This New Yorker is pretty pissed about iOS 6 maps

[moonman239]

So I can take extra steps to get the same functionality in iOS6 as I did in iOS5 and previous versions? You're right. Problem solved.

Yeah, all you have to do is add Google Maps to your home screen.

Anyways, perhaps Apple wants us to use a third-party app for public transit directions because that allows us to choose whose directions we follow. So a user can get a map of a place in Maps, then use their favorite app to get public transit directions to that place.

 

[Johnny Quest]

So you don't even have the beta? So you still currently using google maps?

Wtf are you crying about then? Wow! Why not just wait until the firmware is released or at least until we get into beta 2 or 3 when 3rd parties have had a chance to implement their own public transportation apps into the new maps app?

Because I know it's coming down the pike, and this third-party workaround will never work as well as something being integrated into the OS. It's a step backwards; it's like getting rid of the Reminders app with all its cool features like Siri integration and geofencing and forcing us to go back to third-party todo list apps.

It's also the principle of the thing. This reeks of something Microsoft would do, throwing money at a problem and buying up other companies to come up with their own half-assed version of something, when Google has put YEARS of development into their maps. Except it's even worse, because Microsoft at least usually gives you choice. Apple wants to force their inferior alternative on me as the default navigation app.

Psst, hey buddy. Open up mobile Safari and type in "maps.google.com"

New Yorkers. Always ignorant.

Psst, buddy. Try reading the thread and realizing that's already been addressed. The Google maps web app is in no way a replacement for the integrated app.

Damn right. I'm a real New Yorker born and bred of 28 years before joining the army, and your answer is the right one.

I havent lived in NYC in 10 years, but whever I go back I still get around without a hiccup. Only a chump would need Google to get around on foot or the MTA. The same people that get their iPhones snatched on A train.

Say I'm in the East Village and need to get to the Upper West Side. It's useful to know, given exactly where I am and when the trains are arriving at nearby stations at any given time, whether it's faster to start at the 6 at Astor Place or the N-R at NYU or the L at 1st Ave to get where I need to go in the fastest time. Have I established my NYC bonafides sufficiently enough for you yet? And do you find yourself frequently trying to work the fact that you were in the army into everyday conversations, tough guy?

And LIVEFRMNYC, those of us who aspire to more in life than "sellin dope straight off the iPhone" prefer to have a backup plan for getting around now and then.

The bottom line is Apple is taking away a feature that worked well, and people would prefer to insult me and call me ignorant and a hipster rather than dare to question Apple's judgment.

 

[lordofthereef]

Yeah, all you have to do is add Google Maps to your home screen.

Did you completely miss WHY that is a terrible option? I guess I will repeat.

I have functionality that I want NOW. This is being taken from me, so I can either install something else, or make a safari link. Either way, it increases my clutter to yet another icon.

And in any case, your argument is flawed from the getgo... or were you the same person that, before Apple decided to launch turn by turn, you just told people "Go buy Tom Tom"?

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Anyways, perhaps Apple wants us to use a third-party app for public transit directions because that allows us to choose whose directions we follow. So a user can get a map of a place in Maps, then use their favorite app to get public transit directions to that place.

What? I can already do this with a handful of other apps. My problem is I need two apps now (or two icons taking up space somewhere) where I should only need one.



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What apple is doing here is akin to deciding they want to revamp the phone dialer, but we will need to use some third party app for a phonebook/contacts from now on because, well, who knows why.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

And LIVEFRMNYC, those of us who aspire to more in life than "sellin dope straight off the iPhone" prefer to have a backup plan for getting around now and then.

Selling dope straight off the iPhone has afforded me a car so I don't have to depend on the unreliable & dirty public transportation. You seem like the type who looks at the schedule and actually expects the train & bus to come on time.

Seriously though. I know the MTA has a thing that they text you when the next bus arrival comming. And soon they are going to have an app to track all the buses using gps. Not sure if it's implemented already, but you might want to look into that.

 

[Frankied22]

You might as well give up on this forum OP. All you're going to get on here for the majority is hate because you criticized Apples decision and raised some legitimate concerns about s smartphone feature that is a huge part of many peoples lives. Maps and navigation is very important and I agree that come fall we will be looking at an inferior mapping app on iOS. will Google release an iOS equivalent if the android Google maps? Possibly, but who knows when we will actually see it in the app store.

 

[Johnny Quest]

Selling dope straight off the iPhone has afforded me a car so I don't have to depend on the unreliable & dirty public transportation. You seem like the type who looks at the schedule and actually expects the train & bus to come on time.

You're too good for the subway and you're questioning whether I'm the real New Yorker? But whatever, agree to disagree.

I think you're right Frankied22, I've made my point here. There needs to be some way to make Apple feel some push back on this, because it's really annoying. I'll settle on some kind of workaround, but it's just obnoxious we're being forced to switch to an inferior alternative.

 

[lordofthereef]

You seem like the type who looks at the schedule and actually expects the train & bus to come on time.

I can't speak for NYC, as I have never been there. But in Ames, IA (yes, small town but they have a very good bus system),Chicago, San Francisco, and Boston all have buses and/or trains that run on time to the minute. I realize that you are responding to someone out of NYC, but the point is that New Yorkers are hardly going to be the only ones using this sort of thing.

As to your comments about buying a car, plenty of people choose not to use one in the big city. Why? Not because they cannot afford it, but because parking is a complete PITA and in many cases public transport gets you there faster. Again, I am speaking only for the big cities (and not so big cities) that I have used public transport fairly extensively.

 

[Ljohnson72]

Selling dope straight off the iPhone has afforded me a car so I don't have to depend on the unreliable & dirty public transportation. You seem like the type who looks at the schedule and actually expects the train & bus to come on time.

Seriously though. I know the MTA has a thing that they text you when the next bus arrival comming. And soon they are going to have an app to track all the buses using gps. Not sure if it's implemented already, but you might want to look into that.

Who in their right mind chooses to drive in Manhattan? Furthermore, claiming to be "above" public transportation is just a childish comment; I know hedge-fund mangers, partners at law firms, and executives that don't have time to waste on driving through the city or being chauffeured.

 

[newagemac]

Because I know it's coming down the pike, and this third-party workaround will never work as well as something being integrated into the OS. It's a step backwards; (snipped for brevity)

So you are saying this "third party workaround" can't be integrated into the OS even though the previous map was in fact using a "third party workaround". Because you do realize Google and the data they provided is a 3rd party right? As well as OpenStreetMaps, TomTom, Waze, and a ton of others they integrated for various data needs if you take a look at the credits.

Apple already had to do a "third party workaround" when they integrated Google's data into their Map application for transit directions. There is absolutely nothing preventing Apple integrating some other 3rd party other than Google into their native app for public transit info as well. In fact, that is exactly what they said they would do.

And yes it makes complete sense. I live in a major city as well and the local public transit apps and websites are always more accurate, more detailed, and more up to date than Google. Which makes complete sense since they are local.

But again the fact that you don't understand that Google's transit data itself was a 3rd party that Apple did indeed integrate into their Maps application makes your post hilarious.

 

[oBMTo]

maps.google.com

Problem solved.

More like creating a problem when there wasnt one in the first place.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

Jesus Christ @ the car comments. You crybabies don't know what sarcasm is?

And yes, am too good for the MTA. They charge too freaking much now for bad service. Why would I choose bad unreliable service if I can just drive? And driving in Manhattan isn't that bad. Actually I feel downtown BK is worst at times.

 

[SirithX]

It would be nice if Apple at least had an option in settings where you can choose the default Maps app to be Google or Apple, but of course the point here is for Apple to wean people off of Google products so that's why that won't happen.

I'm convinced Google will release a Maps app for iOS, just a couple weeks ago they had a conference about the future of Maps and they said they're committed to all mobile platforms, iOS included. The only problem is how long it will take Apple to accept it, I'm sure Apple will wait at LEAST a few months AFTER iOS 6 is released to the public, just so people have that time to get used to Apple Maps and will be less inclined to go back to Google when they are in the App store finally. And it seems Google is serious, they'll have turn-by-turn and most if not all the features Maps on Android has.

 

[BigHonkingDeal]

You have to at least spot the trend here though..... The last signature feature [SIRI] has been in Beta for 9 month......

IT'S BETA PEOPLE GET A LIFE! At almost 100 billion dollar company don't you think they thought all of this through? Apple will not offer a poorer user experience from a previous iOS version ... If they do go get a droid or galaxy phone.. Complain after the final version is released

 

[The Phazer]

It's amazing how we've been through four iOS beta programmes now and people are still dumb enough to believe that somehow radical improvement on a feature, rather than just bug fixes happens within that beta time. It doesn't. It never has, and it never will. Happened with the lack of various features. Happening with Siri. And now with Maps.

It's amazing how people think that Apple being a "big company" doesn't release software that is transparently worse than it's predecessors, given the existance of OSX Lion, the iPad calendar app, the iPad music app, Final Cut Pro, and the OSX Airport utility. Apple have released crappy, downgrading software a lot recently.

It's amazing how dumb people must be to think a webapp that doesn't even have compass access can compare to the existing app.

It's amazing how dumb people must be to think that a Google app store app that doesn't have access to the additional backgrounding APIs or default addressing from other parts of the OS can compare to the existing app.

It's amazing how dumb people must be to think the half assed "well, you need to walk and use a bus? Derp, well the maps app will push you back and forth between non-multitasking apps that can't actually talk to each other to any significant extent and will involve you cutting and pasting co-ordinate data between the two" isn't going to be a stinkingly poor user experience. And how dumb Apple thinks we are if they think we believe it's a good solution rather than desperation because they've completely failed to come up with any deals or deliver enough engineering resource to do it properly.

It's amazing that people are comparing Yelp's data to Googles as if that isn't rubbish.

There's a lot of amazing things in this thread. Sadly the new maps app ain't one of them.

 

[TrimmTrabb]

Apple felt they had no choice but to sever from Google on maps. That part's not really up for debate. It's not about wanting to punish Google, it's that Google was holding maps for ransom to try and get concessions out of Apple that it wasn't willing to make. It's why none of Google Maps' innovations have come to iOS in the last few years. And what must drive Apple crazy today (I know it drives me crazy) is the mandatory ads inside the Maps app, that obscure the location you're trying to search for. Apple doesn't stand for this sort of thing.

So, given that Apple's Maps app was hopelessly lagging, and was full of ads they will not stand for, the situation was untenable.

Creating a worldwide mapping service from scratch, and matching it with Google's in three years is an impossible feat. There are a lot of people defending it here, but the OP is right: the loss of Street View and transit directions are significant, not to mention the decline in quality of the cartography and satellite imagery (my city shows in black and white). Maybe it'll take Apple months or years to get up to par with Google, and maybe Apple will never invest in something like Street View or transit. Nobody really knows at this point, except that, based on what Scott Forestall said, transit is not coming in the foreseeable future.

However, that's life. Making simplistic arguments about Apple just caving to Google, or trying harder, or whatever else, completely trivialise what is a complex issue. The decision's been made. You're going to have to live with a mapping service that, while better in some ways, is lacking in pretty substantial ways.

Google will release a native app with the missing functionality - that's almost guaranteed. Or, you can buy an Android phone today, if the missing features are a deal-breaker for you. And you can stay on iOS 5 until such time. Is it ideal? Nope. But it's the price to pay for Apple insisting on owning the primary technologies behind their products and, whether or not they're right, they believe they've made the best choice for the long-term future of their platform, at the cost of some pain today.

 

[Frankied22]

It's amazing how we've been through four iOS beta programmes now and people are still dumb enough to believe that somehow radical improvement on a feature, rather than just bug fixes happens within that beta time. It doesn't. It never has, and it never will. Happened with the lack of various features. Happening with Siri. And now with Maps.

It's amazing how people think that Apple being a "big company" doesn't release software that is transparently worse than it's predecessors, given the existance of OSX Lion, the iPad calendar app, the iPad music app, Final Cut Pro, and the OSX Airport utility. Apple have released crappy, downgrading software a lot recently.

It's amazing how dumb people must be to think a webapp that doesn't even have compass access can compare to the existing app.

It's amazing how dumb people must be to think that a Google app store app that doesn't have access to the additional backgrounding APIs or default addressing from other parts of the OS can compare to the existing app.

It's amazing how dumb people must be to think the half assed "well, you need to walk and use a bus? Derp, well the maps app will push you back and forth between non-multitasking apps that can't actually talk to each other to any significant extent and will involve you cutting and pasting co-ordinate data between the two" isn't going to be a stinkingly poor user experience. And how dumb Apple thinks we are if they think we believe it's a good solution rather than desperation because they've completely failed to come up with any deals or deliver enough engineering resource to do it properly.

It's amazing that people are comparing Yelp's data to Googles as if that isn't rubbish.

There's a lot of amazing things in this thread. Sadly the new maps app ain't one of them.

So much truth.

 

[The Phazer]

That part's not really up for debate. It's not about wanting to punish Google, it's that Google was holding maps for ransom to try and get concessions out of Apple that it wasn't willing to make.

The evidence is overwhelming that it was, in fact, mostly to punish Google.

It's why none of Google Maps' innovations have come to iOS in the last few years.

No it isn't. The data came from Google. The app itself was developed from Apple, and the reason the innovations haven't come is because Apple didn't code the UI up. We can see that Google HAS actively added new features where it could do so without Apple having to make code changes, such as the launch of new transit data to iOS in the UK which happened about nine months ago.

If Google was "withholding" features, why didn't they withhold that one?

Phazer

 

[Vegastouch]

I can't speak for NYC, as I have never been there. But in Ames, IA (yes, small town but they have a very good bus system),Chicago, San Francisco, and Boston all have buses and/or trains that run on time to the minute. I realize that you are responding to someone out of NYC, but the point is that New Yorkers are hardly going to be the only ones using this sort of thing.

As to your comments about buying a car, plenty of people choose not to use one in the big city. Why? Not because they cannot afford it, but because parking is a complete PITA and in many cases public transport gets you there faster. Again, I am speaking only for the big cities (and not so big cities) that I have used public transport fairly extensively.

You also have to buy your parking space which from what i understand, starts at around $5,000. I'm going by word of mouth, ive never had to live there.

 

[Reddkryten]

well the maps app will push you back and forth between non-multitasking apps that can't actually talk to each other to any significant extent and will involve you cutting and pasting co-ordinate data between the two".

Do we actually know that this is how it will work? Depending on how the maps plugin is written it would be easy enough to both stay within the maps app and for two or more transit apps to share and compare data.

Have any notes to developers been released on this yet?

 

[Saladinos]

"So now I'm supposed to find mass transit routes through multiple standalone apps, which even together won't be able to duplicate the incredible ease and usefulness of Google's solution? This "third party developers do transit routing better than we do" bull from Apple is just a complete cop out."

Completely agree. This was a major shock from the keynote, and I note they didn't demo it (perhaps for shame). It's the first time I've known Apple to actually degrade the user experience.

Having more options for things like bike routes, etc is great (especially in central Europe; people cycle here like they drive in the US), but the loss of cohesion and inability to combine routes using different transport methods is a really massive loss.

Google just showed Apple why they aren't just going to walk in and make the best maps on the planet. Apples maps right now are just about borderline competitive.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

It's amazing how we've been through four iOS beta programmes now and people are still dumb enough to believe that somehow radical improvement on a feature, rather than just bug fixes happens within that beta time. It doesn't. It never has, and it never will. Happened with the lack of various features. Happening with Siri. And now with Maps.

It's amazing how people think that Apple being a "big company" doesn't release software that is transparently worse than it's predecessors, given the existance of OSX Lion, the iPad calendar app, the iPad music app, Final Cut Pro, and the OSX Airport utility. Apple have released crappy, downgrading software a lot recently.

It's amazing how dumb people must be to think a webapp that doesn't even have compass access can compare to the existing app.

It's amazing how dumb people must be to think that a Google app store app that doesn't have access to the additional backgrounding APIs or default addressing from other parts of the OS can compare to the existing app.

It's amazing how dumb people must be to think the half assed "well, you need to walk and use a bus? Derp, well the maps app will push you back and forth between non-multitasking apps that can't actually talk to each other to any significant extent and will involve you cutting and pasting co-ordinate data between the two" isn't going to be a stinkingly poor user experience. And how dumb Apple thinks we are if they think we believe it's a good solution rather than desperation because they've completely failed to come up with any deals or deliver enough engineering resource to do it properly.

It's amazing that people are comparing Yelp's data to Googles as if that isn't rubbish.

There's a lot of amazing things in this thread. Sadly the new maps app ain't one of them.

What's amazing to me is people's (over)reaction to anything Apple does that they feel is not satisfactory.

Google, from Android, Gmail, and etc, has been far from perfect. But nobody reacts the same way to Google and most other companies the way they do towards Apple. It's always, "well yes Android has X problem but they are working on a fix and cookie cutter OS will be worth the wait" or discussing alternatives. But with Apple, screw alternatives or waiting to see what actually cometh. Lets all have a hissy fit about a beta OS.


BTW ... there's always Mapquest, which in my opinion has the best routing for driving and public trans, even over Google.

 

[jwr94]

Well,someone made a petition for this http://www.walkscore.com/change/

 

[TrimmTrabb]

The evidence is overwhelming that it was, in fact, mostly to punish Google.



No it isn't. The data came from Google. The app itself was developed from Apple, and the reason the innovations haven't come is because Apple didn't code the UI up. We can see that Google HAS actively added new features where it could do so without Apple having to make code changes, such as the launch of new transit data to iOS in the UK which happened about nine months ago.

If Google was "withholding" features, why didn't they withhold that one?

Phazer

Here is a well-respected source for my interpretation of events:
http://online.wsj.com/article_email...98502695522974-lMyQjAxMTAyMDAwNDEwNDQyWj.html

Please point me to any credible reporting or analysis that supports your claims that this is simply about "sticking it to Google" and that "Apple is just not coding the UI".

Your accusation about the reasons for a staggered rollout of transit directions to certain regions is heavy on conjecture and light on evidence.

 

[chiefpavvy]

You also have to buy your parking space which from what i understand, starts at around $5,000. I'm going by word of mouth, ive never had to live there.

Such is life in the big city. I used to lease a parking spot for about $400 a month when I lived in Seattle. Goes with the territory. And [GASP] the maps were nowhere near what we have today! How did people live?!

 

[Technarchy]

You also have to buy your parking space which from what i understand, starts at around $5,000. I'm going by word of mouth, ive never had to live there.

You don't have to but it makes life easier. Driving around for 30 minutes looking for parallel parking 10 blocks from your house is never fun either.

Either way, attempting to navigate around NYC via MTA by way of Google is amusing. Then again transplants are always funny in a slightly tragic kinda way.