Thunderbolt 3 Ports on Right Side of 13-Inch MacBook Pro Have Reduced PCI Express Bandwidth

[vertsix]

I've been quietly observing these threads for some time now, getting some enjoyment out of them.

I find it particularly funny how many people in this thread, for example, are complaining about the negative things about the new Macbook Pros yet they'll buy one anyway.

Please keep going. I find it very entertaining.

 

[Sedulous]

Of course you want the quad core CPU for free, right? Not going to happen.

Did anyone say for free? It would have made more sense to keep the line consistent. Since the 13" probably sells as much as the 15", they could have gotten a better bulk price and increased the price by 1% to cover it.

 

[aristobrat]

Right back at ya. Could you explain to me how it's "function"and not "form" now that I can't charge the top-of-the-line smartphone Apple makes with the top-of-the-line laptop that Apple makes?

Mistake was on the iPhone side of that one, IMO. iPhone box should have included a USB C cable.

 

[sennys]

How would that be an improvement? The way Apple did it you get better than USB 3.1 gen 2 experience on all 4 ports. The ports on the right are perfect for the Thunderbolt 2 adapter.

Yep, you right, but life is not only about improvement it's als about smooth harmless transition and usability.
Making those two slower ports (or maybe just one) a USB 3 type A ports would allow still use all older USB stuff without dongles, on the same time Apple would send a message to the world "we are moving forward".

 

[Gudi]

Apple did hype it as a device that can hook up 5k displays on either side. As long as that isn't compromised...

The 15" can hook to two 5K displays, the 13" can handle one 5K or two 4K displays. And that's likely a limitation of Iris graphics and not TB ports.

 

[solipsism]

Right back at ya. Could you explain to me how it's "function"and not "form" now that I can't charge the top-of-the-line smartphone Apple makes with the top-of-the-line laptop that Apple makes?

So your solution is to keep USB-A with all its limitations for the rest of humanities existence? That's the definition of hindering function so you can keep the form of an archaic USB port interface.

How about this, don't buy a new Mac (which I doubt you'd do anyway) until the next iPhone ships with a USB-C-to-Lighting cable if you're too cheap to pay $5 for a adapter.

I guess you can bitch that your car—well, my car—has USB-A ports. I guess I should complain about Apple pulling the rest of the industry into the future with much better functionality until car companies stop using USB-A and start using USB-C, which I think will take at least 5 years since they are so damn slow to catch up.

What's funny is that you don't realize that without Apple adopting USB-C (or adopting USB-A 1.0 with the iMac so long ago) you wouldn't get the rest of the industry to adopt anything because they are run by people that care abut the bottom line over the progress of technology to make your life better.

And I guess you're one of the rare few that charge laptops in your car, rather than at home, before you actually get in the car.

You've never charged a smartphone or tablet in the car? You've never had another in a car using CE whilst on a long road trip? The long overdue move to USB-C means that you don't need an inverter to covert DC power to AC just so you can convert it to DC again with a bulky PSU. I'm not sure how fast my car's USB port or 12V cig lighter ports will charge the new MBPs, or if I can use all 3 ports to charge to 3 of the USB ports, but I've been waiting for this for a long time, as I stated previously regarding how this can be a huge timesaver to reimage a drive whilst without needing to run a noise inverter or risk power loss. If you see all that as "form" without any "function" then there's nothing I can do to make you see the benefits. But it doesn't matter—eventually you'll be using and loving USB-C.

 

[idunn]

Let's see, I need to find this adapter for this dongle, better check the reference chart. Then, uh, into this port … no. Uhm … no … oh, maybe that port—and this other thing over there . . .

Yeah, sounds wonderful. A real 'Pro' computer—and so thoughtfully designed.

 

[moosington]

Argument might seem stupid to you because you probably don't understand how technology can change. There is nothing close to the horizon? Very short sighted as if you are in charge of inventing new technologies. Also you yourself said it's not a pro device. All I am saying a pro device should be future proof for 3-4 years and thus absolutely isn't.

I never said it wasn't a pro device, I was paraphrasing you. Pro is a marketing term for "better than non pro." It's not a statement about your profession or life. There are tons of creative professionals that will never use half the power or ports on this laptop. There are tons of software developers that won't care either. Considering that I'm a professional data warehouse dev (i.e., deal with processing large sets of data 40-60 hours a week) and my wife is a professional designer, I have some experience.

I like how I don't understand how technology works, but you can't reference any sort of emerging consumer technology that would come close to using 4 tb3 ports on a laptop. This kind of stuff doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. We hardly have dGPU over TB technology available as it is, which works fine at half the TB3 speed. If you need several dGPUs for processing you need a desktop or server.

This laptop will be more than powerful enough in 3-4 years. 3-4 year old MBPs are still powerful enough for most users. CPU processing won't be making any huge leaps for a long time if Intel's performance over the last 5 years is any indicator either.

But keep saying "nuh uh! It's not for pros! /imnotaproanyways"

 

[BigPrince]

Are we going to have scan the fine print for gotchas with everything they do these days?

macOS Sierra has PICTURE IN PICTURE!!!*

*Only works on certain select sites and only after you right-clicked twice with your left hand and left-clicked 3 menu items with your right, said the magic word and walked 3 times around your desk while chanting and sprinkling salt. It has to be salt from the western slopes of the Himalayas otherwise it won't work.

You can unlock your Mac with your APPLE WATCH!!!*

*Note that your Mac must be shiny and new and that you have to jump through 130 hoops that are all on fire. They include finding obscure security settings, discovering that they're greyed out, searching the web for what to do next, finding a rushed blog post by some guy who discovered how to do it 15 minutes earlier, upgrade the Apple ID security by first reverting to "What's the name of your pet?" and then enabling two-step on all your iCloud devices which is very noisy and takes ages. Once you completed the hoops challenge it should be up and running, and it will work approximately 50% of the time. If it doesn't work, switch to flight mode and then back to normal. Then go find your iPhone (we hope you don't have to ping it tho since you just cut the connection) and disable flight mode because that can't be done remotely since it's in flight mode, duhh.

Your 13" MBP has FOUR THUNDERBOLT 3 PORTS!!!*

*Except... (drumroll)

And I thought I was the only person who struggled with getting my Apple Watch to do this.

 

[Maoltuile]

It's all these hidden things that upset customers, and rightfully so. Much like the iPhone 7's different modems, iPhone 6s's A9 chips, etc.

Much like the '64-bit' Mac Pro 1,1 which turned out actually not to be (thereby getting dropped with Mountain Lion. Dick move, Apple).

 

[NAYo2002]

Because for $2300, I'll be expecting a computer that is capable to distribute bandwidth equally to all four ports.

Read again. The 15 inch $2,300 version DOES have that capability. This is only about the 13 inch.

 

[solipsism]

The 15" can hook to two 5K displays, the 13" can handle one 5K or two 4K displays. And that's likely a limitation of Iris graphics and not TB ports.

That's a factor, but I think the more important restriction is the single TB3 controller on Skylake, whereas the 15" MBPs apparently have a second, discreet TB3 controller allowing for 2x5K or 4x4K.

 

[scoobs69]

"If "the little things add up to create a great user experience", Apple's new direction continues to overlook "the little things that add up"."

The little things that add up? Why are you only tallying (what you consider to be) the negatives?

Shouldn't you also be giving weight to the positives, in your presumably fair assessment?

Perhaps you are not aware good product design is about managing engineering tradeoffs. And finding the right balance of features, performance, and price that will satisfy the majority of your customer base.

There are always tradeoffs. I have yet to find a perfect tech product anywhere.

If Apple isn't meeting your unique needs, why not simply purchase a competitive 13" laptop that does; with four TB 3 ports, 32 GB RAM, breakaway power connector, etc, etc. They're out there, right?

I have talk talked about the positives in other posts/threads - this thread was about thunderbolt 3 ports.

All I can say is, I'm glad for this...

http://petapixel.com/2016/10/28/apple-teamed-lg-make-ultimate-5k-thunderbolt-display/

Just found out it charges the MacBook Pro as well as offering 3 USB-C ports. And $1,300 isn't unreasonable if it's color accurate. My NEC was $1,500.

So yay! Happy dance.

 

[lysingur]

So your solution is to keep USB-A with all its limitations for the rest of humanities existence? That's the definition of hindering function so you can keep the form of an archaic USB port interface.

How about this, don't buy a new Mac (which I doubt you'd do anyway) until the next iPhone ships with a USB-C-to-Lighting cable if you're too cheap to pay $5 for a adapter.

I guess you can bitch that your car—well, my car—has USB-A ports. I guess I should complain about Apple pulling the rest of the industry into the future with much better functionality until car companies stop using USB-A and start using USB-C, which I think will take at least 5 years since they are so damn slow to catch up.

What's funny is that you don't realize that without Apple adopting USB-C (or adopting USB-A 1.0 with the iMac so long ago) you wouldn't get the rest of the industry to adopt anything because they are run by people that care abut the bottom line over the progress of technology to make your life better.

My solution is that Apple ships a phone that can be charged with its own laptop. Not too much to ask I hope?

Lack of HDMI and TB ports isn't making anybody's life better and they're not legacy ports by any stretch of the imagination. Funny you mention the iMac. How long has Apple kept USB-A ports and how long TB ports? There is progress and there is too much progress and then there is arrogance.

 

[skippermonkey]

I'm pretty much done with Apple at this point. Frankly, the best news I could hear would be Tim Cook taking his $85 million in bonuses, retiring early and handing the reins to someone who give a **** about the company, its products and its user base – not just the level of stock, profit margins and shareholders' returns. He talks good talk, but I've seen nothing of real interest from the company that wasn't on Jobs' to-do list. Now that list has run out, it seems no-one at Apple has any good ideas any more, except bigger emojis and this touch-bar thing.

No new iMac, no new Mac pro, no new Mac mini, no new monitors (ever), no new Airport, no new accessories... what do the thousands of people at Apple actually do!? Just count the money?

 

[otternonsense]

I guess I never considered my 2015 MBP to be too thick, however, once I got used to it, my 2008 MBP started to feel quite chunky.

I think meeting in the middle on size, Dropping the legacy USB port, keeping 1 TB2 port, and offering more memory would have gone a long way.

Please, the 2015 MBP is anything but a chunky monkey. All Apple had to do was spruce up the internals for 2017 standards, make an edge-to-edge 4K display, dye it Space Grey and offer a healthy arrangement of ports (MagSafe, HDMI, SD, TB2). And had they kept the pricing the same, those things would fly off the shelves.

 

[frankc92]

totally an apples vs oranges comparison but its almost like Apple is trying to win 'worst release of 2016' against the Note 7 LOL. Gotta compete at everything, I guess....

 

[Digital Dude]

Well that sucks!

Yeah, it's the gift that keeps on taking ~

 

[cerberusss]

Could you plug more than one C connector into wall chargers and have the laptop charge more quickly?

Thanks for asking, great question. I suspect I have an advanced case of battery anxiety and I just love these details. I found the following:

• Your MacBook Pro only draws power one power supply, even if more than one is attached—so using multiple power supplies will not speed up charging.
• If you connect multiple power supplies to your MacBook Pro, the one that provides the most power will be used, regardless of the order in which you connected them.

Source: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207256

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

What's funny is that you don't realize that without Apple adopting USB-C (or adopting USB-A 1.0 with the iMac so long ago) you wouldn't get the rest of the industry to adopt anything because they are run by people that care abut the bottom line over the progress of technology to make your life better.

Yes. Right. That's why the iPhone 7 uses USB-C as the only interface. Wait...
Also, it would have been way more clever to use 2 USB-C and 2 normal USB Slots. Usability. Because that's why.
EDIT: One more thing: at least a microSD Slot wouldn't have been asked too much. Can't argue with thickness.

 

[tkatz]

Let's see, I need to find this adapter for this dongle, better check the reference chart. Then, uh, into this port … no. Uhm … no … oh, maybe that port—and this other thing over there . . .

Yeah, sounds wonderful. A real 'Pro' computer—and so thoughtfully designed.

It would seem like those that complain about something "Pro" not needing adapters don't really use things in a pro fashion.

As one of my side gigs I record live performances. For that I have a number of cameras and audio recording equipment. For the cameras I have HDMI and SDI cables, along with a couple HDMI to SDI converters in the event I need to go from one to the other. Then there's the video recording device that has a couple break out cables full of connectors. For audio I have an art box full of adapters and bags of cables. 1/4" TRS to XLR, 1/4" TRS to 2 1/4" TR, 1/4" TRS to 1/8" stereo, XLR-M to XLR-F, and a bunch of others. And yet sometimes I still find I don't have the right freaking adapter.

Adapters are a fact of life. At least TB3 uses the same connector as USB-C. So I'd be able to just replace my old USB cables with new USB-C to USB-A or USB-B or whatever I need, and my old TB cables with TB3 to TB. Big deal.

The rest of the complaints about what ports do what are just limitations of the upstream hardware that will settle over time. It sucks having different speed ports on each side but once you know which is which you're good. And it probably wont be an issue for most people (if you really need 4 high speed ports, get the 15").

What I really don't like on the new laptops is the touchbar and ati card (and 32gb would be nice). A non-touchbar 15", with recent nVidia gfx would have me replacing my 2012 rMbp in a heartbeat. I even like how the apple logo no longer lights up... saves me on having to put gaffer tape over it when I'm recording a show.

At this point I'll wait until the next revision and see if they upgrade to Kaby Lake stuff when its available, offer 32gb and offer a version without the touch bar. nVidia graphics would be nice as well.

 

[lysingur]

You've never charged a smartphone or tablet in the car? You've never had another in a car using CE whilst on a long road trip? The long overdue move to USB-C means that you don't need an inverter to covert DC power to AC just so you can convert it to DC again with a bulky PSU. I'm not sure how fast my car's USB port or 12V cig lighter ports will charge the new MBPs, or if I can use all 3 ports to charge to 3 of the USB ports, but I've been waiting for this for a long time, as I stated previously regarding how this can be a huge timesaver to reimage a drive whilst without needing to run a noise inverter or risk power loss. If you see all that as "form" without any "function" then there's nothing I can do to make you see the benefits. But it doesn't matter—eventually you'll be using and loving USB-C.

Who's talking about charging a smartphone in a car? We've been talking about the new MBP, haven't we?

And how does being able to charge your laptop in your car (having USB-C ports) conflict with keeping a few "legacy" ports? Work out your reasoning before you post, mate.

 

[imageWIS]

I've been quietly observing these threads for some time now, getting some enjoyment out of them.

I find it particularly funny how many people in this thread, for example, are complaining about the negative things about the new Macbook Pros yet they'll buy one anyway.

Please keep going. I find it very entertaining.

Looks like you are reading a different thread, because tons of people are stating that they WON'T buy one.

 

[solipsism]

Who's talking about charging a smartphone in a car? We've been talking about the new MBP, haven't we?

And how does being able to charge your laptop in your car (having USB-C ports) conflict with keeping a few "legacy" ports? Work out your reasoning before you post, mate.

You took issue with charging in a car (which applies to a train and planes, too) and tried to condemn me for not doing all my charging at home. I simply asked if you ever charged your phone in your car, because I'm sure you have.

I then tried to lead you into the light by noting it'll now be easy to do with USB-C as you no longer need an inverter to do the job for those that have a computer for work, their children, or other people whilst driving. Your inability to see the benefit of charging via USB is your inability to reason, not mine.

 

[FreshBoy]

Exactly. There will be fully working Dell Xps 15 quadcore Kaby Lake prototype models being used today.

Intel doesn't just dump a box on Dell's doorstep on January 15th and Dell is magically selling them on the 16th.
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I'm a dual user, mainly for work. There's nothing in this release that makes me think your direction of travel will be common.

These are a joke. No SD card slot either. I know all "Pros" love carrying around adapters and having several flopping around off their laptops. Maybe Apple should get out of the computer business. They aren't even trying anymore.

Yeah they should just quit. SD cards are used by pro photographers quite a lot and they carry quite a lot of equipment to shoots or whatever

These are a joke. No SD card slot either. I know all "Pros" love carrying around adapters and having several flopping around off their laptops. Maybe Apple should get out of the computer business. They aren't even trying anymore.

Great insightful view there chap. SD card adapters will be no load to carry for real pros like photographers who already carry a lot of equipment.