Tile Decries Apple's iOS 13 Location Tracking Changes, Calls on Congress to 'Level the Playing Field' [Updated]

[Geckotek]

Another reason to dump the Tiles I own. Can’t wait for Apple to release tags so I can finally do it. Tile is a crap company that can’t even fully release the most basic of features properly.
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I have a Tile and sometimes use the app, but there is absolutely no reason why the app needs constant access to your location. When I need to find my keys, I open the app and press the "Ring" button...even at that point, Tile has no reason to know my location. The app still works if you disable location access but it pesters you incessantly to re-enable location services.

That only makes sense if you’re only using it to locate a device nearby. It actually does need location access to help you identify WHERE you left a device that doesn’t happen to be nearby. (Unless another Tile user that DOES allow location access happens to be near it.)
However, their unexplainable inability to implement true geofencing and proximity alerts makes the location access almost worthless.

 

[amnesia0287]

Only if you define the market as “iOS Phones”. If the market is smart phones, Apple does not control enough of it to be a monopoly.

It’s even more complicated than that. Because Apple’s ecosystem is entirely closed. Only Apple hardware runs Apple software (save hackintosh but imo that doesn’t count). To me the argument that Apple should give other people equal access to their hardware and software simply for being market leaders (which they aren’t aside from profit) is akin to Microsoft demanding they be given the ability to run Playstation games because Sony is the market leader.

Tile is perfectly welcome to create phones where they have open access to your location. There is nothing stopping them. They could even leverage android. I could understand the argument more if this was happening on android, but Apple owns their entire ecosystem top to bottom. There are alternatives to Apple products and there is nothing Apple is doing that others couldn’t duplicate.

This is a big part of the reason Apple has always prevented their code (save hacks) from running on others hardware.

Another good example would be complaining about grocery stores selling their own brand products for less along side brand names. Or advertising only their own products. Etc.

Uber isn’t required to offer rides via Lyft.

There is no law that guarantees others equal access to closed or proprietary platforms.

Also, let’s remember, patents don’t cover ideas, they cover implementations. There is absolutely zero evidence that the Apple implementation is remotely similar to tiles.

The crux or this issue is Tile seems to believe that if location services are enabled they should and deserve the same access as Apple has, but this argument holds no water. When I enable location services on my APPLE iPhone, it is with the understanding I am sharing some location data with Apple and no one else. Apple repeatedly talks about how they don’t sell this user data and it’s anonymized in every way they can manage. If someone else wants my location data, they too should have to ask for it. For example I always use google maps rather than apples native app, and while i understand google would love my location data 24/7 for things such as traffic and shopping patterns and such, I am not comfortable with them having it, so I choose only while app is opened. There is not a single app that I would want to have location access 24/7.

And it is not as of Apple doesn’t give you the same abilities to control location services for their own functions as shown in these settings:

The newest iOS update also enabled disabling of the UWB chip entirely should you choose that.

As I said before, I get why tile wants it, but that doesn’t mean they have any right to it at all.

Edit: the find my app doesn’t even have always as an option unlike some apps:

 

[Geckotek]

I do use Tile products and like them. That said, given how long it took tile to offer replaceable batteries and how they restrict you to the most basic functionality unless you pay $30/year for the App, they are a vile company that is not well liked by their customers, so they've left themselves vulnerable to be ruined by a company like Apple. That's why Tile is terrified of Apple, Tile's own customers despise them. I've been looking forward to Apple's trackers for ages, I never "upgraded" to the replacable battery Tiles just based on early Apple rumors, and I plan to dump Tile for Apple as soon as Apple's product launches.

Amen brutha!

 

[oosamon]

Sounds like lawfare to me. I‘ll bet Tile‘s board knows its days are numbered and is hoping Apple will make its shareholders an offer.

 

[insomniac86]

I have a Tile and sometimes use the app, but there is absolutely no reason why the app needs constant access to your location. When I need to find my keys, I open the app and press the "Ring" button...even at that point, Tile has no reason to know my location. The app still works if you disable location access but it pesters you incessantly to re-enable location services.

Yes there is. That's how the crowed sourcing works when you mark an item as lost.
If everyone had blocked access, no one could find your lost item.

 

[amnesia0287]

Yes there is. That's how the crowed sourcing works when you mark an item as lost.
If everyone had blocked access, no one could find your lost item.

Now you just need to convince the 900 million iPhone users to always share their location data with a company who clearly has access to view that location data and use it to track people.

straight from their own privacy policy:

1. We use your Location Information to provide the Services and may use your Location Information to promote the Services or provide you with offers. However, your Location Information is never shared with other users unless you choose to share it through our Services.

They also say the data is anonymized, but given you can send an anonymous thanks to the person who found your device, this process is clearly reversible.

Read their privacy policy:

Privacy Policy | Tile

Tile:

www.thetileapp.com

Among the notable points they mention they use your data to “prevent potentially prohibited or illegal activities” without stating what or how that is done. They also state “We may share this information within Tile and with third parties for our or their purposes in an anonymized or aggregated form that is designed to prevent anyone from identifying you.” But if you read how the data is anonymized it is simply though a hashing algorithm, and while hashes might not be reversible, if you know the hashing algorithm and the value being hashed, you can simply compute the hash again and then search your data for it.

One of the more telling lines:

1. For example, we may disclose information to our service providers in order to enable them to communicate with you on our behalf. We may also disclose information to platform providers, such as Facebook, in order to permit such providers to serve ads and promote the Services on our behalf on such platforms. To the extent possible, your personal information will be stored in hashed or obfuscated form.

ie, we will protect your data... except when we “can’t”.

1. We may share with third parties, including advertisers and service providers, anonymized, aggregated data we collect about you and other users, such as de-identified demographic information, de-identified Location Information, and information about the computer or device from which you access the Services, or the results of hashing your email address.

Research micro targeting, this is exactly the kinda of data needed to use it.

And finally:

1. Like other companies, we may disclose your information to government or law enforcement officials or private parties as we, in our sole discretion, believe is necessary to (i) comply with a law, regulation, or legal request; (ii) protect the safety of any person; (iii) address potential violations of our Privacy Policy or terms of service; (iv) investigate fraud, security, or technical issues; or (v) protect Tile’s rights or property, our employees, users and the public.
   In addition, if we are acquired by a third-party as a result of a transaction such as a merger, acquisition or asset sale or if our assets are acquired by a third-party, in the event we go out of business or enter bankruptcy, some or all of our assets - including any information collected from or about you - may be disclosed or transferred to a third-party acquirer in connection with the transaction.

To me this basically says we have access to any data we want because pretty much anything could fall under one of these, especially “technical issues”. And then they are outright saying if they get acquired someone could totally just take that data and do whatever they want to do with it. Oops.

Sorry, but my distrust of some random small company that probably wants to be acquired simply doesn’t match or exceed my altruism. I’d wager that’s true of most people.

 

[urtules]

I have a Tile and sometimes use the app, but there is absolutely no reason why the app needs constant access to your location. When I need to find my keys, I open the app and press the "Ring" button...even at that point, Tile has no reason to know my location. The app still works if you disable location access but it pesters you incessantly to re-enable location services.

I wanted to type same thing here. I own 1 tile peace to find my keys and I never gave it access to location. Still design of the app is so poor, it constantly trying to ask for your location. The product perfectly functional without the location. I don't need to see where I left something, and I don't trust Tile with my location. I have a suspicion they want to take advantage of this data.

 

[itdk92]

Can't believe Tile is complaining like a little kid instead of focusing 100% in the next move for their business.

 

[himanshumodi]

Heaven forbid a company become big and successful and generate money for its shareholders, employees, and third-party beneficiaries. If you're a small business there are advantages to that - you can be more nimble, adapt more easily, etc. than a large corporation. But instead, these companies complain to the government - who is all too happy to tear into any big money-maker as that is a direct threat to their desired socialist control state.

This actually reads like the summary of Atlas Shrugged plot!

 

[Stromos]

Man the comments are amazing on this article.

People arguing if always on location is required....
No its not... Say it again no its not. It's required for extra features and to make the Tile location cloud possible. Guess what? I'm not constantly giving out my location and battery life to a third party to make their product better. Tile is banking on stupidity. This is borderline a botnet to take advantage of a device. Yes you can opt out but that shouldn't mean the app constantly nags you to join the cloud. I get some people buy tile for this functionality but you can't force someone else to help you find your lost device. My phone my battery life my data plan.

Why would an Apple product be superior? Because to start Apple has a very strong stance on privacy. I know Apple is masking my location data to the best of their ability Tile not so much. Apple could make a better product even without the battery drain. Apple Ecosystem wins here. Lets picture a world where the Apple Tag Cloud is powered not just off phones for people who opt-in and are okay with battery drain, but also all plugged in Homepods and Computers being part of the location mesh. Apple also has pull to have beacons at that local Starbucks or wherever to find that device not at home. The encryption and protection of data all rolled in.

Tile could put out beacon devices that Tile people buy and put in their house. But what do they bring to the table to motivate people to do so? They could build beacons and partner with shops but that costs money they obviously don't want to invest in. Funny how that works. There are things that could be done but they instead what to get protected and bailed out.

Sears could have taken their catalog online well before Amazon existed. Didn't want to invest in it. The list goes on and on. You had your shot Tile...

 

[imola.zhp]

Wow, interesting comments...

Tiles are not cheap, we own several. How do you think customers of Tile would feel about their existing products, and possible future purchases, if they did not try to fight Apple? Now that the Tiles on our key rings have user-replaceable batteries I don't see any reason to change brands, ever. But I realize I'm on a mostly Pro-Apple site here so some people are going to want as much Apple in their lives as possible.

Those that say the app doesn't need access to their location in the background have, obviously, forgotten one of Tile's original features; leveraging other Tile users to find your items when your items are NOT within range. Sure, when your in your own home, open the app and find your items. But what about when you've left your item somewhere else? If I leave an item at a restaurant or heaven forbid I'm walking outdoors somewhere and an item falls out of a pocket the Tile app leverages other Tile users to attempt to help find the device. If someone else walks by my item(s) and they are a Tile user, I would be notified that someone just walked by my item(s) and given an approximate location of where they are located.

This is the feature it seems like a lot of commenters here have forgotten and if you recall Apple's announcement about "find my" you'll see that devices are found by bluetooth broadcasting and leveraging other apple users; hello, its the same thing. One can only surmise that any future Apple Tags would work the same way. So Apple will leverage your location, just as Tile use to, to help other users find their items.

 

[icilies]

Um. Tile needs to fire that lawyer. It was near unbearable listening to her speak. Holy Smokes.

 

[Stromos]

Wow, interesting comments...

Tiles are not cheap, we own several. How do you think customers of Tile would feel about their existing products, and possible future purchases, if they did not try to fight Apple? Now that the Tiles on our key rings have user-replaceable batteries I don't see any reason to change brands, ever. But I realize I'm on a mostly Pro-Apple site here so some people are going to want as much Apple in their lives as possible.

Those that say the app doesn't need access to their location in the background have, obviously, forgotten one of Tile's original features; leveraging other Tile users to find your items when your items are NOT within range. Sure, when your in your own home, open the app and find your items. But what about when you've left your item somewhere else? If I leave an item at a restaurant or heaven forbid I'm walking outdoors somewhere and an item falls out of a pocket the Tile app leverages other Tile users to attempt to help find the device. If someone else walks by my item(s) and they are a Tile user, I would be notified that someone just walked by my item(s) and given an approximate location of where they are located.

This is the feature it seems like a lot of commenters here have forgotten and if you recall Apple's announcement about "find my" you'll see that devices are found by bluetooth broadcasting and leveraging other apple users; hello, its the same thing. One can only surmise that any future Apple Tags would work the same way. So Apple will leverage your location, just as Tile use to, to help other users find their items.

Native background services are not the same as an app running in the background. The more apps in the background the more battery drain. People are not required to help you find your device. Apple's system will be able to leverage more than just phones. Apple's system will be able to leverage low power proprietary communications a third party device would never be able to leverage because they have to use a standard. It's amazing that people think that just because someone owns a Tile they need to dedicate their device's resources to the "Tile Network" it's a choice and it should be very clear that the phone is being used in this fashion. If people are fully informed and opt-in great. If people don't opt-in you don't harass them constantly to do so. It's pretty simple to me.

Wouldn't it be great if the goverment just made all phones send data to Tile? Then their product would be the best! See how that works? You want your "Tile Network" to be better then talk to your fellow Tile users and try to get them to opt-in. Good Luck.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Tiles are not cheap, we own several. How do you think customers of Tile would feel about their existing products, and possible future purchases, if they did not try to fight Apple?

I own several Tile tags (although I do not really use them), so I will answer from that perspective. I would be very happy if Tile tried to “fight Apple” but building a better product that was cross platform, private, battery efficient and secure. I am not at all happy that they are trying to “fight Apple” by having the government prevent Apple from competing with them. I choose not to use their product because I read their ”[you get no] Privacy Policy” and decided that I did not trust them enough to enable their app on my iPhone.

Now that the Tiles on our key rings have user-replaceable batteries I don't see any reason to change brands, ever. But I realize I'm on a mostly Pro-Apple site here so some people are going to want as much Apple in their lives as possible.

I will provide you two reasons to switch to Apple tags if they get released: size of the participant base and accuracy of the location (assuming it takes advantage of UWB). Tile has a tiny user base and an even smaller base of people who provide always on tracking to them. If your Tile trackers work as well as you want, and you do not care about any of the other benefits other products might have, that is great for you. However, I would prefer that Tile (and from your post you) not encourage the government from preventing other, better solutions from being created, just because they compete with Tile.

Those that say the app doesn't need access to their location in the background have, obviously, forgotten one of Tile's original features; leveraging other Tile users to find your items when your items are NOT within range.

As has been said, it needs that access if I want that feature. Nothing would have prevented Tile from implementing their system with a similar privacy approach to what Apple has disclosed. They chose not to do that either because they were not technically sophisticated enough to do it, or they really want to sell my data and their tags just enable them to get on customer devices (charging the customers for the benefit).

This is the feature it seems like a lot of commenters here have forgotten and if you recall Apple's announcement about "find my" you'll see that devices are found by bluetooth broadcasting and leveraging other apple users; hello, its the same thing.

In the broadest sense they are the same thing, except that Apple’s approach is all about maintaining user privacy and Tile’s is about vacuuming up as much data as possible. That may not matter to you, but it certainly matters to me (and many others).

One can only surmise that any future Apple Tags would work the same way. So Apple will leverage your location, just as Tile use to, to help other users find their items.

If Apple does release a tag product, Apple will ask users to opt in to this functionality (just as it has done for years). Apple is not preventing Tile from having its users enable always on tracking, it just wants to make sure that users do it explicitly. If people really value their Tile trackers and trust the company with their personal data, they will enroll. If they do not, they will not. I suspect that Tile’s problem is that during the whole time they were not restricted as they now are, they were not able to build enough of a network and a good enough user experience to make customers go through any effort for them at all.

That is completely their problem, not one of Apple’s creation.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

In Tile's case they are competing against a 10 year old function that overlaps Apples, "find my" that Apple implemented. Apple can probably implement a "find my devices" better because they had a great heaed start. However, what Tile seems to be complaining about is the location toggle, which to me seems silly, and Apple has already said it would address this in a future update.

Now now, now were are curating a virtual reality. The original was "Find My iPhone". That was it. Tile was never created to compete with that, it would be silly. Tile was not about riding your iPhone or iPad, but your bag, keys, walled, whatever. It's a bit like cars and trucks ... same principle, different use cases.

Furthermore, I have no problem with Apple competing with devs, neither do devs. The problem, does Apple competes fairly at the technical level.?That is the issue. The the host (Apple) seams to be building fast tracks for its own business to compete with the third party businesses it hosts. And it's doing it at a large scale. If they were so technically superior than the small dev garage for sure they would not need these kinds of leverages. The fact is, they do to lower the investment by leveraging its power on businesses that are tangent.

I'm not saying its a major problem at the moment, at least for Apple, but if you think innovative tech businesses and customers like me are not watching this think otherwise.

The idea that all this has the best interests of Apple customers, think otherwise. Let me give you a example. My kid wants to start experiment djaying stuff. There are so many Dj apps on the App Store ... great. Looked for Dj apps that integrated with Apple Music (We on a family plan), found none. Because Apple Music integration with third parties is closed down. Yet one of the best Dj Apps integrates with Spotify.

So, now,

So I have 4 options:

1) Sell my Home Pods at a loss and than move to Apple Music. Oh, and by the way move reminders to Google and so on has we use Home Pods a lot for that kind of stuff ... Sounds silly.

2) Wait for Apple to be on par with Spotify regarding opening the API for these kinds of integration. And disappoint my child ... who knows if that will haver happen. Again sounds silly.

3) Apple starts to take on Dj app business .. And ... same thing as 2)

4) Spend more money and have two subscriptions for the same kind of service. Sounds silly.

So its all, loose for me as a customer.

The truth is, that integration facilities provided by the host open's up opportunities for innovation way beyond the original idea. When done right its a good thing for customers, not a bad thing. No integration facilities stiffs innovation and competition.

Anyway, I can see that we fully disagree.

 

[PseudoRegister]

Apple’s monopolistic attitude into forcing things on developers will backfire when Europe or the US Supreme Court rule it in violation of anti-trust laws next year, as this bullying attitude will be remembered by the developers (especially ones with competing apps).

I'm not sure I see the case for a monopoly or anti-trust charge. Here's why:

1. App developers still have access to over 50% of the SmartPhone app market (Android).
2. Apple's relationship to the app store seems similar to me to that of the first owner of a mall. Apple makes all the investments in infrastructure, takes responsibility for ensuring apps don't inadvertently create vulnerabilities for the app's customers, and provides on-going support and maintenance of the infrastructure. Where the mall analogy breaks down is
   • that app developers, once paying for their developer certification, have absolutely free access to the app store, regardless of the volume of downloads. Instead of charging a fixed access fee to anyone who posts an app for download, Apple takes a piece of the action. If you don't want Apple taking a piece of the action, you have an option: don't charge for your app. (And indeed, many developers offer a free version to hook customers, then up-sell them with "pro" versions.)
   • Apple also sells the devices that create app customers in the first place. No iPhones, no app store.

 

[Geckotek]

Anybody that thinks these services don’t need constant location access is an idiot that has never actually used one (or can’t imagine functionality) that offers geofencing and proximity alerts (not talking about just Tile here who can’t seem to get these features right). I don’t disagree with the distrust of the company, but don’t be stupid and ignore the primary functionality of such a device.

 

[brinary001]

Tile must obtain user permission for location access in "deep, hard-to-find smartphone settings"

You're kidding right? Was I the only one who literally laughed out loud when they read that? Since when does the iPhone make ANYTHING "hard to find"? You can search for whatever you're trying to get to right within iOS Spotlight as well as Settings.

I get it, Tile sees the writing on the wall and they know they're about to be history once Apple enters their game, but they're really grasping at straws here. This lawsuit will make for an even more embarrassing end to their company because now they just look like sore losers.

 

[The Californian]

First of all, "Find My" is not new - Just because Apple put a couple of their existing apps together doesn't seem like some grand scheme to put Tile out of business - Tile is doing a good enough job of that on their own. My wife wanted some Tiles so I bought her a few a couple of years ago - they all died within six months, and you can't change the batteries - I contacted Tile and they replaced them, with devices that also died within months. I ended up buying a a few more of their "Sport" version - and they all died within months too. We weren't doing anything crazy with them, and it was just the batteries dying way too fast. Tile is just greedy, they want to create a product that you have to replace annually to create a revolving income - and their product suffers because of it.

 

[insomniac86]

Now you just need to convince the 900 million iPhone users to always share their location data with a company who clearly has access to view that location data and use it to track people.

straight from their own privacy policy:



They also say the data is anonymized, but given you can send an anonymous thanks to the person who found your device, this process is clearly reversible.

Read their privacy policy:

Privacy Policy | Tile

Tile:

www.thetileapp.com

Among the notable points they mention they use your data to “prevent potentially prohibited or illegal activities” without stating what or how that is done. They also state “We may share this information within Tile and with third parties for our or their purposes in an anonymized or aggregated form that is designed to prevent anyone from identifying you.” But if you read how the data is anonymized it is simply though a hashing algorithm, and while hashes might not be reversible, if you know the hashing algorithm and the value being hashed, you can simply compute the hash again and then search your data for it.

One of the more telling lines:



ie, we will protect your data... except when we “can’t”.



Research micro targeting, this is exactly the kinda of data needed to use it.

And finally:



To me this basically says we have access to any data we want because pretty much anything could fall under one of these, especially “technical issues”. And then they are outright saying if they get acquired someone could totally just take that data and do whatever they want to do with it. Oops.

Sorry, but my distrust of some random small company that probably wants to be acquired simply doesn’t match or exceed my altruism. I’d wager that’s true of most people.

Hey I'm not debating if they are ethical with your privacy. Just stating a fact that having the app not being able to track you all the time hinders one of its primary features.

Personally I can't wait for Apple to release their AirTags. That will be a much larger audience to help find items with anyone running iOS 13.

 

[I7guy]

Now now, now were are curating a virtual reality. The original was "Find My iPhone". That was it. Tile was never created to compete with that, it would be silly. Tile was not about riding your iPhone or iPad, but your bag, keys, walled, whatever. It's a bit like cars and trucks ... same principle, different use cases.

Furthermore, I have no problem with Apple competing with devs, neither do devs. The problem, does Apple competes fairly at the technical level.?That is the issue. The the host (Apple) seams to be building fast tracks for its own business to compete with the third party businesses it hosts. And it's doing it at a large scale. If they were so technically superior than the small dev garage for sure they would not need these kinds of leverages. The fact is, they do to lower the investment by leveraging its power on businesses that are tangent.

I'm not saying its a major problem at the moment, at least for Apple, but if you think innovative tech businesses and customers like me are not watching this think otherwise.

The idea that all this has the best interests of Apple customers, think otherwise. Let me give you a example. My kid wants to start experiment djaying stuff. There are so many Dj apps on the App Store ... great. Looked for Dj apps that integrated with Apple Music (We on a family plan), found none. Because Apple Music integration with third parties is closed down. Yet one of the best Dj Apps integrates with Spotify.

So, now,

So I have 4 options:

1) Sell my Home Pods at a loss and than move to Apple Music. Oh, and by the way move reminders to Google and so on has we use Home Pods a lot for that kind of stuff ... Sounds silly.

2) Wait for Apple to be on par with Spotify regarding opening the API for these kinds of integration. And disappoint my child ... who knows if that will haver happen. Again sounds silly.

3) Apple starts to take on Dj app business .. And ... same thing as 2)

4) Spend more money and have two subscriptions for the same kind of service. Sounds silly.

So its all, loose for me as a customer.

The truth is, that integration facilities provided by the host open's up opportunities for innovation way beyond the original idea. When done right its a good thing for customers, not a bad thing. No integration facilities stiffs innovation and competition.

Anyway, I can see that we fully disagree.

Apple started down the path of find my years ago. Then it was ibeacons. Then crowd sourcing to find idevices. They steadily have built up expertise. One can’t patent using Bluetooth to find car keys.

In a similar way Apple Watch competes with Fitbit. (Although Fitbit has dashboard nailed IMO)

At any rate we’ll see how this turns out.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

Apple started down the path of find my years ago. Then it was ibeacons. Then crowd sourcing to find idevices. They steadily have built up expertise. One can’t patent using Bluetooth to find car keys.

It seams that you are increasingly rising the level of abstraction to avoid the specifics. Location tracking its a vast area of research & development and products. That is not the point.

Devs can innovate on top of the host platform insofar as the technical abilities of the host (API's so on and so forth). In fact this is not entirely correct, devs have actually have taken it beyond its abilities. Of course in those cases it is probably not the most efficient approach for the hardware.

The way I see it, Tile did not take on Apple. But actually, that is beside the point really. Why? Apple has many business, at its core being a host of other businesses (App Store, Platforms), they also have the businesses of devices. Tile, Spotify and many others are not taking on that at all.

But even if that was the case, me being a customer, the leveraging should be based purely on quality and value, not so much in building exclusive fast tracks built on the host platform, cross leveraging disparate businesses that the only thing that have in common is technically an operating system (that is the power of Big companies in the digital space).
If Apple had a "small" host business, that would not be much a of an issue. But the company is nolonger that small. The company is now huge, affecting the lives of a population the size of several countries (both people and businesses) ... should I say humanity.

I really love Apple, but one thing I love more than Apple is innovation and quality. These kinds of practices have been shown in history to stiff it. In fact, Apple would probably had already gone in ashes if the EU did not stop MS from pursuing similar practices back in the day, practices similar to what Apple is defending the right to persue with no restrain. Advocating the need of such practice down to Privacy, Customer Safety, so on and so forth is in my view an expedient. By that reasoning there would be no Internet, heck no Press. It’s quite unsettling.

Apple, was once the David and actually have taken on Goliaths. Spotify is another example. Coming from a garage long after MS, Apple and many other, and built a huge business driven by quality and innovation. Actually taking on Apple business (iTunes) in that sector by innovating. So the issue of David vs Goliath is besides the point really.

Has I said I really appreciate Apple history. Striving for quality and innovation in everything they do. The entrepreneurship culture. The vision of developing the world into a better place for humanity . In terms of personal computing., out family only uses Apple devices. I just don't see how leaving innovative devs and businesses at bay as per descreriam plays out in that scheme. In fact, has per my example, amongst others, as a customer I'm feeling instances of shackles being put on innovation in the Apple space leading to having to use products and do less than their potential right now. Case in case the example I shared.

Let's see how that plays out.

 

[I7guy]

It seams that you are increasingly rising the level of abstraction to avoid the specifics. Location tracking its a vast area of research & development and products. That is not the point.

Devs can innovate on top of the host platform insofar as the technical abilities of the host (API's so on and so forth). In fact this is not entirely correct, devs have actually have taken it beyond its abilities. Of course in those cases it is probably not the most efficient approach for the hardware.

The way I see it, Tile did not take on Apple. But actually, that is beside the point really. Why? Apple has many business, at its core being a host of other businesses (App Store, Platforms), they also have the businesses of devices. Tile, Spotify and many others are not taking on that at all.

But even if that was the case, me being a customer, the leveraging should be based purely on quality and value, not so much in building exclusive fast tracks built on the host platform, cross leveraging disparate businesses that the only thing that have in common is technically an operating system (that is the power of Big companies in the digital space).
If Apple had a "small" host business, that would not be much a of an issue. But the company is nolonger that small. The company is now huge, affecting the lives of a population the size of several countries (both people and businesses) ... should I say humanity.

I really love Apple, but one thing I love more than Apple is innovation and quality. These kinds of practices have been shown in history to stiff it. In fact, Apple would probably had already gone in ashes if the EU did not stop MS from pursuing similar practices back in the day, practices similar to what Apple is defending the right to persue with no restrain. Advocating the need of such practice down to Privacy, Customer Safety, so on and so forth is in my view an expedient. By that reasoning there would be no Internet, heck no Press. It’s quite unsettling.

Apple, was once the David and actually have taken on Goliaths. Spotify is another example. Coming from a garage long after MS, Apple and many other, and built a huge business driven by quality and innovation. Actually taking on Apple business (iTunes) in that sector by innovating. So the issue of David vs Goliath is besides the point really.

Has I said I really appreciate Apple history. Striving for quality and innovation in everything they do. The entrepreneurship culture. The vision of developing the world into a better place for humanity . In terms of personal computing., out family only uses Apple devices. I just don't see how leaving innovative devs and businesses at bay as per descreriam plays out in that scheme. In fact, has per my example, amongst others, as a customer I'm feeling instances of shackles being put on innovation in the Apple space leading to having to use products and do less than their potential right now. Case in case the example I shared.

Let's see how that plays out.

We’re having two different conversations:
1. Is what Apple doing right?
2. Is Apple the correct vendor for you?

 

[Nuno Lopes]

We’re having two different conversations:
1. Is what Apple doing right?
2. Is Apple the correct vendor for you?

There you go. The missing argument of X beyond criticism. Furthermore I’m not interested in issues of morale. I leave that to religion.

I am interested in innovation and competition leading to better value along with sustainability.

I believe Apple has been playing really well in that regard with few exceptions. Im concerned that those exceptions become the norm.

These exceptions is what is being discussed. Nothing else.

PS: And yes. If you are advocating for Apple what I’ve described as not a good practice, then it would not be the partner/vendor for me and my family.

The only reason I’m discussing this it’s because I believe that this stuff may be a side effect of good intentions. Rather than behind core tactical decisions made by Apple people.

 

[I7guy]

There you go. The missing argument of X beyond criticism. Furthermore I’m not interested in issues of morale. I leave that to religion.

It would be much easier for me to go android if I thought Apple wasn’t a company I wanted to do business with.

I am interested in innovation and competition leading to better value along with sustainability....

At least that’s what I want out of Apple.