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Nothing says maturity or intelligence than claiming that the same universal, high-power, high-I/O port for charging, data, and video can done from a single USB-C port to a nice 5K display with its own USB-C hub built into the back is an "octopus." How miserable it must be to be able to have one plug that everyone can use. It's amazing you ever moved on from VGA, serial and parallel ports.

You're not making it any better. You're not even describing a realistic scenario. We (myself included) already have our equipment, external displays and workflow. SD, HDMI and TB2 connectors are anything but "legacy" in 2016. Colleagues use SD storage extensions. Your "solution" would be to additionally buy the LG 5K display (which Apple didn't even bother to make and market for itself) as well as complete peripheral replacements and/or dongles/USBC hubs. Brilliant. Does it come with a complementary 10K donation?

How is it "one cable everyone can use" when noone has it out of the box? Even a new iPhone 7 user cannot plug their phone to a new MacBook for crying out loud.
 
Amazing that you prefer to justify an expensive usability workaround because you're not offered the default option anymore.

Expensive? USB-C to USB-A adapters are literally $7 on Amazon prime right this very moment and I didn't spend even a minute looking. Resistance to USB-C has got to be some combination of stubbornness and being a cheapskate, because I cannot believe someone seriously in the market for a $1.5-$2.5k laptop would balk, in any way and for any reason, at $7 accessories. The nice thing is because USB-C IS HDMI, DP, and USB, passive cables and adapters are quite inexpensive and readily available. Why do people want a pile of limited legacy ports instead of USB-C ports that can do all of the above with inexpensive cables? Am I not understanding something?
 
You're not making it any better. You're not even describing a realistic scenario. We (myself included) already have our equipment, external displays and workflow. SD, HDMI and TB2 connectors are anything but "legacy" in 2016. Colleagues use SD storage extensions. Your "solution" would be to additionally buy the LG 5K display (which Apple didn't even bother to make and market for itself) as well as complete peripheral replacements and/or dongles/USBC hubs. Brilliant. Does it come with a complementary 10K donation?

How is it "one cable everyone can use" when noone has it out of the box? Even a new iPhone 7 user cannot plug their phone to a new MacBook for crying out loud.

LOL A new MBP connected to a 5K display is sooo unrealistic.
 
Expensive? USB-C to USB-A adapters are literally $7 on Amazon prime right this very moment and I didn't spend even a minute looking. Resistance to USB-C has got to be some combination of stubbornness and being a cheapskate, because I cannot believe someone seriously in the market for a $1.5-$2.5k laptop would balk, in any way and for any reason, at $7 accessories. The nice thing is because USB-C IS HDMI, DP, and USB, passive cables and adapters are quite inexpensive and readily available. Why do people want a pile of limited legacy ports instead of USB-C ports that can do all of the above with inexpensive cables? Am I not understanding something?

Yes, you are not understanding anything. It's not resistance to USBC. It's resistance to forced obsolescence 2 years too early.
 
Expensive? USB-C to USB-A adapters are literally $7 on Amazon prime right this very moment and I didn't spend even a minute looking. Resistance to USB-C has got to be some combination of stubbornness and being a cheapskate, because I cannot believe someone seriously in the market for a $1.5-$2.5k laptop would balk, in any way and for any reason, at $7 accessories. The nice thing is because USB-C IS HDMI, DP, and USB, passive cables and adapters are quite inexpensive and readily available. Why do people want a pile of limited legacy ports instead of USB-C ports that can do all of the above with inexpensive cables? Am I not understanding something?

Even less expensive at Monoprice with over 1200 USB-C compatible products to choose from.
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Yes, you are not understanding anything. It's not resistance to USBC. It's resistance to forced obsolescence 2 years too early.

Wait! Now you're claiming you're being forced to buy a new MBP? Amazing!

Bottom line: You don't have to buy a new MBP. You don't have to buy anything from Apple. You can continue using your slow connectors on your slow devices while continuing to be angry about how the world is leaving you behind.
 
LOL A new MBP connected to a 5K display is sooo unrealistic.

Yes, in an office situation where we have ALL our screens already deployed since 2015 and 9 out of 10 employees are using MacBooks, it's unrealistic to justify the expense of additional 5K displays on the fly. In a private scenario: people were holding off to buy a new MacBook Pro, not the bonus 5K display that Schiller wants to sell along with it.
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Even less expensive at Monoprice with over 1200 USB-C compatible products to choose from.

Wait! Now you're claiming you're being forced to buy a new MBP? Amazing!

1. Your Monoprice shop doesn't even load on Chrome or Safari.
2. I've been waiting for an upgrade for some time now for my video/graphic work. I'm not "forced" but I would certainly need a better MBP to improve performance.
 
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Yes, in an office situation where we have ALL our screens already deployed since 2015 and 9 out of 10 employees are using MacBooks, it's unrealistic to justify the expense of additional 5K displays. In a private scenario: people were holding off to buy a new MacBook Pro, not the bonus 5K display that Schiller wants to sell along with it.

So you're mad at people that want a new MBP -and- a new display? You know you don't have to buy a new external display if you buy a new MBP, right? You really should understand that.
 
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Yes, you are not understanding anything. It's not resistance to USBC. It's resistance to forced obsolescence 2 years too early.

What's been made obsolete by USB-C that is not remedied by an inexpensive adapter or cable? Be specific, please. I didn't replace my Dell DP monitor when I got my new USB-C laptop...I bought a $10 USB-C to DP cable and it just works. USB-C didn't obsolete anything, it just made it so you just had super fast ports on your machine that can do any combination of display and data transfer you want. I'll be the first to say I wish my current laptop had come with 4x USB-C instead of 2x USB-C. Way more flexibility and options there. Apple is leading the workstation laptop class in this area.
 
Yes, you are not understanding anything. It's not resistance to USBC. It's resistance to forced obsolescence 2 years too early

Maybe you don't really understand it. If we waited two years many would still say what you just wrote.

Change, especially for we men, is often difficult.
 
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Has anyone in the.. six pages here actually commented on WHAT they would use that much bandwidth for. Can someone share some insight with me, because I'm dying to know how not having 4 full speed controllers is going to hinder you in ANY way imaginable?

Of course few outside hardcore pros (who probably buy a Mac Pro or the 15" anyway) needs 4 full speed TB3 connections. It's just a matter of dollar-to-feature ratio.
 
You're not making it any better. You're not even describing a realistic scenario. We (myself included) already have our equipment, external displays and workflow. SD, HDMI and TB2 connectors are anything but "legacy" in 2016. Colleagues use SD storage extensions. Your "solution" would be to additionally buy the LG 5K display (which Apple didn't even bother to make and market for itself) as well as complete peripheral replacements and/or dongles/USBC hubs. Brilliant. Does it come with a complementary 10K donation?

How is it "one cable everyone can use" when noone has it out of the box? Even a new iPhone 7 user cannot plug their phone to a new MacBook for crying out loud.
Are you seriously talking about how professional your setup is and than making a big deal about how someone buying an iPhone 7 (>$700) and a new MacBook Pro (>2k) can't figure out to buy an additional $19 cable in order to connect the two? That is IF they want to connect the two as for normal use there is zero need. And those that see the need simply buy the cable and move on.
 
This has to do with the number of PCI Express lanes provided by the Intel chips. Thunderbolt 3 needs 4 PCI Express lanes for full throughput. The dual-core chips in the 13" MacBook Pro only have 12 lanes, so that can only support two full speed ports (2x4 lanes) and two ports at half speed (2x2 lanes). The quad-core in 15" MacBook Pro supports up to 16 lanes, which gives 4 full speed thunderbolt ports.
STOP WITH YOUR LOGIC AND BLATANT FACTS! I DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT! (fingers in ears: LA LA LA LA LA....)
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Honestly why not have 2 USB 3 instead of 2 crippled USB c ?
Are you serious??
Because two "crippled" USB c 'gives you' two USB3 and more.
 
What seems botched to you? I think the design and execution is amazing. I can't think of a single thing wrong with it.

  • I do, however, has several questions that will be answered in time…
  • I understand why the Touch Bar display doesn't go all the way to the right-side since that's where Touch ID is, but why not bring the display all the way to the left-side. I don't think there is Touch ID on both sides (just to get that out of the way for completeness-sake). I guess it could be to balance the right and left sides, but it looks a little wonky to me to have the digital Esc key vertically off-center from the Tilde/Backtick key below.
  • Where is the physical power button? I don't see it on top so the far-right edge of the Touch Bar could be pressure sensitive or it could be somewhere else, like the side as with the Mac mini.
  • How will the Touch Bar work with Windows under Boot Camp? We know the T1 chip is essentially the S-series chip, which means it could be running OS X/Darwin as a really stripped down version of watchOS rebuilt for this simple system, not unlike what Apple did for macOS nee Mac OS X to make iOS, or it could just be the HW and a non-OS X/Darwin-based OS. It could also feed directly from the main macOS, potentially even its primary GPU so that it's technically 2 displays. If that's the case (which I doubt) it'll likely be wonky for Windows and you'll probably see someone hack it to get a full Windows OS on that little Touch Bar just because.
Addendum: Regarding the Touch Bar, how does this carry over to desktop Macs with BT keyboards? I think the T1 likely contains the GPU needed for the display, but there are performance, cost, security concerns with a Touch Bar, Touch ID, and Apple Pay on a Bluetooth keyboard. The new models with a built-in battery and a Lightning port for charging could be made more dense with a larger battery, and since we already have Apple Pay payments with current Macs via the Apple Watch, Apple already believes it has the security worked out, but it's not simple engineering to make this work as seamlessly as in last week's demo.
Apple has said the Touch Bar functions as a normal row of FN keys in Boot Camp. Apple will write a driver in Windows specifically for it.
 
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I'm a newbie on these forums; but, this seems like a completely 'meh' update. I was expecting innovation on a large scale, like we've known apple to do. But, with this update I think the innovation has moved more to their business model than their product, which is disappointing.

So much so that I actually watched the Microsoft Surface Studio presentation. I was presently surprised. I'm not comparing the products to on another in the hardware/specs sense. But, the innovation behind the Surface Studio was well beyond what I've seen from Apple lately. The only question I had for the Surface folks was "Can it run MacOS?"

I soo wanted to justify an upgrade but cannot as it's expensive and I'd have to buy every freaking dongle ever made to make my life workable. I get phasing out ports to new standards. But, this is overkill. Also, removing MagSafe was, in my opinion, a poor choice. MagSafe saves notebooks. (Okay, that may be more of a college flashback. But, then again, I just tripped over my cord at Starbucks yesterday.) (I just read that they aren't including the extension cord now. That's another $20. #sadday #cheapbutnot)
 
Why can't be honest and upfront about these things?
At least label them differently. Who's going to actually know these things? Do real Pros simply ignore the 13'?
What happened to simplicity?
Because they offer all other Thunderbolt 3 advantages including faster charging and support for peripherals. And it is likely any existing Thunderbolt 2 peripherals work with the adapter exactly as they do on the older MacBook Pros that do not have Thunderbolt 3.

Apple has provided more Thunderbolt ports than anyone else on the market and people are still complaining. It makes no sense. Apple never has and never will support legacy ports any longer than it has to. Anyone who listened to the MacBook introduction last year knows they have embraced USB-C and with the Pro they have embraced Thunderbolt 3. Now we can use any high quality USB-C charger and are no longer tied to proprietary chargers. That's a good thing. And USB-C cables are becoming much more readily available.
 
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I'm a newbie on these forums; but, this seems like a completely 'meh' update. I was expecting innovation on a large scale, like we've known apple to do. But, with this update I think the innovation has moved more to their business model than their product, which is disappointing.

So much so that I actually watched the Microsoft Surface Studio presentation. I was presently surprised. I'm not comparing the products to on another in the hardware/specs sense. But, the innovation behind the Surface Studio was well beyond what I've seen from Apple lately. The only question I had for the Surface folks was "Can it run MacOS?"

I soo wanted to justify an upgrade but cannot as it's expensive and I'd have to buy every freaking dongle ever made to make my life workable. I get phasing out ports to new standards. But, this is overkill. Also, removing MagSafe was, in my opinion, a poor choice. MagSafe saves notebooks. (Okay, that may be more of a college flashback. But, then again, I just tripped over my cord at Starbucks yesterday.) (I just read that they aren't including the extension cord now. That's another $20. #sadday #cheapbutnot)
The transition to USB-C requires a one-time investment in new cables. USB-C will be around for a long time. Remember people said the same when Apple dropped the DVD drive and Ethernet (and DVI etc). Displays and Ethernet have long required adapters. There are USB-C to lightning cables now.
 
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How many actually need that bandwidth on even ONE port much less 3 to 4? And are actually in the market for the 13" Pro right now? How many were truly planning to get the 13" and hook up 4 TB3 devices that need that bandwidth? How many pay zero attention to far more significant positives, from screen quality to giant trackpad?



Ignore the massive troll swamp that MacRumors forums has become. It makes no more sense to try and reason with trolls than to try and talk a group of flies out of not landing on something the dog left on the lawn--it's in their nature.
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Because they offer all other Thunderbolt 3 advantages including faster charging and support for peripherals. And it is likely any existing Thunderbolt 2 peripherals work with the adapter exactly as they do on the older MacBook Pros that do not have Thunderbolt 3.

Apple has provided more Thunderbolt ports than anyone else on the market and people are still complaining. It makes no sense. Apple never has and never will support legacy ports any longer than it has to. Anyone who listened to the MacBook introduction last year knows they have embraced USB-C and with the Pro they have embraced Thunderbolt 3. Now we can use any high quality USB-C charger and are no longer tied to proprietary chargers. That's a good thing. And USB-C cables are becoming much more readily available.


Of course it makes no sense. You are trying to reason with primarily trolls. Apple doesn't worry about them, why should you? Apple could have priced the new laptops at $99 and they would still complain that the logo didn't light up anymore.
 
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Yet, I can guarantee you, that you would have complained even more if the headphone jack were gone as well. This is a game where Apple cannot win: remove a legacy port and be castigated for it, leave it and be castigated for making a half-ass effort on a new computer.

I doubt it. I've only used the headphone jack on a MacBook, probably three times, and all decades ago with non-Bluetooth speakers which have since died, been lost, stolen, given away, tossed. I wouldn't ever likely use one in the future either.

It just seems odd that Apple would characteristic the removal of the headphone jack as 'courage', and yet still cling to it on the MacBook line, and then ditch the USB and HDMI ports, along with Magsafe. Doesn't make much sense...
 
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In Jonny Ive's video, he said it had "Uncompromising performance". Well the 16gig ram is completely against that. Who cares if it ruins the battery life. People needing 32 will be using the machine plugged in I can guarantee it because they'll be running programs that max out the CPU as well.

And no Mac Pro! Scandal.
 
I used Apple displays and systems throughout my business as they disappeared or blended in with the desks and interior aesthetics, not because of the brand. Clients were greeted at the front desk to the back of house editing studio's with Apple systems. They sat in front of my setup of 4 mounted 30" displays that fit perfectly together with then current tech, aluminum enclosures, bright and consistent panels, and hidden wires. It was a statement, not of grandiosity or snobbery, but that I take my work seriously. Clients felt more at ease in a professional yet simple environment without inconsistent plastic displays, cables everywhere, drives and systems thrown about. There was a reason professionals such as Annie Leibovitz and editing studio's used Apple systems - they were designed to work together.

As a professional or everyday consumer, anyone could walk into an Apple Store and find everything they need right there. Displays, Mac's, AppleCare - even .Mac when it was an annual service that synced more than Contacts and Emails. The displays sold Mac's, Mac's sold displays, neither ate into iMac's as they weren't marketed for professionals using a workstation Power Mac or Mac Pro. PowerBooks were perfect for the mobile professional. Now the stores are crowded, Mac's are outdated and overpriced, customers will have to find displays elsewhere, and most floor specialists don't know the difference between integrated and dedicated graphics, RAM, HDD vs SSD.

The stores reflected Apple's doctrine - the harmony of form and function. Now they reflect the discord within the company itself. Apple doesn't know what it wants to be, the focus that brought it back to life is gone and it shows.

All of this ^^^^
 
Apple is becoming a company I barely recognize. What happened to their practice of delighting us with "magical" technology. It's now getting to a point where I'm thinking, "I wonder in how many ways this new product is going to disappoint me?"

Why do you think that way?

Enjoy what is given. Will you even utilize TB3 speeds on all 4 ports on a 13" that doesn't even have a dedicated gpu.

It's like having Ferrari build make 1 of the 4 tires only capable of 168mph instead of 190+.

Are you really ever going to go that speed?
 
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