Thunderbolt 3 Ports on Right Side of 13-Inch MacBook Pro Have Reduced PCI Express Bandwidth

[Macintoshrumors]

How many actually need that bandwidth on even ONE port much less 3 to 4? And are actually in the market for the 13" Pro right now? How many were truly planning to get the 13" and hook up 4 TB3 devices that need that bandwidth? How many pay zero attention to far more significant positives, from screen quality to giant trackpad?

Exactly! People are complaing about what they see on paper without UNDERSTANDING the advancements in what apple has been able to do. I love the new MBp. I understand where the company is headed. I understand where the future of data storage is going. I am ready to embrace moving forward while everyone else can complain about the logo not glowing, ignoring the fact the the LCD screen is thinner and better than before.

 

[Larry The L]

The news about the new MBP keep getting worst everyday. I want use a mouse and charge my iPhone, that 40 US$ more, insanely courageous!!!

Than just move over to another platform that will give you everything you want. I hear the surface from microsoft was designed with you complainers in mind. Enjoy.
[doublepost=1477787085][/doublepost]

How many actually need that bandwidth on even ONE port much less 3 to 4? And are actually in the market for the 13" Pro right now? How many were truly planning to get the 13" and hook up 4 TB3 devices that need that bandwidth? How many pay zero attention to far more significant positives, from screen quality to giant trackpad?

Exactly. But here, complaining and bashing apple is the way to go. Even if it's completely silly. These are people who just live to complain. If they had 4 full bandwidth ports, they would be complaining that apple spend money on something that almost no one would need. When one's life is devoted to bashing apple, well, that's there very sad life. They will never appreciate the good that comes from apple. Very pathetic.

 

[freepomme]

Here's the sad part. You guys are going to buy up these terrible products like hotcakes. The only Apple products that can do poorly, is something that looks cheap. That y'all won't buy. Buy you WILL buy anything by Appls, buggy or broken.

 

[tjleonard]

Exactly! People are complaing about what they see on paper without UNDERSTANDING the advancements in what apple has been able to do. I love the new MBp. I understand where the company is headed. I understand where the future of data storage is going. I am ready to embrace moving forward while everyone else can complain about the logo not glowing, ignoring the fact the the LCD screen is thinner and better than before.

Initially, I was just annoyed that there is not at least 1 port on the left and one on the right that is exactly the same. My office is setup so the Mac cables would be out of the way if I could plug in and charge on the left side, so loved that all ports could charge. Originally reading the article that MR posted, again, originally annoyed me...not necessarily that this is the case, I spent 3k and assumed both sides were the same poets (exactly the same). After all, the keynote did make it sound like they were 100% identical (including speed).

Now, it doesn't bother me. At the end of the day, I'll only use a max of 2 ports anyway...for that 1 time ever where it might matter, it's not like it's not there for me to untilize.

I said on this forum that I wanted a Mac Pro, 13", thinner, lighter, smaller footprint, and only a little faster. They've achieved everything I wanted so it was really a no brainer to order...I didn't care if it had 4 thunderbolt 3...I would like at least 2, and apple surpassed that.

 

[bbbb4b]

This has to do with the number of PCI Express lanes provided by the Intel chips. Thunderbolt 3 needs 4 PCI Express lanes for full throughput. The dual-core chips in the 13" MacBook Pro only have 12 lanes, so that can only support two full speed ports (2x4 lanes) and two ports at half speed (2x2 lanes). The quad-core in 15" MacBook Pro supports up to 16 lanes, which gives 4 full speed thunderbolt ports.

I can't believe this post originated on page 3 of this thread, and 29 pages later, people are still too stupid to grasp it.
actually, I take it back; yes, I can believe.

 

[citysnaps]

I can't believe this post originated on page 3 of this thread, and 29 pages later, people are still too stupid to grasp it.
actually, I take it back; yes, I can believe.

I wonder if this correlates with all of the anti-science people out there now? It's like, "don't weigh me down with the facts..."

 

[Santabean2000]

I don't believe for one second that any of this would make you abandon apple. Not for a millisecond. You people love to bash apple for every tiny little thing. You magnify every perceived slight. You don't understand the world is changing and you must change with it. You always say that if only Jobs were alive, all would be fine. You have NO idea if that is true. But I do know your statement is false bravura that doesn't fool anyone!

That's exactly the cancerous arrogance that has infected Apple. Keep thinking that and watch Apple fail like all the other giants gone before.

 

[terraphantm]

This has to do with the number of PCI Express lanes provided by the Intel chips. Thunderbolt 3 needs 4 PCI Express lanes for full throughput. The dual-core chips in the 13" MacBook Pro only have 12 lanes, so that can only support two full speed ports (2x4 lanes) and two ports at half speed (2x2 lanes). The quad-core in 15" MacBook Pro supports up to 16 lanes, which gives 4 full speed thunderbolt ports.

If the quad-core only has 16 lanes, all of which are apparently used for the thunderbolt ports, what does the dGPU use?

 

[Zdigital2015]

Some people are really crazy. Die hard fans. I also like Apple, but let's face it - this company's changed.

New MacBook:

• Has a very weak GPU but that's nothing new
• Two out of four ports are slower and therefore aren't really TB3. Nobody mentioned it except for data sheet which is meant to mislead customer.
• New MacBook comes without power extensions cable and microfiber cloth. Yes, that's how money driven Apple has become.
• New MacBook doesn't connect to new iPhone without dongle which is not included.
• New MacBook features audio jack which Apple said is old, bad tech. It doesn't have Lightning connector which Apple advised as solution for plugging headphones. So if you bought new Lightning headphones, you won't plug them to MacBook without dongle. These products are same gen, released within one month of each other.
• New MacBook doesn't have most recent gen Intel processors.

All in all, you could forgive all this stuff (maybe not all of them for one product). Unfortunately, Apple has taken this opportunity to increase all prices. I have paid for my Late 2013 13" rMBP 6600PLN and it was the 'middle' model. The new MacBook without touch bar, so the lowest tier, starts at 7500PLN.

If you consider all this stuff at once, the new MacBook turns out to be the biggest flop Apple released since I started using their stuff in 2012. It speaks a lot, since they released in the meantime 'iPad Pro'.

EDIT: They also removed MagSafe which was one of the best features. Forgot to mention.

Couple of things wrong with your logic here, however, I'm not quite sure if you're talking about the MacBook Pro and not the MacBook released earlier this year.

• Nobody knows how fast the GPUs really are since the 15" MacBook Pro is the first laptop to use a Radeon Pro and aren't shipping yet.

• All four ports in the 13" MBP use a Thunderbolt 3 controller (JHL6540) and use the USB-C port. Just because two of the four ports don't use as many PCIe lanes, doesn't mean it's not TB3.

• Yes, that's cheaping out on Apple's part, no ifs, ands or buts.

• The iPhone, or any Lightning equipped iPhone, for that matter, can connect to a 2016 MacBook or MackBook Pro with the USB-C to Lightning Cable (I own one). Yes, it costs extra...what's your point?

• Apple will never please anyone with regard to the audio jack. The iPhone needed to lose it to be waterproof, the MBP doesn't need to be waterproof.

• The MacBook Pros both use SkyLake-H CPUs, which are the latest and greatest. There are no Kaby Lake-H CPUs currently shipping until Q1 of 2017. There are only two Kaby Lake U-series i7/i5 CPUs currently shipping, neither of which Apple would use in a MacBook Pro, nice try, but try again.

 

[Jaekae]

Some people are really crazy. Die hard fans. I also like Apple, but let's face it - this company's changed.

New MacBook:

• Has a very weak GPU but that's nothing new
• Two out of four ports are slower and therefore aren't really TB3. Nobody mentioned it except for data sheet which is meant to mislead customer.
• New MacBook comes without power extensions cable and microfiber cloth. Yes, that's how money driven Apple has become.
• New MacBook doesn't connect to new iPhone without dongle which is not included.
• New MacBook features audio jack which Apple said is old, bad tech. It doesn't have Lightning connector which Apple advised as solution for plugging headphones. So if you bought new Lightning headphones, you won't plug them to MacBook without dongle. These products are same gen, released within one month of each other.
• New MacBook doesn't have most recent gen Intel processors.

All in all, you could forgive all this stuff (maybe not all of them for one product). Unfortunately, Apple has taken this opportunity to increase all prices. I have paid for my Late 2013 13" rMBP 6600PLN and it was the 'middle' model. The new MacBook without touch bar, so the lowest tier, starts at 7500PLN.

If you consider all this stuff at once, the new MacBook turns out to be the biggest flop Apple released since I started using their stuff in 2012. It speaks a lot, since they released in the meantime 'iPad Pro'.

EDIT: They also removed MagSafe which was one of the best features. Forgot to mention.

Gpu has double the performance of last years model, and this is not a gaming laptop so its powerful enough for what probably 95% of the ppl want to use it for..

Why would they remove a port just to add another one that has no other use than to do what the first port did? (3,5mm to lightning..)

They do have latest gen intel processors

 

[zhenya]

With the updates of the MBP's I have lost that 'connection' with Apple. No doubt they're great machines, but they're too pricy for what you get.

I have a 9 year old 15" MBP for which I paid 1900 euro's back then. It was practically the best you can get and it had a dedicated gpu. I was planning on buying a new one, but it's now priced at 2700. Yes it also has a dedicated gpu, but I don't even get as much bang for buck like I had with my old MBP.

For me, this move has made me lost that special feeling I got when using Apple products, they've gone into the complete wrong way. I always believed and hoped they would get out of this downward spiral, but Tim Cook is digging the grave deeper and deeper. People don't mind paying a price for a true premium product, but they've crossed the line, it's too much for too little.

If your machine is from ~2008 then the difference in price you are seeing largely amounts to differences in currency value. 2008 was the strongest year of the Euro vs. the Dollar in the previous decade. Right now you are in the period where it is at its weakest. The Euro was worth 40% more in 2008 than today. Almost exactly the spread you are seeing from 1900 to 2700 Euros.

 

[Jim Lahey]

This is simply unacceptable. I was expecting to be able to connect four 5k monitors, powered by GTX Titan quad-SLI. I wanted 512GB of RAM (I run five operating systems simulataneously in virtual machines and edit Pixar movies in realtime). I was also hoping this would all be free.

I'm now going to buy the old model that I've been whining about for 18 months

 

[Zdigital2015]

If the quad-core only has 16 lanes, all of which are apparently used for the thunderbolt ports, what does the dGPU use?

The dGPU uses most likely uses x8 PCIe lanes, as it has in the past (check your System Profiler; under Graphics), which leaves x8 more lanes for TB3 (2 Alpine Ridge controllers @ x4 lanes each). This exhausts the CPU lanes. There are x16 PCIe 3.0 lanes in the QM170/HM170 chipset and Apple needs at least x4 lanes for the SSD/Flash, which leaves 12 for the rest of the various I/O in the system.

 

[gopo]

Next year Apple's keynote....Tim Cook, Ive, Schiller on stage....
Je t'aime… moi non plus (I love you... me neither)...Magic

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1590609057913403

 

[DudeDad]

I can't answer as you're not quoting me.

• iPhone 7 cannot be plugged to new rMBPs out of the box

No iPhone could be plugged into any MacBook out of the box ever....it never came with a cable. You had to have one or buy one. So buy a friggin' lightning/USB-C cable and find more important things to complain about.

The whining here is just hysterical. Not happy? Leave, buy a Surface, and shut up.

 

[Mac 128]

I doubt it. I've only used the headphone jack on a MacBook, probably three times, and all decades ago with non-Bluetooth speakers which have since died, been lost, stolen, given away, tossed. I wouldn't ever likely use one in the future either.

It just seems odd that Apple would characteristic the removal of the headphone jack as 'courage', and yet still cling to it on the MacBook line, and then ditch the USB and HDMI ports, along with Magsafe. Doesn't make much sense...

My new theory is that Apple wasn't ready to add Lightning to the MacBook yet, and we may first see it with the rMB update.

To me if they can't fit them on the side, do what MS, Dell, HP does. Put the large ports in the rear.

I sure as hell don't want to carry an HDMI and gigabit Ethernet dongle. I mean imagine showing up to a meeting at work and having to connect 4 adapters to display something on the tv, charge, connect to network, and plug in your USB flash drive that holds the content?

I'd be so embarrassed I'd buy a Dell. Oh wait. I did

I can't imagine why you'd be in that situation. For starters, why would you have to connect an adapter to charge, it comes with a charger? Second why would you put your presentation in an incompatible flash drive? Third, what company where you give a presentation doesn't have a wifi network? And if for some reason they don't, there's your first adapter. And finally, USB-c is natively compatible with hdmi. So you use a USB-C to hdmi cable, not an adapter, or at worst there's your second adapter.

What if you showed up to a presentation and they had a VGA projecter? And what if the sound system only had RCA inputs? There's two adapters for your Dell right there. And what if they wanted to use your PC to run a presentation off their FireWire drive?

In the end you buy the tool you need and adapt. I would never run windows. That's for more embarrassing to me than carrying a couple of adapters.

 

[bjet767]

A few points:

1. I think the latest version of Surface Book nails it! But it doesn't run OSX and it is modeled after the MBP with some improvements, like touch screen.
2. The new extension cord missing is a good thing to me. I hated the big thick power cord which came with my earlier MBs and actually used the small wall plug adapter and never used the cord. If I need more length from an outlet I used a lighter weight extension cord. The truth is I normally run on battery except when at home or in hotel room. One of the features which drove me to Apple was their lead on battery life. My Sony in the day would last about 45 min at best while my first MB lasted 3 hours.
3. I love having 4 USB C ports! I don't mind bringing a multi-port adapter in exchange for slimmer case. If they had dropped the headphone port I admit I would miss that. But I'd get over it.

I'm looking forward to getting my 13" MBP with the funky toolbar. I now will be able to adequately run a VM view as well as OSX at the same time (something my 2015 12" struggle with).

Thanks Apple.

PS. If you all think Apple has failed the PC market check out Microsoft's quarterly reports. Guess what they have the same issues!

 

[kcamfork]

No doubt Apple will lose customers over this but it is driving the industry forward with the new ports. It alienates people initially but then becomes the norm later and people forget. Buy a multi port or move to windows. Two simple solutions.

I've already moved to windows and self built PCs.
[doublepost=1477792820][/doublepost]

It's $10 to get a multi port. If you can afford a mb pro, you can spring for the adapter.

I can afford a MacBook Pro. I'm choosing not to be raped with ridiculous dongles and accessory charges. If you want to be, that's your perogative.

 

[huckg]

Identical ports providing different bandwidths, that's a massive engineering bodge. They should have at least labeled or marked them differently instead of "why is this port not working like the others"?

Yet at the same time the headphone jack is on the right. Can you imagine hitting the cord whenever you switch from the trackpad/mouse to the keyboard if you're right handed?

 

[frifra]

Adaptermania. Now I need a degree to plug a USB key and a 4K display in a MacBook Pro.

Well done Apple.
[doublepost=1477793446][/doublepost]It seems like no one is steering Apple anymore. Just like the self-driving car project.

Jesus take the wheel!

 

[citysnaps]

Adaptermania. Now I need a degree to plug a USB key and a 4K display in a MacBook Pro.

Well done Apple.

I can't imagine anyone purchasing a MacBook Pro having difficulty with something that trivial. But assuming you would find that too challenging, just ask a neighbor kid down the block.

 

[lowkey]

Identical ports providing different bandwidths, that's a massive engineering bodge. They should have at least labeled or marked them differently instead of "why is this port not working like the others"?

Yet at the same time the headphone jack is on the right. Can you imagine hitting the cord whenever you switch from the trackpad/mouse to the keyboard if you're right handed?

The level of stupidity and entitlement is massive here.
I have a 12" MB with a headphone output on the right. It really hasn't been a problem.

But I guess you're just looking to invent more first world problems to complain about.

"Omg I can't believe they put the headphone plug on the right. I might touch that cable with the side of my hand one day". LOL get over it mate. Some people in this world don't have electricity.

 

[rebe1]

You know perfectly well that if other high end companies (especially Microsoft) released a flagship product that required a nest of dongles to perform basic 2016 functionality, you'd be the first to mock it. And quite rightly too, because it's absurd.

Basic 2016 functionality = Charge your laptop, contact to wifi, retrieve documents to/from the cloud.

 

[lowkey]

Adaptermania. Now I need a degree to plug a USB key and a 4K display in a MacBook Pro.

Well done Apple.
[doublepost=1477793446][/doublepost]It seems like no one is steering Apple anymore. Just like the self-driving car project.

Jesus take the wheel!

Sounds like you should buy the MacBook Amateur if it's too complicated for you.

 

[bjet767]

I've already moved to windows and self built PCs

Funny I came from the other direction. Hated my Motorola based power Mac because it was slower and cost more than any Windows machine. I built my own PCs for a very long time and then along came MB and MBA, light not the most powerful compared to my Windows, but really worked good!

Oh did I mention not a single virus problem, ok I lied just one, since I've been in the OSX world. I wish I could say the same about my Windows machines, even 10.