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Tile Decries Apple's iOS 13 Location Tracking Changes, Calls on Congress to 'Level the Playing Field' [Updated]
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Yeah, this makes perfect sense and really, it's why net neutrality is such a stupid idea. If Netflix doesn't want to be throttled on AT&T's network, they can just start their own phone operator and Internet service provider to combat that instead of getting a free ride on AT&T's network.
I sort of want a middle ground. There are lots of areas where the apps needs to use which country / state I am in. And that is fine. I want all apps to be able to know that without asking me anything.
What I dont want is my current accurate location to be known, and every time they need this they will need to ask for my permission to do so.
What I dont want is my current accurate location to be known, and every time they need this they will need to ask for my permission to do so.
Not in this day and age, your mobile phone is a platform. People expect these things to connect to their phone so that they only need a single device.
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A strawman argument, "Its not Apple, its the device maker"
Don't you think in this day and age that trackers would be allowed in the same vane as Apple HomeKit.
Why would you want multiple devices, "An iPod, a Phone, and an Internet Communicator..."
Tile is a privacy nightmare. In order for the trackers to work, you're required to tun on location data permanently for the app (including background). What's worse: the app automatically turns on location history. This can't be disabled and the location data can't be removed, either. I bought some Tiles only to found that out - now they're dog toys.
You’ve never lost anything? Just dropped it?
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I don’t get why he would buy a tile. Obviously hates them.
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When you lose something with a Tile tag, you'll get told where it is if there is any Tile user nearby - as long as they use the app with location enabled. You're participating in a large mesh.
If all the users just turned off location services, the Tile service would be much less valuable for the Tile users.
Unfortunately it’s also non-apple fans that are deluded.
Citation for the below where there is clear evidence of many deluded apple fans:
- Apple changes their software to introduce new rules that break third party functionality
- exclude their own products from the same rules where it wouldn’t cripple the function
- Tile can make their own phones
I was thinking the exact same thing. Find My (iPhone) app has been around forever.... most iPhone users have had it on their phones years before anyone even heard of Tile's existence.
This makes me want to ditch my Tiles immediately. I'm a Tile user and I'm not confused at all. No third party app or hardware should have easy access to my location data, but if I want to grant such access it is still very easy. They are not, as Tile complains, "deep, hard-to-find smartphone settings." Just update your support docs and get on with it. I'm already close to ditching Tile just because their products have been unreliable for me.
I've been using Tile Trackers for maybe about a year now, and they haven't lived up to my modest expectations for them. They have occasionally proven useful when looking for a misplaced wallet or keys in my home (although on some occasions they would not sound off when prompted), but the location based alerts (my most desired feature) don't work well. I understand this is still kind of a beta feature for Tile, and I've been providing feedback to Tile for the past year via their app and it's usually along the lines of: I got an alert that I left my house without my tile, but the tile is in my pocket... or I got an alert that I left the house without my tile (and I really did) but the notification came 15 or 20 minutes after I left home.
If Apple sells a tracking tag that actually works and alerts me appropriately, I will buy it. I guess the bad news for Tile is that Apple can better integrate their own devices, and as more third party developers abuse location tracking it may become more necessary to limit the access they have even further.
I've been using Tile Trackers for maybe about a year now, and they haven't lived up to my modest expectations for them. They have occasionally proven useful when looking for a misplaced wallet or keys in my home (although on some occasions they would not sound off when prompted), but the location based alerts (my most desired feature) don't work well. I understand this is still kind of a beta feature for Tile, and I've been providing feedback to Tile for the past year via their app and it's usually along the lines of: I got an alert that I left my house without my tile, but the tile is in my pocket... or I got an alert that I left the house without my tile (and I really did) but the notification came 15 or 20 minutes after I left home.
If Apple sells a tracking tag that actually works and alerts me appropriately, I will buy it. I guess the bad news for Tile is that Apple can better integrate their own devices, and as more third party developers abuse location tracking it may become more necessary to limit the access they have even further.
Don't make such ridiculous posts. Lot's of companies use SEPs, including Apple. You saying all Apple products that do so are poor?
That's a big fail there. Get rid of yours if you like that's your prerogative but being 3rd party has zero bearing on whether a company is trustworthy or not. They could have just as nefarious intentions wit your info, (or not), as the OEM does.
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The level of misinformation in this topic is just funny beyond belief, did you not even go to their website to research before you posted this?
Tile Pro tracking device (2020) - pack of 1 | Tile
Tile Pro finds lost keys and backpacks. It features our loudest ring and longest Bluetooth range, up to 400ft. This pack includes 1 black Tile Pro.
www.thetileapp.com
According to Tile, Find My, which is designed to let users locate lost iOS and Mac devices, has a major advantage over competing products because location tracking for Find My is enabled by default, while Tile must obtain user permission for location access in "deep, hard-to-find smartphone settings" that also has to be reauthorized with regular follow-up reminders.
yes, tile must obtain user permission, which is such a problem if a user buys their product and wants to use it. tile's just sad that their community(which is what would make their product work well, or not) is minuscule when compared to the amount of ios devices out there. f-n crybabies.
yes, tile must obtain user permission, which is such a problem if a user buys their product and wants to use it. tile's just sad that their community(which is what would make their product work well, or not) is minuscule when compared to the amount of ios devices out there. f-n crybabies.
I’m not saying either company is nefarious or not. I’m sure both Apple and Tile have their own best interests in mind, but I think both Apple and Tile have a financial interest in protecting the privacy of their paying customers. App developers of free or cheap apps? not so much. I just don’t buy Tile’s argument. It’s not hard to grant your Tile app the proper permissions. It just isn’t. The minimal challenge is appropriate for the permission they are requesting. Of course Apple devices are more streamlined. That’s okay with me. I’m not going to choose my tracking device based on what is easier to set up. I’m going to choose it based on what works well, and the Tile products have not worked very well for me. If Tile can improve, I will stick with them. If Apple releases the better functioning product, I will buy it instead. Bottom line: No third party product should be able to access my location data without there being a process to grant that permission. I am not as concerned about Apple because I already have a business relationship with Apple. That said I am still concerned about Apple changing how they handle my data. I’m not assuming any of these companies have my best interest at the top of their list, which is why I need to decide whether or not the benefits outweigh the risk when I add new apps or devices to my mobile platform. Tile is not convincing me that they have a cause for concern here.
It makes no sense to enable “find my” with location services disabled. However, as a counterpoint if one want to geofence reminders, location must be enabled for reminders just like tile.
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I wouldn’t distrust Tile automatically, but if Tim Cook days one thing and Apple does another, you can be sure there would be wide ranging implications.
dcdunk said:
Seriously, if your companies success is based on what another company is doing, then you have a poor product.
Seriously, if your companies success is based on what another company is doing, then you have a poor product.
Your analogy doesn’t work. For starters, glass can be made by anyone, so if Gorrilla glass became an issue for Apple, they could use a different glass maker (or perhaps make Sapphire screens - just kidding). Even modems, they can make their own clearly. And they are possibly working on their own Micro LED screens. Tile is requiring the smart device to work a certain way for their product to function properly, and they are basically saying it is only fair if Apple (and others) make their hardware and software support Tile’s business’s needs. Additionally, the relationship for Qualcomm is symbiotic; if nobody used their modems, they would be out of business. Qualcomm relies on the device makers as much as the device makers do on Qualcomm. Apple could give a flying (you know what) about whether Tile folds. When the relationship is one-way, as it is with Tile, that business is not necessarily viable in the long term. dcdunk is right.
Nope. The analogy is good.
If Apple could make glass like that they would. They aren’t just going to anyone either. That’s a stupid statement. Apple want a specific level of functionality. The product wouldn’t be the same without it.
likewise here.
You do realize Apple's entire portfolio does not contain one item with replaceable batteries? If they make a Tile competitor, you do know it will be 5 x more expensive and have about the same or less efficient battery life?
As with any Apple product, I also expect Apple to use their control over hardware and software to iron out the pain points with using a Bluetooth tracker.
For one, with technology such as W1 chip, I expect these Apple tags to have less impact on battery life. In countries like the US with a high adoption rate of Apple devices, you already have a huge install base which makes Apple tags a more attractive proposition. If I toss one into my bag and subsequently lose it, chances are higher that it will be near another iOS device than a tile tracker, which in turn increases the chances I will be able to locate it when I need to.
As I mentioned earlier, these are things that Tile will never be able to do because they don’t own the whole stack the same way Apple does. As such, I am not sure what Apple is expected to do here. Is Apple supposed to never do a Bluetooth tracker of their own simply because similar (albeit inferior) alternatives already exist on the market (meaning that the consumer loses), or is Apple supposed to give Tile (and every other similar company) the same level of access they give themselves? This sounds like a privacy and security nightmare however I look at it.
The people who try to paint this as an antitrust issue don’t seem to have a ready solution for this either, beyond parroting the same old refrain that Apple is in the wrong.
Ultimately, the biggest risk to these companies is Apple’s ability to turn an entire product market into an ecosystem feature. But as a consumer, my stance is and always has been that if Apple is able to take an emerging product category with a frustrating user experience and deliver a polished product made possible by its control over both the hardware and software, then go for it by all means.
While I absolutely understand why Tile wants Always On location data, I'm not entirely sure what their proposed alternative is. First, the argument that apple is opt out is simply false, every time I have ever setup an Apple device within recent memory, during setup I had to choose to enable location services (I literally just had to do it today while setting up my MacMini). Apple also has lots of documentation on how they use such location data and how they anonymize it and such.
Is Tile proposing that any app that wants to should be able to toggle Always On location tracking without any user interaction or knowledge? Cause I for one would never want any device that allowed that. I don't really see what the issue is, whenever a device requests location access for me, I get 3 options, Always Allow, Only while using the App, and Don't Allow. To me it seems like Tiles real issue is that most users are choosing Only while using the App, and I get why that might be a problem for their business model, but I don't see how they can justify taking the choice away from users.
They are also making a baseless assumption that Apple devices will be using a similar "mesh" location system, but the fact is they could absolutely design it so all that location data just stays on the device. Because the U1 chip is able to track location in 3 dimensions, it can keep track of the tags relative to it at all times, it could also locally log location and store the relative location of the tags anytime it loses track of them, then to find things the app could simply compare the location where the phone was and where the relative location to the phone the tag was at that time. No data actually ever would need to be sent to apple.
Not to say they won't use a mesh approach either, but I have a whole lot more faith in Apple to keep my location data private and not give it to other parties than I am to trust Tile. That too seems like Tile's problem, not Apples.
Is Tile proposing that any app that wants to should be able to toggle Always On location tracking without any user interaction or knowledge? Cause I for one would never want any device that allowed that. I don't really see what the issue is, whenever a device requests location access for me, I get 3 options, Always Allow, Only while using the App, and Don't Allow. To me it seems like Tiles real issue is that most users are choosing Only while using the App, and I get why that might be a problem for their business model, but I don't see how they can justify taking the choice away from users.
They are also making a baseless assumption that Apple devices will be using a similar "mesh" location system, but the fact is they could absolutely design it so all that location data just stays on the device. Because the U1 chip is able to track location in 3 dimensions, it can keep track of the tags relative to it at all times, it could also locally log location and store the relative location of the tags anytime it loses track of them, then to find things the app could simply compare the location where the phone was and where the relative location to the phone the tag was at that time. No data actually ever would need to be sent to apple.
Not to say they won't use a mesh approach either, but I have a whole lot more faith in Apple to keep my location data private and not give it to other parties than I am to trust Tile. That too seems like Tile's problem, not Apples.