Tile Decries Apple's iOS 13 Location Tracking Changes, Calls on Congress to 'Level the Playing Field' [Updated]

[Dave-Z]

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand I appreciate Apple limiting tracking, on the other hand changes in iOS 13 have had a real, negative impact on how I use my device. My XMPP client pretty much never works unless I'm in it (i.e. I don't receive notifications anymore). iOS 12 and before it was never an issue. The change is a result of Apple cracking down on Facebook et al. using various APIs to track users. The problem, of course, is that the small indie developer of the app I'm using now basically has a messaging app that barely works. So I can understand Tile's position that their product would be impacted by these changes.

Speaking rhetorically, surely there is a compromise to all of this? The iPhone platform hinges on apps and if quality developers are being limited that hurts the ecosystem, no?

 

[Khedron]

Apple fans are deluded

Apple changes their software to introduce new rules that break third party functionality, exclude their own products from following the same rules, and the response is just "this is not anti-competitive because Tile could make their own phones"

 

[farewelwilliams]

Apple was the little guy once and some of us are old enough to remember them being whiners...hell they still whine now

ok?

 

[iGeneo]

Well, looks like Apple will now offer the "Always allow" option. (article updated)

 

[TriBruin]

I personally think what Tile is making has no future. Although I am using it, I only rang the buzzer locally when I cannot find my wallet. The innovation part and value added part of Tile is it builds a network to share the finds of others’ locations. It is a big issue for Tile that the idea breaks privacy! It is ok to sell this concept and make the startup running few years ago. Now, privacy are causing more concern to the public, that request 3rd party granting privacy access can be expected to receive resistence.
IMO, Tile product will comes to its end in the near future. Any products can ran locally with BLE and fit into a wallet could be replacement for me. And if Apple builds its find network, the day counts — Tile cannot have same magnitude of ‘beacons’ as Apple’ iPhones.

And you are almost making Tile's point for them. Apple is intentionally (though the cover of Privacy) limiting 3rd party app and their functionality and making it more difficult to use. To use some of the more advanced features of Tile (remote location, crowd sourcing of tile locations), you have to not only explicitly turn on your own "Always Allow" for location service for the Tile App, you are relying on every other Tile user to do the same. Considering the default in iOS13 is to not allow access and it requires several steps to enable full location services, Apple is crippling some of Tiles features.

Now, let's say Apple releases their "Airtags". Do you think that they are going require every user to explicitly enable Always Allow just for the tags. Probably not. (In fact, since it appears that these tags will integrate with Find My, most users will already have accepted to always be tracked in the background, so there will be no need to ask for any more access.) Plus, Apple will have the immediate advantage of utilizing ALL iPhones to crowd source the tags. Tile (or any company) can never compete with that.

Let's take another example: AirPods. Most people agree that AirPods are decent enough sounding for everyday use, but there are definitely better (and worse) headphones out there. So why do iPhone users, overwhelming, choose AirPods? Maybe because they are so integrated in to the ecosystem, way deeper than any other company could offer. Show me any other audio device, besides AirPods and Beats, that automatically are linked to ALL your Apple devices once you pair it to one device? Or, seamlessly link to the Music controls to change settings? If there are any, I am not aware.

Another example? How about responding to texts via a Smartwatch? Anyone know of a Smartwatch, other than the Watch that allow users to respond to texts and iMessages? Why not? How come Apple is allowed to have an API in to the message system and not other vendors? Doesn't that make the Watch a much more attractive device?

Apple is most certainly using private APIs that they do NOT allow third party vendors to use to give themselves an advantage in features and usability. Now, I am not saying that Apple is necessary doing bad things or that their commitment to Privacy is a cover, but you have to acknowledge that Apple is able to take advantage of features that no other party can by restricting access to certain APIs.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

I have a Tile and sometimes use the app, but there is absolutely no reason why the app needs constant access to your location. When I need to find my keys, I open the app and press the "Ring" button...even at that point, Tile has no reason to know my location. The app still works if you disable location access but it pesters you incessantly to re-enable location services.

It wants your location so it can anonymously track other tile devices in your vicinity so that people who lost theirs can get a ballpark idea of where they left their keys or their purse.

 

[Unity451]

As any Shark Tank watcher knows... A product is not a business. I love the concept of Tile, but if their whole business is based on that single product then it's doomed to fail eventually.

 

[dugbug]

Apple fans are deluded

Apple changes their software to introduce new rules that break third party functionality, exclude their own products from following the same rules, and the response is just "this is not anti-competitive because Tile could make their own phones"

These new rules were part of an escallating battle with apps gathering data for tracking purposes. Ever wonder why so many apps required 'bluetooth' access after the update but never contained bluetooth functionality?

What apple is doing now is iterating on their choices as the pendulum swings back and forth. This seems completely normal to me given the ridiculous epidemic in tracking.

 

[ersan191]

Firstly, the idea of complaining about a product that is nothing more than a rumor is absolutely ridiculous - but since we are speaking in hypotheticals here:

If Apple opened up the entirety of the location tracking and sharing API that they are building for AirTags to "make the playing field level" for Tile then guess what, people would still buy AirTags because they are going to have astronomically better hardware and software than crappy Tile has now. Tile is a mediocre product with no competition.

 

[zorinlynx]

I'm not sure why it's so hard for Tile to provide instructions on how to enable always on location tracking. Sure it takes a couple of extra steps, but have we become so lazy and incapable that we can't follow simple instructions?

 

[Tough_Critic]

Perhaps Apple, Google et. al. have too much de facto control over the chances of success for small companies. But so many smaller companies owe their very existence to the innovation capabilities of Big Tech.

 

[duervo]

So far, I have seen replies from only two forum members that seem to actually understand the issue here.

Most of the rest have zeroed in on the title of the article, and don’t even seem to be aware that there are other companies, besides Tile, contributing to these hearings .

Macrumors is partly to blame for this (choice of wording in the title.)

 

[Manatee]

Damn you, Apple! Your products are too good!

So a big company shouldn’t be allowed to include location tracking in their product?

I’ll admit, something feels wrong when a company adds a feature that totally wipes out another company that was well-known for that product, but given the broad availability of this technology, I don’t think Apple is doing anything illegal. And they’ll probably integrate it well with their OS.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

I do not trust Tile with constant location access. I don't see why it needs it. It also wants you to enable backgrounding for the app. The thing is.. when you turn it off you get 3-4 pop-ups every time you open the app asking you to enable everything. It also sends you notifications saying Tile is not running or that location services are off.

I am definitely not getting another Tile if Apple comes out with a tracker. Really dislike the company's practice of wanting all your data.

Hi, please go back and read ActionableMango’s post about how Tile works. It looks like you missed it.

 

[Danno149]

Tile is completely justified in this. I watched Microsoft do the same thing to tons of software applications since Windows 3.1 - most of you are too young to understand this predatory process. Hopefully Tile's patents are sufficiently strong and they can twist the knife in Apple. (Also to simbo123: Tile has had replaceable batteries for a few years. You might want to bone up on your exposition of 'facts.')

 

[randyhudson]

The tile app is a piece of crap. It constantly warns you about not having access to location, and not being able to run in the background. Neither of these permissions are necessary to find your keys. Tile is only asking for these unnecessary, battery-draining, privacy-slurping permissions so they can use your device to sell a service to other people at your expense.

 

[anonnymouse]

I have a Tile and sometimes use the app, but there is absolutely no reason why the app needs constant access to your location. When I need to find my keys, I open the app and press the "Ring" button...even at that point, Tile has no reason to know my location. The app still works if you disable location access but it pesters you incessantly to re-enable location services.

Sure, a subset of Tile's customers (like you) only want to locally find their Tiled device within nearby bluetooth range. If that's you, then just disable location services as you have suggested for yourself.

However, a large part of Tile's appeal is the crowdsourced find capability. If I have lost an object with a Tile attached (or it was stolen/left behind/you name it), I *want* others to provide the kindness of leaving their location services enabled for the Tile App. That's literally why their product works so well - you leverage everyone else's devices, just like Find My works for Apple devices. If your iPhone sees a Tile bluetooth ID, it's going to relay that to Tile's servers along with the location of your mobile device to give a rough approximation where that Tile was last seen.

I have received many many notifications over the years by people anonymously thanking me via their Tile app for having pinged their lost device for them. No individual users know where other users are, or for whom specifically they have helped find lost Tiles. Tile keeps occasional location updates stored of Tile Premium subscribers' trackers, not you.

If you don't want to help others (like they might help you in the future), then turn your location off and move along.

The incessantly part of your complaint needs to be directed at Apple for their changes in iOS, not Tile.

 

[Danno149]

Well Tile shouldn’t be selling products with non-rechargeable/non-replaceable batteries. Once Apple come out with their tile it will revolutionise tracking of products all over the world in a secure way thanks to the clever Public/Private key system they’ve developed with iOS 13.

Tile has had replaceable batteries for a few years. Duh.

 

[twolf2919]

If browser downloads of apps was possible on iPhone (with user express consent), developers would flee the iOS App Store because Apple’s policies are in their best business interest rather than the developers business interest. Competition is definitely needed to encourage the iOS App Store to be more developer friendly. Apple’s monopolistic attitude into forcing things on developers will backfire when Europe or the US Supreme Court rule it in violation of anti-trust laws next year, as this bullying attitude will be remembered by the developers (especially ones with competing apps). On macs, users can download apps from a browser...why can’t they on iPhone?

Apple's iPhone business model and success is predicated, in large part, on making application purchases easy and *safe*. To do that, Apple provides a single place from which to get applications - applications that have been vetted. In a capitalist society, it's not the government's place to intrude on a private business' business model and secret for success! As a customer, I don't want Apple to allow downloads - even with consent from user - from arbitrary web sites! What if my daughter unknowingly said 'yes' when she followed some links and unknowingly said 'yes'? I and millions of other iDevice customers bought our devices so we wouldn't have to worry about that possibility. As an investor I certainly wouldn't like it if Apple had to open up to letting other sites download apps into iDevices - I bought AAPL share with a certain expectation of AAPL's risk profile w.r.t. malicious code making it onto devices.

It's not like there are no alternatives to Apple's devices. Every purchase is about tradeoffs: if it's important to you to download from something other than one centralized App Store, get a product that allows that! If enough folks choose th alternatives with their wallets, then Apple might change their minds - it's a for-profit company, after all. But there's no need at all to get the government(s) involved.

 

[Han Xiao]

And you are almost making Tile's point for them. Apple is intentionally (though the cover of Privacy) limiting 3rd party app and their functionality and making it more difficult to use. To use some of the more advanced features of Tile (remote location, crowd sourcing of tile locations), you have to not only explicitly turn on your own "Always Allow" for location service for the Tile App, you are relying on every other Tile user to do the same. Considering the default in iOS13 is to not allow access and it requires several steps to enable full location services, Apple is crippling some of Tiles features.

Re, Tile, I do not think it is Apple’s fault, grant it allows user enable ‘always use location’ for a specific app.
Do not assume me not knowing the details on Tile‘s implementations, benefits and drawbacks. I specific not want to share my location unless a scenario I have to. All those privacy concerns are my reason to pay 2000 CAD on a iphone instead gets cheaper Androids. If Apple allows the privacy access by default, then I am not buying Apple’s products.

Re. Airpods, Apple used to not open its NFC API. If it is still the case, we should blame is not doing enough to making its API public.

 

[randyhudson]

and then the fixed, non rechargable battery issue was the last straw.

I'm done with Tile. Interesting idea, bad product. I'm looking forward to seeing what Apple pull out, especially as next year I'll be upgrading my 7 plus.

My tile has a replaceable battery. Do you really expect apple to offer the same? Have you heard of the Apple Watch? AirPods? iPads? Good luck with that

 

[Stevez67]

And all that location data Tile is acquiring is just an unavoidable and unfortunate coincidence and is being deleted and not sold for profit ... nope ... no way ... gotta trust Tile because use case scenario ... HARD NO.

 

[ersan191]

I don’t see Tile’s end game in this. If Apple is developing a competing tracker, but the company is broken up by anti-trust litigation, then the tracker company is spunoff and they still have a successful product that competes with Tile.

I think this is a hail-mary to try and get Apple to not release the product in the first place so they don't get slapped with an antitrust suit over something they probably don't even care that much about. Whatever it is, it's pathetic.

 

[Westside guy]

Well Tile shouldn’t be selling products with non-rechargeable/non-replaceable batteries.

This is no longer true, although it was the case for way too long. And the non-replaceable battery issue is why I never bought any Tile products...

Anyway, I just bought my first Tiles a few weeks ago - now that they finally come with replaceable batteries. Four of them for fifty bucks didn't seem like a bad price.

 

[ersan191]

My tile has a replaceable battery. Do you really expect apple to offer the same? Have you heard of the Apple Watch? AirPods? iPads? Good luck with that

It only took them 6 years to offer replaceable batteries, how noble of them. Interestingly enough all of those products you mentioned can be recharged, you don't have to throw them away when the battery dies the first time.