I don’t remember ever being forced to enable location services during setup. But maybe my memory is faulty with that regard.
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Tile Decries Apple's iOS 13 Location Tracking Changes, Calls on Congress to 'Level the Playing Field' [Updated]
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Apple shared how find my works in iOS 13.
The Clever Cryptography Behind Apple's 'Find My' Feature
Apple says an elaborate rotating key scheme will soon let you track down your stolen laptop, but not let anyone track you. Not even Apple.
It's absolutely nuts and sounds like some next-gen sci-fi stuff, but I am also willing to bet that whatever Tile is doing is nowhere near as advanced or secure. I am also willing to bet that if Apple does release a bluetooth tracker of their own, it's going to resemble the Tile tracker only very superficially, but the way it works is going to be completely different (and superior).
I don't blame tile for not being able to do something similar. A company their size is not going to have the resources to do things the way Apple does, and they don't have their own ecosystem they can integrate their product with, meaning their product is only as effective as the number of such tiles they can sell.
But in the same vein, how is it Apple's fault that the other companies are facing the constraints that they do?
With Apple, every iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, AirPods case, laptop, even desktop is a tracker in its own right. The apple tile represents a cheap way of extending this "find my" feature to any item you own without the need to physically tape an iPhone to it, like your handbag, car keys, wallet, anything you might misplace really.
I have used the tile product, and it sucked. Between there virtually being zero install base in Singapore, the tile drained my iPhone's battery life pretty significantly, had a pretty short range, disconnected frequently and didn't even do that great a job of remembering the exact location where I last left it.
Should said product be released, I do see Tile eventually going the way of Pebble and Fitbit, and while that probably sucks, the reality is that they are ultimately losing to a superior product, and this strikes me as the market simply working as it should, rather than a case of Apple abusing its monopolistic power.
I believe that its an error to assume that a financially less resourceful enterprise is not able to present better and more secure services and products. Money does not buy everything. I understand that for the American culture, money solves everything and more money solves everything better. But history has proven otherwise several times.
Apple needs to be cautious I think, because its security stance and actions seams to lean towards devs area security risk for iOS users but them out of convenience. And in the processes seams to willing to annihilate the innovative devs that helped the company reaching the stage they are. Yes, Apple gave a lot in return, but is no where near what they have got back.
In the end that is the nature of business and devs are fine with that. What they are not fine with, is not to be treated in good faith and their business and innovation be pushed around by a "partner" whose objective is only to take over their business as they grow in size. Meanwhile the platform Master os innovating less and less while rising prices of their platform, indirectly contributing to less and less potential users for the devs business. Period.
As per Abazigal comment, he lacks understanding the devs can only explore what the platform offers to create their products and services. As the platform evolves so do they products. Yet, if platform evolution is systematically locked down to the Master services, of course that there is the basis of unfair competition. Apple has been playing this trick quite often. Much like MS did in the 90's and 2000's.
Cheers.
PS: For personal computing we only use Apple devices. And to be honest, in certain contexts I feel that I'm not getting a better experience because of this practice. While the platform, the collective tvOS, iOS, iPad OS, Watch OS), seams to come buggier. In and out of the intersection of these components.
Apple needs to be cautious I think, because its security stance and actions seams to lean towards devs area security risk for iOS users but them out of convenience. And in the processes seams to willing to annihilate the innovative devs that helped the company reaching the stage they are. Yes, Apple gave a lot in return, but is no where near what they have got back.
In the end that is the nature of business and devs are fine with that. What they are not fine with, is not to be treated in good faith and their business and innovation be pushed around by a "partner" whose objective is only to take over their business as they grow in size. Meanwhile the platform Master os innovating less and less while rising prices of their platform, indirectly contributing to less and less potential users for the devs business. Period.
As per Abazigal comment, he lacks understanding the devs can only explore what the platform offers to create their products and services. As the platform evolves so do they products. Yet, if platform evolution is systematically locked down to the Master services, of course that there is the basis of unfair competition. Apple has been playing this trick quite often. Much like MS did in the 90's and 2000's.
Cheers.
PS: For personal computing we only use Apple devices. And to be honest, in certain contexts I feel that I'm not getting a better experience because of this practice. While the platform, the collective tvOS, iOS, iPad OS, Watch OS), seams to come buggier. In and out of the intersection of these components.
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This is not true. There is plenty of innovation without rising prices and a billion devices for devs. Plenty of users.
Well, its quite evident that the iOS market share is shrinking as Android expands. And that means less potential users in iOS for devs to work with. Which is my observation. Now that does not mean there are not plenty of users. In that regard so have Windows and ...
Apples competitors are not buyers of cheap or free android phones. 1 billion Paying users with as many devices Is a huge market for products, not a shrinking market.
I disagree with a lot of the pro-Apple/anti-Tile opinions here, so I’m on the other side of the fence.
I would prefer that Apple create a world class hardware and software platform for third party developers to put together innovative solutions to run on. I don’t want Apple — like Microsoft — to be the do-all and end-all solution provider. It stifles competition and innovation. It almost seems that Apple uses their third-party program to direct their product development activities — looking for great ideas, implementing imitations, and pushing the originals over the cliff and out of business. Yes, it’s capitalism, and free-marketism, but I wish Apple wouldn’t go down this path. Monopolies we don’t need.
Flame away...
I would prefer that Apple create a world class hardware and software platform for third party developers to put together innovative solutions to run on. I don’t want Apple — like Microsoft — to be the do-all and end-all solution provider. It stifles competition and innovation. It almost seems that Apple uses their third-party program to direct their product development activities — looking for great ideas, implementing imitations, and pushing the originals over the cliff and out of business. Yes, it’s capitalism, and free-marketism, but I wish Apple wouldn’t go down this path. Monopolies we don’t need.
Flame away...
Again, you are missing my point. I haven't said its not a huge market stil in terms of potential buyers. My point is, it does not matter how huge the market is with unfair competition by the master ... it is artificially made smaller as far as third party devs go.
I am a strong believer that is one of the reasons why devs end up not adopting MS value proposition when tech turned mobile. They stiffed so much competition in the desktop space towards their product and services that they were unable to compete in a green field due to lack of devs interest given the history of practice.
Mind you, MS is not bad at all in the end as they moved to Cloud Services. But I'm certain that is not what Apple wants for its future.
When the iOS 3 was deployed apple apps and and services where not that functional at all. What actually made the difference was the Apple Store and how well the platform functioned. (iOS / devices) That not only called for more users but also for a flock of new devs along with their apps and innovation. Windows Mobile 7, 8 and tan 10 was not at all bad, yet devs did not flock to it in any shape of form.
Spotify indeed lead the innovation in terms of Music Services, only to be flanked by a trailing Apple offer in terms of service innovation that leveraged from the start on features hidden to third party devs. Apple deployed a Music streaming service based on the subscription model way later, simply following Spotify foot steps not leading. Before that you could buy only buy tracks and albums in iTunes Music. I was using Spotify for years when Apple Music appeared.
Take for instance Tidal also brining in high resolution music, Tidal Hi-Fi, yet they cannot match Apple conveniency because Siri platform features used by Apple Music are hidden to them.
In order for me to have both high resolution music and the convenience of Siri / iOS platform, I need to wait for Apple to decide to provide a similar service. Meaning, this is not good for any customer, but Apple.
As you have said, I'm not looking for cheap solutions, but good solutions. And the above practice is not a good solution at all for the challenges that lay ahead in terms of innovation. There must be a better solution.
Just saying.
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Where are the young nimble David's of the tech world that will knock the Goliath's down. I guess it's not Tile.
From the quote above as a general statement I couldn't disagree more, there maybe some individual cases where there may be some shenanigans going on, but what you posted sounds like a great rallying call as in:
- big is bad
- big is controlling
until the statement is dissected.
In Tile's case they are competing against a 10 year old function that overlaps Apples, "find my" that Apple implemented. Apple can probably implement a "find my devices" better because they had a great heaed start. However, what Tile seems to be complaining about is the location toggle, which to me seems silly, and Apple has already said it would address this in a future update.
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Apple isn't a monopoly as android has a bigger market share. But if Apple can implement some solution better than anybody else, they should and let the free market speak for itself.
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I do use Tile products and like them. That said, given how long it took tile to offer replaceable batteries and how they restrict you to the most basic functionality unless you pay $30/year for the App, they are a vile company that is not well liked by their customers, so they've left themselves vulnerable to be ruined by a company like Apple. That's why Tile is terrified of Apple, Tile's own customers despise them. I've been looking forward to Apple's trackers for ages, I never "upgraded" to the replacable battery Tiles just based on early Apple rumors, and I plan to dump Tile for Apple as soon as Apple's product launches.
But your logic makes no sense at all. You think a company should not be allowed to control their product unless they make all the steps that product relies on? So if Tile wants to make Tracking tiles, they should make the phones those Tiles need to function? Then the app store should not exist because the rely on iOS devices. By your reasoning, if Apple wants to control iPhones, they should make the cellular infrastructure hardware those phones require? Nobody should be allowed to make any electronic devices unless they own their own power plants and power distribution grid?
Fortunately society realizes how stupid your logic is and there are plenty of laws in place to prevent things from working the way you seem to think they should.
Hmmmmm... Do you think this present administration is interested in any form of Socialism versus their Corporations are God actual actions?
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Nice explanation. You have convinced the "good guy" in me to allow "always on" to participate in the "community".
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Maybe the Find My is a refinement that they feel is close to what they have - but as far as I'm aware Apple have been doing the device/people tracking before Tile weren't they?
This is a pretty tough situation to ask the law to help you out on - how could the government instruct Apple to drop or not 'try hard' at features that are hugely useful to its customers (myself included?).
I use Find My for my kids, wife, friends when we are meeting up for a bike ride etc. Be interested to see how this plays out.
This is a pretty tough situation to ask the law to help you out on - how could the government instruct Apple to drop or not 'try hard' at features that are hugely useful to its customers (myself included?).
I use Find My for my kids, wife, friends when we are meeting up for a bike ride etc. Be interested to see how this plays out.
But.... I plan to ditch my single Tile for an Apple tile if it ever comes to market. Apple is successful largely because they make an elegant, useful products that consumers want. And, then, the next upgrade is even more elegant and useful spurring a buying cycle with users replacing entirely good devices for the next best thing. I love the Apple eco-system. My Apple Watch unlocks my iMac. My AirPods automatically connect to my Apple TV. My iPhone is a technological marvel. There is choice out there. If you don't like Apple, don't buy them.
Hard to feel bad for Tile after I spent money on a 4 pack of the 2nd edition and they were total garbage. Had them in Chicago, so a large user base. I lost a set of keys - never found. The others rarely would be found for days. Just were absolute garbage. First edition Tiles worked great, all 16-18 months.
The problem with that is that for 1), there is zero reason for the tile app to ever communicate your location with tile. Every aspect of that scenario should be done locally. And for 2), there is zero reason unless through local access your local app has located a lost tile and then your app can inform Tile; providing location data a single time. Tile doesn't need everyone's location data.
I've got my location data for Tile turned off and will keep it that way. If the majority of users had the sense to do the same, Tile would have to change their data-siphoning ways. I absolutely applaud Apple here for helping build awareness of how vile companies like Tile are.
Not coincidentally, we have not seen Apple’s Tile-like device and don’t know that it outperforms Tile for battery life and location.
And I suggest we begin using Tile-like, as a community, to call a spade a spade. It’s Sherlocking of a good idea, from a small independent. And I’m not surprised Tile had to go to a subscription model to remain viable. Likely, too, they must be under extreme pressure to sell location data to remain viable.
This is a visible sign of what we hear goes on behind the scenes in Apple’s business dealings. That Apple are not necessarily the wholesome company it publicly portrays…
No doubt begun by Jobs, but perfected by orders of magnitude by kindly Uncle Tim. And we’ve heard stories about how curt he is to co-workers, the “Why are you still here?” story, etc. And we’ve seen how barely under control he actually is under public scrutiny. Practicing such control appears contrary to his natural disposition. No doubt, not an innate skill but a cultivated behaviour. Unless you listen to the sycophants, in awe of bis diplomatic abilities. Perhaps they’ve never seen how diplomatic sausage is made. And for Trump ‘haters’ out there, one reason Cook & Trump are able to co-cperate might well be because they both play hardball and speak the same language… behind closed doors.
Now to Apple’s business model not predicated on tracking. It ABSOLUTELY is, just not on using that location to push advertising, directly. Or even in the past, if you think about it. Beacons is not a user facing feature, but Apple has been wildly unsuccessful at selling Beacons to corporations that track us intimately. Wifi turned out to be cheaper to implement for malls, airports and anyone else who wants to know how we behave on their private property, and perhaps on-sell to businesses leasing space within their properties.
Enter two insidious developments
Ultra wideband chip and “System Services” that require tracking which cannot be turned off by astute users. There’s no excuse for not allowing user control of tracking, period. And especially no excuse for obfuscating such tracking, then bundling such tracking with user friendly features…try turning off Bluetooth to avoid Bluetooth tracking and see how well Airdrop (which only needs iCloud commonality not proximity, if you think about it… mmm, see how this game is played?), and see how your devices function.
Enter Ultra Wideband chip and it’s only user facing function, to “aid” Airdrop. Coincidentally, it can provide location to within centimetres… for a company that doesn’t base its business model on knowing location.
Ultra Wideband chip might be the competitive advantage Apple is looking for in the Beacons game. It’s little value to the user, but invaluable for those that want to track us, without our knowing. Yes, Apple is belatedly adding a switch for Ultra Wideband, no doubt due to public concerns, but watch the functionality of your device diminish, should you keep it turned off.
For those playing the Kindly Uncle Tim bingo card. Try this. Within months of Jobs’ death, Cook hired Kevin Lynch, Mr Flash, Jobs’ mortal enemy into “the core of Apple technologies”. Just think about the enormity of this, for a while.
Lynch was hired from Adobe, which bought an ad tracking company and moved its servers next door to an NSA facility in Utah, and which, in the words of an Adobe white paper… can provide security services with a profile of all internet users. Creative Suite may be a side business by now, for all I know, other than tools to produce advertising… but I digress.
Now think of the enormity of Lynch’s influence, heritage and implications, not least of which might be Tracking, considering trafficking in Tracking data is currently the internet’s only viable business model. Got to wonder what The Next Big Thing is in the circles of those that live as far into the future as the likes of Lynch.
Advertising is as big a con as it always was, upped orders of magnitude by click-bots, but now do you see the orders of magnitude Apple’s Ultra Wideband tracking can upp this game even more?
Hopefully the public will tire of security paranoia soon enough to discourage the Tracking business model, but Cities making free access to Uber’s tracking data a requirement for a licence to operate, shows how tech savvy those bumbling elected representatives really are. The bureaucrats’ golden rule of “go for bumbling over conspiracy every time” is more applicable in the computer age than ever.
The forces For Tracking need to be countered by the strongest possible PUBLIC action For Privacy.
Lest you think I’m a Cook “hater”, I do give him credit for ‘fighting the good fight’ as much as he can, given he might want to live a little longer than Jobs did. Wink. He did drop Routers, at a time when we need secure routers more than ever, and ‘assistance to law enforcement’ provisions were being applied ever more broadly in the telecommunications industry. Wink. Makes me wish I had a VPN affiliate link, now. Wink.Using a VPN only disables Airdrop on the more recent on my devices. Sigh.
And I suggest we begin using Tile-like, as a community, to call a spade a spade. It’s Sherlocking of a good idea, from a small independent. And I’m not surprised Tile had to go to a subscription model to remain viable. Likely, too, they must be under extreme pressure to sell location data to remain viable.
This is a visible sign of what we hear goes on behind the scenes in Apple’s business dealings. That Apple are not necessarily the wholesome company it publicly portrays…
No doubt begun by Jobs, but perfected by orders of magnitude by kindly Uncle Tim. And we’ve heard stories about how curt he is to co-workers, the “Why are you still here?” story, etc. And we’ve seen how barely under control he actually is under public scrutiny. Practicing such control appears contrary to his natural disposition. No doubt, not an innate skill but a cultivated behaviour. Unless you listen to the sycophants, in awe of bis diplomatic abilities. Perhaps they’ve never seen how diplomatic sausage is made. And for Trump ‘haters’ out there, one reason Cook & Trump are able to co-cperate might well be because they both play hardball and speak the same language… behind closed doors.
Now to Apple’s business model not predicated on tracking. It ABSOLUTELY is, just not on using that location to push advertising, directly. Or even in the past, if you think about it. Beacons is not a user facing feature, but Apple has been wildly unsuccessful at selling Beacons to corporations that track us intimately. Wifi turned out to be cheaper to implement for malls, airports and anyone else who wants to know how we behave on their private property, and perhaps on-sell to businesses leasing space within their properties.
Enter two insidious developments
Ultra wideband chip and “System Services” that require tracking which cannot be turned off by astute users. There’s no excuse for not allowing user control of tracking, period. And especially no excuse for obfuscating such tracking, then bundling such tracking with user friendly features…try turning off Bluetooth to avoid Bluetooth tracking and see how well Airdrop (which only needs iCloud commonality not proximity, if you think about it… mmm, see how this game is played?), and see how your devices function.
Enter Ultra Wideband chip and it’s only user facing function, to “aid” Airdrop. Coincidentally, it can provide location to within centimetres… for a company that doesn’t base its business model on knowing location.
Ultra Wideband chip might be the competitive advantage Apple is looking for in the Beacons game. It’s little value to the user, but invaluable for those that want to track us, without our knowing. Yes, Apple is belatedly adding a switch for Ultra Wideband, no doubt due to public concerns, but watch the functionality of your device diminish, should you keep it turned off.
For those playing the Kindly Uncle Tim bingo card. Try this. Within months of Jobs’ death, Cook hired Kevin Lynch, Mr Flash, Jobs’ mortal enemy into “the core of Apple technologies”. Just think about the enormity of this, for a while.
Lynch was hired from Adobe, which bought an ad tracking company and moved its servers next door to an NSA facility in Utah, and which, in the words of an Adobe white paper… can provide security services with a profile of all internet users. Creative Suite may be a side business by now, for all I know, other than tools to produce advertising… but I digress.
Now think of the enormity of Lynch’s influence, heritage and implications, not least of which might be Tracking, considering trafficking in Tracking data is currently the internet’s only viable business model. Got to wonder what The Next Big Thing is in the circles of those that live as far into the future as the likes of Lynch.
Advertising is as big a con as it always was, upped orders of magnitude by click-bots, but now do you see the orders of magnitude Apple’s Ultra Wideband tracking can upp this game even more?
Hopefully the public will tire of security paranoia soon enough to discourage the Tracking business model, but Cities making free access to Uber’s tracking data a requirement for a licence to operate, shows how tech savvy those bumbling elected representatives really are. The bureaucrats’ golden rule of “go for bumbling over conspiracy every time” is more applicable in the computer age than ever.
The forces For Tracking need to be countered by the strongest possible PUBLIC action For Privacy.
Lest you think I’m a Cook “hater”, I do give him credit for ‘fighting the good fight’ as much as he can, given he might want to live a little longer than Jobs did. Wink. He did drop Routers, at a time when we need secure routers more than ever, and ‘assistance to law enforcement’ provisions were being applied ever more broadly in the telecommunications industry. Wink. Makes me wish I had a VPN affiliate link, now. Wink.Using a VPN only disables Airdrop on the more recent on my devices. Sigh.
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Don’t think apple will make an AirPower mistake again. So not likely to see it unless and if it becomes a real product.
Don’t think apple wants to risk wholesale lawsuits by trampling on their devs. Although using Bluetooth for tracking purposes is not a new idea.
We have?
Apples business model is not predicated one tracking. Apples business model is predicated I’m selling hardware and services.
UWB can be turned off in iOS 13.1.1 beta 2.
Not basing a business model on location is not the same as not having useful functions to accurately track objects.
Watch the functionality of the phone diminish if one turns off cellular data or other functions that add value.
Would be a bad move and black eye to apple fort using this for adverts without being able to turn it off.
The horse has left the barn with this as Android is getting a chip also.
Just did it on a new Mac Mini and a new iPhone. Apple requires one to choose if one wants to enable location services and tells how the data will be used.
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May need that for the app store setup. Obviously after that location services can be disabled.
Has Apple actually announced AirTags yet? They could simply never mention the product and it would not be a repeat of AirPower. Perhaps AirPower is the reason they haven't mentioned AirTags yet.
Apple copies lots of stuff from their devs. And they have to, otherwise iOS wouldn't be much past version 4 level of features and everything else would be a kludge of hundreds of $2.99 utilities. It's been this way since the dawn of computing. Many third party apps become core features. Most of what's new in photoshop for the past 15 years started as third party plugins.
I agree, I can't see Apple doing that. The only reason I use Apple is because they're willing to sell me a product, make their profit off me and I'm their customer. With sleazy companies like Google, you're not their customer, you're the product they sell the scum they count as real customers. If Apple started selling or giving out customer data like location, I'd ditch them in a heartbeat.
At this point, I don't really mind Apple having my data because I don't believe they will sell it to marketing scum. If Apple uses my location data in Maps to provide traffic data to their other customers using Maps (which they do), that's fine with me. If they use my location data to help scummy companies sell ads or to profile me, that's not okay.
Here's the sole reason I'm not worried about what Apple does:
As an iPhone user, I'm choosing the less dominant platform, and part of that is because of how locked down it is.
So what is your proposed solution here? That Apple should allow apps to enable always on tracking without user consent? Even Apple gives you the choice to enable location services during device setup. Also you say they are stifling innovation but by all accounts the UWB tech and the encryption tech being implemented are drastically more innovative than what tile offers.
Are you saying the big guys should not be allowed to create innovative advancements to technologies and ideas if any little fish is already even remotely implementing similar functions?
The perfect example of why I don’t want always on tracking enabled by default for 3rd parties is Uber and their previous “god mode” app that allowed them to track all of their users in real-time. You act as if there is no good reason Apple increased the privacy controls when there was clear evidence of 3rd party developers abusing the open access they had.
If you don’t want a fully integrated platform top to bottom, there is a quite simple solution. Use android. I for one specifically buy Apple products because of the cohesive and unified experience which is unmatched by any competitor and the closed system where apple makes great effort to protect its users privacy. Apple takes a number of steps to limit even what they can see in your data, google gobbles up as much as possible and sells every bit they can, and they clearly are NOT concerned with user privacy as shown by the open access apis they were granting to developers allowing them to directly view emails in users gmail accounts without their consent or even awareness.
I have seen no information to indicate that Tile is taking a similar approach to Apple to ensure they themselves have limited to no access to location data of their users. I would not be surprised at all to learn that the entire location history of a device running tile with always on location tracking is sitting in a database somewhere that a number of tile employees have open access to.
It is extremely hard to make the comparison from Microsoft to Apple, because while Apple’s user base is no doubt expanding, their market share is small and shrinking. They are not even remotely close to the dominance Microsoft and Windows had for decades.
Apples entire business model these days is built around a secure closed and private interconnected system and in this space they have NO competition.
Apple will never have the position that Microsoft did as the owner of the platform across tons of different OEMs. And I don't think they actually want it.
I don't think Apple seeks to have the market position Microsoft did either, nor do they want it. It is too hard to balance premium and "cheap" products under one brand.
Apple would still do this if there was no store. Apple is nearly always a late adopter, often in stagnated markets where they think they could make a differentiated offering through design and experience. iPod was hardly the first MP3 player, iPhone the first smartphone, Watch the first smartwatch, etc. The number of products is kept down to limit how broad they have to spread focus, and this is done based on the size of the impact.
Only if you define the market as “iOS Phones”. If the market is smart phones, Apple does not control enough of it to be a monopoly.
Sorry, I was not clear (I edited my original to clarify). Apple requires users to choose if they want to enable location services, not that they force them to do it.