism. Oh, and he did it for money. An artist making money. Shame on you, artist.

 

[eastercat]

Well, the problem is Daisey screwed it up for the people who are trying to improve conditions for abused factory workers.
If he actually gave a damn, then he wouldn't have denigrated this by lying on This American Life. If he cared, he would've been upfront about what happened and not delayed TAL finding out the truth.

I hope that in all the attention on the fabricated parts of his story, the parts of it that are true don't get ignored also. Based in other investigations I've read of Foxconn and other Chinese manufacturers, the gist of what he said is true even if he made up some details to make his story more dramatic. I'm worried this will just end up being fodder for all the apologists for slave labor conditions in other countries.

 

[Hornhonker]

I hope Apples legal dept look at this. Sue his ass off.

 

[Sardonick007]

Lard Brain

Somebody give him a side of beef and tell him to ****.

 

[gnasher729]

I hope that in all the attention on the fabricated parts of his story, the parts of it that are true don't get ignored also. Based in other investigations I've read of Foxconn and other Chinese manufacturers, the gist of what he said is true even if he made up some details to make his story more dramatic. I'm worried this will just end up being fodder for all the apologists for slave labor conditions in other countries.

What "other investigations"? There have been investigations, for example Apple's annual investigation, which clearly disproves the story. Whatever else you read, is tainted by the expectations they got from Daisey's performance. So Daisey said "I found 13, 14, 15 year old workers". "Investigation" says "there are 13, 14, 15 year old workers (because Daisey said so, but Foxconn was clearly hiding them away when we were looking).

Fact is: "The gist of what he said" is not true. 13, 14, 15 year old workers: Not true. Armed guards: Not true. A man who cannot work anymore because his hands are damaged by repetitive work: Not true. Poisoned workers whose hands are shaking and who cannot hold a glass of water: Not true.

 

[fat phil]

My show is a theatrical piece whose goal is to create a human connection between our gorgeous devices and the brutal circumstances from which they emerge. It uses a combination of fact, memoir, and dramatic license† to tell its story

†A creative term for lies, then.

 

[NutsNGum]

Well put. Seriously, you can't keep your job as a journalist if you lie, especially about something that affects so many people.

I hate to disagree with you there, chief, as much as I agree with your sentiment. But certain journalists are some of the most expert liars in the world, and retain their jobs week in-week out.

 

[linuxcooldude]

Theater is exactly what it is. He's being been beforming this monologue on stage for some time. In fact TAL merely excerpted a portion of his stage performance for their program. Now they pretend to be shocked, shocked to find out that this theartrical piece is theater. How wimpy can they get? Not much more, you'd think -- until you take into consideration that most of what TAL has broadcast over the years qualifies as theater. It sure isn't journalism. Oh, and he did it for money. An artist making money. Shame on you, artist.

Hes been on plenty of more tv shows then just TAL. I'm talking everything outside his regular stage show.

 

[eawmp1]

I just finished reading he transcript of the TAL show last night. http://podcast.thisamericanlife.org/special/TAL_460_Retraction_Transcript.pdf

1) I love all the opinion pieces written here on MacRumors prior to the retraction show airing. So many people here have rock solid opinions on what they have read/heard second, third, or worse-hand. This is where the damage those like Daisey is the most dangerous.

2) Daisey cannot seem to admit to lying. He may even have told his story so many times he himself may not be able to separate truth from fiction. However, he seems to be an opportunist, and once finding something that emotionally resonated with an audience, he has gone everywhere to advocate for his story.

3) The haters of NPR/PRI/TAL are likely ones who accept blindly what the "fair and balanced" "news" network dishes out. While Glass and crew did seem to try and vett the story, outright lies by Daisey limited the ability to get at the truth. He relayed enough truth to get the story run. The New York Times ad a similar issue with "reporter" Jayson Blair. In their defense, TAL, when the story began to fray at the edges, did dig deeper, and devoted a whole show to rectifying the situation.

4) As farmers flocked to cities in the U.S. at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century to escape the poverty of rural life for jobs in manufacturing, so now is happening in Asia. And by the standards of early U.S. manufacturing (which, if one studies any history, we're horrific by today's standards), I'd wager Foxconn conditions are markedly better. However, when applying modern U.S. manufacturing job standards to those in developing China, they do fall short. China, like the U.S. before, will in time, develop a strong workers' rights movement. Daisey is no modern-day Sinclair. Daisey, in telling his lies and being outed, ironically, may make it harder for advancement in the Chinese workers' rights.

 

[thewitt]

Yes, the liberals will do and say anything to attack American business. This is just another example of class warfare as supported by your party and their liberal press reporters. The fact that this guy was caught is just a side discussion. This happens every day, and most of you buy it lock stock and barrel.

Those of you who defended this guy and his network supporters should really be ashamed of yourselves - though I know you won't be...

Let the apologists continue their diatribes...

 

[vrDrew]

I am appalled by your attitude. Apple has for at least four years conducted inspections at factories and has worked to improve conditions for workers. And you are trying to make it look as if this was in any way due to this lying slimebag.

I think you need to look up the meaning of the word "redoubled", which I used in my original post. And maybe look up the word "appalled" while you're at it.

I get "appalled" at cases of murder, rape, and animal cruelty. Someone having a different opinion on a news story? Not so much.

 

[jackc]

I'm listening to the retraction episode, the guy made up almost every detail of his story.

 

[JAT]

Theater is exactly what it is. He's being been beforming this monologue on stage for some time. In fact TAL merely excerpted a portion of his stage performance for their program. Now they pretend to be shocked, shocked to find out that this theartrical piece is theater. How wimpy can they get? Not much more, you'd think -- until you take into consideration that most of what TAL has broadcast over the years qualifies as theater. It sure isn't journalism. Oh, and he did it for money. An artist making money. Shame on you, artist.

But, you seem to not understand that he is pretending it is journalism. Daisey is doing this, not the posters on MR. Seems to be confusing some people. Some even still think the WWE isn't theater.

 

[jackc]

I hope Apples legal dept look at this. Sue his ass off.

He has discredited himself. No need.