Thunderbolt 3 Ports on Right Side of 13-Inch MacBook Pro Have Reduced PCI Express Bandwidth

[KPOM]

Except it has now become very expensive to get a decent machine, and to make it usable from day one you still have to spend more money.

Whatever happened to gradually removing things so that you transitioned with your new laptop? Not a single USB-A port? i use an external mouse, so immediately the usability is out the window and i have to buy a friggin cable for a wireless mouse?!

When has Apple ever gradually removed anything? The iMac didn't gradually remove ADB or SCSI in favor of USB. Apple went all in with USB-A. 18 years later, they have gone all-in with USB-C. At least there are lots of USB-C to A adapters.

As for mice, Apple's own products work without adapters as they use Bluetooth. But Apple has been emphasizing the trackpad for more than a decade now.

 

[32828870]

Priorities have changed and so has the marketplace. Most of Apple's revenue comes from iPhone, and the MacBook line has long outsold the desktop lines. Apple won't ever be able to compete with the Chromebook on price, so they are concentrating on the MacBook and MacBook Pro where they are looking to compete on style and cutting-edge technology.

My guess is that Apple Displays didn't sell in large enough volume to justify the development costs. Few companies stepped up to the plate with Thunderbolt 2 displays, but now that Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C 3.1 Displayport use the same port, there are more options now for those looking for a decent display. To me, Apple's market is basically this, in order of priority:

1. iPhone
2. Services
3. iPad/Apple Watch
4. MacBook/MacBook Pro
5. Accessories
6. All other Macs

Products sold well. The "niche" rhetoric was simply that, rhetoric. iOS market saturation is forcing Cook to move into new markets after China - India, South America to name a few yet iPhone's and now MacBook's are expensive and not meeting conservative expectations. Additionally, the company has become fragmented again and it shows.

Apple falls 2% as it posts 3rd straight quarter of year-on-year revenue declines

Apple sales post first annual decline in 15 years

I've been using Apple systems for 15+ years, even work in marketing in the EU division, there is a lot behind the scenes most are unaware of and it has many seeking employment opportunities elsewhere.

 

[lysingur]

So that works out to be something like 2% of all iOS users may be using a USB-C Mac by the time the next iPhone comes out.

So instead of giving the vast majority of customers a cable that will be most useful in all of the environments they may encounter throughout their day, you'd have Apple supply them with a cable on the less than 2% chance they will buy a new Mac?

I think most people are asking Apple to include both cables during the transition that they impose on their users, rather than just one of the two. And I don't know if you're being facetious but isn't the small percentage (2% as you so eloquently puts it) all the more reason that Apple should do it (as it's financially negligible in the grand scheme of things)?

 

[KPOM]

Docking solutions are far from ideal and you're essentially asking people to carry around a dock to access their mobile hard drive and to charge their iPhone. Yeah, I get it. You can get the adapter for cheap on Amazon. Except people would have already paid good money for the Pro machine. Contrary to the iMac, which is aimed at the masses, the MBP is aimed at the professionals, who want functionality right out of the box.

The MacBook Pro (certainly the 13") is aimed at the masses. As for a mobile hard drive or charging a phone, there are USB-C cables that will connect directly to the MacBook Pro's Thunderbolt 3 ports. No adapters are needed. People had this same argument when Apple dropped the Ethernet port ("I'll need an adapter to plug into my network..."). And there have always been several competing display connecting technologies, so adapters have long been a given.

The Thunderbolt 3 is the ultimate PRO port. It has 4 times the bandwidth of USB 3.1 Gen 1, supports HDMI, DisplayPort 1.2, and 100W charging. Apple has adopted the new industry standard PRO port.

 

[lysingur]

Obviously I'd prefer if the MacBook Pros were $200 cheaper, but let's not pretend that Macs were ever cheap. Steve Jobs did introduce the Mac Mini and priced the MacBook Air at reasonably competitive prices during the "switcher" era but they were still sold at premium prices.
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Most iPhones are sold to Windows users, so until USB-C becomes ubiquitous I expect Apple will keep shipping it with a USB-A cable. They sell a USB-C to Lightning cable for $25 and I see third party versions for about $10.

The "cable be cheap" argument cuts both ways. If they're so cheap, as you so claimed, why can't Apple just include it or at least offers it as a free option during the transition period that they so courageously imposed on their users?

 

[32828870]

Inflation. A $2499 PowerBook G4 would be about $3100 in today's dollars.

Apple upgrades are pricey. But for most people today the base models have more than enough power.

That argument has been made and debunked long ago.

Technology has become less expensive as SSD's, RAM, CPU's, GPU's have all come down in price. I've built my share of Hackintoshes and have 2 Mac Pro5,1's that I updated with genuine Apple parts (current used WiFi ac + BTLE Broadcom chips, USB 3.1 PCIe, GPU - everything aside from Thunderbolt for obvious reasons). They all compare or beat my current gen Mac Pro6,1 12-Core dual D700 32GB RAM system that prices at $6k almost three years later.

It seems this is personal for you, so I'm backing out as these types of exchanges rarely benefit anyone.

 

[larmende]

Not likely to affect anyone's usage I don't think. That's still a huge amount of bandwidth for a external ports on a small laptop- at minimum the slower ports are still thunderbolt 1 speeds considering they get full usb 3.1 gen 2.

I don't think I have connected anything to my 2011 MAcBook Air in ages. Phone and printer connect via wifi, and the odd USB memory stick is not running out of band with. Maybe people are very fast with a mouse double click that they are worried about it slowing them down.

 

[KPOM]

Products sold well. The "niche" rhetoric was simply that, rhetoric. iOS market saturation is forcing Cook to move into new markets after China - India, South America to name a few yet iPhone's and now MacBook's are expensive and not meeting conservative expectations. Additionally, the company has become fragmented again and it shows.

Apple falls 2% as it posts 3rd straight quarter of year-on-year revenue declines

Apple sales post first annual decline in 15 years

Part of that is the law of large numbers. Apple is a much larger company than it was in 2001. Yes, iOS is getting saturated, but even a doubling of Mac sales wouldn't move the needle much for Apple (since undoubtedly it would mean cutting prices and going downmarket to get that share).

I don't doubt that Apple isn't as cleanly focused as it was before the iPhone, but such a disruptive product would change any company. Where I think Apple needs to improve focus is more on services, which is where the growth has been lately.

 

[idunn]

You are NOT a fashion company, you are a computer company. Time to act like it.

Amen.

Not sure Apple got that memo.

 

[KPOM]

That argument has been made and debunked long ago.

It seems this is personal for you, so I'm backing out as these types of exchanges rarely benefit anyone.

Nothing personal. It's just that $2499 was a lot of money in 2004.

 

[solipsism]

It's you who needs critical thinking. USB-C to Lightning Cable should've been included with the iPhone 7, especially after MBP 2016 starts shipping. But will Apple do it? Most likely not.

LOL So it's myself and Apple that think that the iPhone shouldn't have shipped with USB-C and then forced 99.99999% of users to buy an adapter for their computers with USB-A or include an adapter for USB-C that no one would use. Good one¡

Even next year the USB-C adoption will still be low enough that I wouldn't be surprised if it's still USB-A but with an adapter for USB-C. And I said previously, let's not hurt hundreds of millions of iPhone (and iPad) users because of the relatively small number of users that will buy a MBP. I'm one of these new MBP users with an iPhone and I'm not upset, so you certainly shouldn't be since you're not one of these new MBP buyers.

 

[32828870]

Nothing personal. It's just that $2499 was a lot of money in 2004.

Your argument using inflation has been made and debunked long ago.

Technology has become less expensive as SSD's, RAM, CPU's, GPU's have all come down in price. I've built my share of Hackintoshes and have 2 Mac Pro5,1's that I updated with genuine Apple parts (current used WiFi ac + BTLE Broadcom chips, USB 3.1 PCIe, GPU - everything aside from Thunderbolt for obvious reasons). They all compare or beat my current gen Mac Pro6,1 12-Core dual D700 32GB RAM system that prices at $6k almost three years later.

Interestingly, older Mac Pro5,1 models are selling for more money as they're more desired by professionals.

 

[BenTrovato]

No doubt that TB3/USB C is a far superior standard. It just stinks that a lot of us still have a ton of USB A devices and still use the SD card slot. It's always going to stink to move on. I would wage that Apple will be one of the first big players to have a portless laptop as soon as wireless charging becomes a better alternative to plugging in. Or in Apple speak, as soon as wireless charging is good enough but still an inconvenience, they will remove the power adapter.

 

[cerberusss]

Does anyone know where I can find that wallpaper (the one on the first post)?

I found a small version, posted it here;
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/new-2016-macbook-pro-wallpapers.2009774/#post-23821149

Hope someone else can find a bigger version.

 

[lysingur]

LOL So it's myself and Apple that think that the iPhone shouldn't have shipped with USB-C and then forced 99.99999% of users to buy an adapter for their computers with USB-A or include an adapter for USB-C that no one would use. Good one¡

Even next year the USB-C adoption will still be low enough that I wouldn't be surprised if it's still USB-A but with an adapter for USB-C. And I said previously, let's not hurt hundreds of millions of iPhone (and iPad) users because of the relatively small number of users that will buy a MBP. I'm one of these new MBP users with an iPhone and I'm not upset, so you certainly shouldn't be since you're not one of these new MBP buyers.

What part of "both" don't you get? They should've at least offered it as a free or discount option for iPhone 7 users who want it.

And how does including an extra cable hurt the users?

Just because you aren't upset doesn't mean others aren't. It's not that difficult to understand.

 

[solipsism]

Amen.

Not sure Apple got that memo.

If you think the upgrades in the redesigned MBP are a fashion statement and not huge boost in capabilities for users, then I'm sad for you.
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What part of "both" don't you get?

Already addressed. I stated it's silly to include another cable for a machine not yet announced and still 2 months from hitting shelves when the iPhone 7 came out.

 

[diddl14]

To post something positiv in this mostly negative thread,
I just ordered a 15"/512Gb to replace my Air 2011

And taking the time it takes to ship, I'm apparently not to only one..

 

[BenTrovato]

Your argument using inflation has been made and debunked long ago.

Technology has become less expensive as SSD's, RAM, CPU's, GPU's have all come down in price. I've built my share of Hackintoshes and have 2 Mac Pro5,1's that I updated with genuine Apple parts (current used WiFi ac + BTLE Broadcom chips, USB 3.1 PCIe, GPU - everything aside from Thunderbolt for obvious reasons). They all compare or beat my current gen Mac Pro6,1 12-Core dual D700 32GB RAM system that prices at $6k almost three years later.

The truth is somewhere in between. Apple wants better profit margins and relies on the psychology of previous pricing. A truly reflective price of technology would fluctuate between a Mac costing $2500 at launch and decreasing to $1000 after 4 years. The problem is, no one would buy in year 1 and the corporation would ultimately fail. Our commercial world isn't set to deliver value for tech, it's set to deliver profits for margins.

 

[KPOM]

The "cable be cheap" argument cuts both ways. If they're so cheap, as you so claimed, why can't Apple just include it or at least offers it as a free option during the transition period that they so courageously imposed on their users?

Imposing a cost to use legacy technology is a form of persuasion (e.g. why not pay a little more and get a USB-C solution rather than buying an adapter to use an older solution?).

Apple did what you suggested only once that I recall, shipping 2 display adapters with the original MacBook Air. However, shipping a MacBook Pro with a hub and or collection of legacy adapters would be seen as a sign that Apple isn't fully embracing the new standards. It would be very unlike Apple to do so. And of course, they do get ancillary revenue from adapters but it's relatively small.

 

[lysingur]

If you think the upgrades in the redesigned MBP are a fashion statement and not huge boost in capabilities for users, then I'm sad for you.
[doublepost=1477766888][/doublepost]
Already addressed. I stated it's silly to include another cable for a machine not yet announced and still 2 months from hitting shelves when the iPhone 7 came out.

I think it's silly that you keep trying to not understand that people are asking for the cable ex post facto, rather than before MBP 2016 was introduced.

And just to remind you that iPhone 7 shipment has been delayed since launch day so it's not like most people are waving around an iPhone 7 that they ordered two months ago.

 

[Gudi]

Hard. Ware. Porn.

Disappointing that the 61W USB-C Power Adapter isn't seamless as the 29W adapter.​

 

[solipsism]

I think it's silly that you keep trying to not understand that people are asking for the cable ex post facto, rather than retroactively.

It's insane that you believe that you know everything wrong with the world's largest company and would do better than everyone else if you were running it (like shipping a Lighting-to-USB-C cable for an unrelated MBP, without once considering that it would make more sense to include a USB-C-to-USB-A dongle with new MBPs, but it's 2016 so plugging your iPhone into your Mac to sync isn't as common), but ignoring that for a moment, try to realize that the only thing you can do is vote with your wallet. You don't like Apple moving into the future with technology then buy form a different company, or create your company where you cater to the clotting-edge customer.

 

[RestUnknown]

With the updates of the MBP's I have lost that 'connection' with Apple. No doubt they're great machines, but they're too pricy for what you get.

I have a 9 year old 15" MBP for which I paid 1900 euro's back then. It was practically the best you can get and it had a dedicated gpu. I was planning on buying a new one, but it's now priced at 2700. Yes it also has a dedicated gpu, but I don't even get as much bang for buck like I had with my old MBP.

For me, this move has made me lost that special feeling I got when using Apple products, they've gone into the complete wrong way. I always believed and hoped they would get out of this downward spiral, but Tim Cook is digging the grave deeper and deeper. People don't mind paying a price for a true premium product, but they've crossed the line, it's too much for too little.

 

[AxiomaticRubric]

I suspect that answer is no because the battery will have a max electrical input that it can take, but would like someone with better understanding to confirm: Could you plug more than one C connector into wall chargers and have the laptop charge more quickly?

Per the Apple documentation, if multiple chargers are attached only the charger with the highest watts is used to charge the battery.

 

[32828870]

Hard. Ware. Porn.

Disappointing that the 61W USB-C Power Adapter isn't seamless as the 29W adapter.​

A beautiful system, no doubt. Yet a better replacement for the MacBook based on components. The pricing was the last nail in its coffin.