Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
It's very simple. Apple has invented some nice stuff that makes iPhones (and iPads, and Macs) work better than other devices that don't copy Apple's invention. And customers love it. Which is why Samsung is copying it.

This isn't what this case is about. Utility patents are a very small portion of the claims and damage awards sought by Apple. Most of their claims rest on trade dress and design patents, which has nothing to do with making devices "work better than others", otherwise, there is no way to have the design patents granted in the first place (as functional elements can't be patented under design patents, only utility patents).

Read up on the actual case.
 
A better example would be to say that Apple painted a portrait of a horse. It was incredibly popular, and sold millions. Apple then applies for the patent on "picture of horse using oil based color paints applied to a canvas medium".

Of course, since Apple's original painting was so popular, someone else takes Apple's idea of horse paintings and goes out to create their own. Ride the hype, as it were, and add their own flourishes.

...and, of course, they all end up in court, where they have to make lame arguments such as "Apple's horse is from a front on perspective, and the frame is oriented as a portrait. My client's horse painting is at a steeper angle, and uses a wider landscape frame. The fact that both horses are brown is completely beside the point. Apple does not own exclusive rights to brown horses. Now, what I want to draw your attention to next is the second in the Portrait of a Brown Horse series. Notice the barn in the background on my client's Landscape Painting of a Brown Horse. That's their innovation, and they have a patent for it. Now notice the background in Portrait 2. That's right. It's a barn. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case".

The end result of this case is likely to be that the lawyers make millions, the patents are invalidated across the board, the jury loses precious time out of their lives listening to this BS, and no one comes out happy.

Well, except for the lawyers, and the public, who now have tons of pretty horse pictures to choose from.

Your are aware that Apple and Samsung have become a duopoly as far as industry profits? That will have substantial effect on competition; more so than these patent wars, and will create a race to the bottom where Apple continues to retain most of the profits long after the bulk of Android OEM's have left the business.

If anything, it could be argued that Samsung benefited from copying Apple and moved even farther ahead of its Android rivals, still leaving 75% of industry profits in Apple's hands, but keeping 15% or more for themselves.

That's 10% split amongst all the others.
 
Your picture only shows two phones with their default homescreen. Turn a S2 on out of the box and you would in no way confuse it for iOS.

How many times do customers turn off their phones prior to buying? The vast majority of the time, you'll see the default home screen when on display.

Furthermore, deception is just one form of damage that can occur when someone copies someone else's product. You also reduce the value of the owner's IP by flooding the market with lookalikes. Again, you stymie innovation with copycats, because the infringing entities are just riding on the laurels of another and thus reducing the motivation to come up with something truly new.
 
For the last ****ing time

When you post a comparison shot showing the iPhone HomeScreen and the Android AppDrawer you just make yourself look dumb.

That's why we so called Fandroids (I refer to myself as Android user but you will call me Fandroid nevertheless) are just ridiculing you Apple sheeps. I have a HomeScreen full with many widgets. The most used propmotion shot for every Android features a Clock&Weather widget on the homescreen.

Same applies to every promo mobile handset. So if you want to be taken serious in these discussions - for the love of god - educate yourself and stop posting this stupid AppDrawer shot over and over again.:mad:

Actually, using variations of fanboy and <insert company name> sheep makes you look pathetic, as does losing your s*** in a forum discussion.

As a former Android user, I think I have a right to my opinion. Deal with it.

now go look at the old Pocket PC, blackberries, palms and other mobile devices. grid of icons. apple wasn't the first to do it.

As someone who carried palm devices for years over a decade, I maintain it would be pretty difficult to mistake them for an iPhone. Below are just two I used. The icons and home screen (to me) bare little resemblance to that of Apple's phone.

treo300.jpg
treo650.jpg


It's not so much the grid of icons I take exception with but more the shape and choice of design. However, I believe the Newton's home screen predates the examples you cited.
 
How many times do customers turn off their phones prior to buying? The vast majority of the time, you'll see the default home screen when on display.

Yup, and the default homescreen on even Touchwiz looks quite a bit different than the iOS springboard. What you usually see in these Samsung vs. Apple debates is a picture of the Android app drawer.

The default homescreen, at least on the Galaxy SIII, looks more like this:

S3.jpg


Superficially similar, but not an exact copy.

Furthermore, deception is just one form of damage that can occur when someone copies someone else's product. You also reduce the value of the owner's IP by flooding the market with lookalikes. Again, you stymie innovation with copycats, because the infringing entities are just riding on the laurels of another and thus reducing the motivation to come up with something truly new.

Innovation is only stymied if the "imitator" doesn't do enough to improve upon or differentiate their product from what's come before. The iPhone itself is an example of innovation through evolution of other's ideas, considering it's very obviously inspired by what's come before, but Apple didn't just flat out copy previous designs without any improvements of their own.

Just because Android looks similar to iOS doesn't make it a "copycat" product. Google has made plenty of improvements upon to the core ideas presented in the iPhone, in much the same way the iPhone improved upon ideas presented in Blackberries, Windows Mobile phones, and the rest.

Of course Samsung is an entirely different matter. Touchwiz is...well...I dunno if it's flat out copying, but it does toe the line on occasion.
 
Last edited:
You are right. There aren't many ways to design a touch screen.

or an icon

Samsung-Phone.jpg

What's most annoying about this is how upside down the interpretation is. The apple "innovation" here is adding the lines to the icon, not the shape, color or phone design. So none of the images below are actually copying Apple.

And that's the irritating thing about Apple law suits. They modify some existing design in a trivial way, say they were the first and then claim the world.
 
How many stupid threads are we going to have on MR arguing over who copied who and who invented what. :rolleyes:
 
I have an Apple Newton from 1993 that has an icon grid similar to my iPhone ;) .


That said, it still wasn't the first, but neither are your examples ;) .

So, you're saying there's a lot of prior art out there to invalide Apple's "grid of icons on a smartphone!" patent ? ;)
 
I have an Apple Newton from 1993 that has an icon grid similar to my iPhone ;) .

Apple's claimed trade dress in this particular lawsuit is described in this way:

iPhone Trade Dress

"The iPhone is radically different from the devices that preceded it.

It has a distinctive shape and appearance — a flat rectangular shape with rounded corners, a metallic edge, a large display screen bordered at the top and bottom with substantial black segments, and

a selection of colorful square icons with rounded corners that mirror the rounded corners of the iPhone itself, and which are the embodiment of Apple’s innovative iPhone user interface. "

- Apple

The Newton only had black and white icons, so it doesn't count :) :)
 
Actually, using variations of fanboy and <insert company name> sheep makes you look pathetic, as does losing your s*** in a forum discussion.

As a former Android user, I think I have a right to my opinion. Deal with it.



As someone who carried palm devices for years over a decade, I maintain it would be pretty difficult to mistake them for an iPhone. Below are just two I used. The icons and home screen (to me) bare little resemblance to that of Apple's phone.

ImageImage

It's not so much the grid of icons I take exception with but more the shape and choice of design. However, I believe the Newton's home screen predates the examples you cited.

Those screens simply look like colour versions of the Apple's Newton screen.

The image of the Samsung showing the app drawer, is the image that Samsung itself used when promoting the phone, that's why it's pertinent.

Whatever.... I'm ready for all of this foolishness to be done.
 
$2.1 billion = The magic number to end this all!

$2.5 billion (Samsung owes Apple) - $0.4 billion (Apple owes Samsung) = $2.1 billion (Samsung pays Apple)

:D
 
Those screens simply look like colour versions of the Apple's Newton screen.

The image of the Samsung showing the app drawer, is the image that Samsung itself used when promoting the phone, that's why it's pertinent.

Not to mention it's what's on the box as someone also pointed out
 
"Late on Sunday, Judge Lucy Koh, the federal judge presiding over the Apple v. Samsung trial in San Jose, surprisingly overruled Magistrate Judge Paul S. Grewal and entered an order that is a major breakthrough for Samsung. This reversal significantly increases the Korean company's chances of getting a verdict it can live with.

Instead of providing an adverse inference instruction only against Samsung, the court will tell the jury the same thing about both companies.

Here's what the court intends to say about Samsung (theoretically, this could still change after the parties' high-priority objections and a Monday hearing):

"Samsung Electronics Company has failed to preserve evidence for Apple's use in this litigation after Samsung Electronics Company's duty to preserve arose. Whether this fact is important to you in reaching a verdict in this case is for you to decide."

And the same thing about Apple:

"Apple has failed to preserve evidence for Samsung's use in this litigation after Apple's duty to preserve arose. Whether this fact is important to you in reaching a verdict in this case is for you to decide."

As a result, the jury will not consider Samsung less trustworthy than Apple, which would have been the case if Judge Grewal's decisions to give such an instruction only against Samsung but not against Apple had been upheld."
 
I'm constantly disappointed by the concept of Apple going from underdog, to alpha dog being supported and lauded by the fan community at large.

While we should want justice, and for all to remain on level and fair playing grounds, we should equally not want Apple to find victory from success, or our own partisan viewpoints alone.
 
As much as I tend to loathe Microsoft, at least they are trying to be original.

It's plausible that Microsoft is unhappy with the overall progression of their brand recognition. They've been quite profitable overall, but they miss a lot of things where people expect them to be. Even though these are all large companies (Microsoft, Apple, Samsung, Sony, Amazon, etc.) MS has in theory missed a lot of potential growth opportunities. Much of the time they end up investing enormous funds trying to force their way in, like they did with the Xbox/Xbox 360, where their investors expect them to get in early. It's generally a problem as companies grow to such a size. They become top heavy and have difficulty adapting to such changes.

Samsung: Seems you were right all along, Mr Cook.

Apple: Ha. Didn't I tell y'all that the free publicity would be priceless?

Samsung: It's amazing! Both our smartphone sales have gone out of sight!

Apple: Here's a check for the two billion dollars, btw. Give it back when you lose.

Samsung: Thanks, buddy! So what's next on our agenda?

Apple: I think we're going to add Wacom pen support to the iPad. This time you complain, and we'll play innocent.

Samsung: Brilliant!

Apple: Hey, that's why I'm CEO!

That's so silly:D.

Apple's claimed trade dress in this particular lawsuit is described in this way:



The Newton only had black and white icons, so it doesn't count :) :)

Where do you find so much information? I've tried to locate it via some of the blogs covering this case, yet I've never been able to locate the amount of reference you quote in these threads.


$2.1 billion = The magic number to end this all!

$2.5 billion (Samsung owes Apple) - $0.4 billion (Apple owes Samsung) = $2.1 billion (Samsung pays Apple)

:D

It's still a collection of claims. Some of the utility patents may or may not be found valid. Some devices may not pass even if Apple does secure an overall win. Given the matrix of claims it's not really an all or nothing here. From that you must factor in Samsung's claims. They may not get 400 million. These are all placeholder values in a sense that assume things are interpreted in a very specific way unless I'm really missing something here.
 
So, you're saying there's a lot of prior art out there to invalide Apple's "grid of icons on a smartphone!" patent ? ;)

You can infer whatever you like :) .


Apple's claimed trade dress in this particular lawsuit is described in this way:



The Newton only had black and white icons, so it doesn't count :) :)

Indeed :) . I wasn't saying that Apple had the original prior art, I was just relaying info that the example given by the OP really wasn't old enough :) .
 
It's still a collection of claims. Some of the utility patents may or may not be found valid. Some devices may not pass even if Apple does secure an overall win. Given the matrix of claims it's not really an all or nothing here. From that you must factor in Samsung's claims. They may not get 400 million. These are all placeholder values in a sense that assume things are interpreted in a very specific way unless I'm really missing something here.

Sorry, that was meant to be a snarky/joke/not-take-seriously post... :eek:
:D
 
Not to mention it's what's on the box as someone also pointed out

Uh ?

Box :
samsung-gt-i9000.jpg


Homescreen:

Galaxy-S_GT-I9000_1.jpg


----------

Where do you find so much information? I've tried to locate it via some of the blogs covering this case, yet I've never been able to locate the amount of reference you quote in these threads.

Groklaw has a full timeline :

http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=AppleSamsung

Then there's Google patents for searching the patent database :

http://patents.google.com

Patents can be entered by number if you know them (listed in the complaints usually), like Apple's famous D'889 tablet design patent from 2004 (USD504889) :

http://www.google.com/patents/USD504889
 
Sorry, that was meant to be a snarky/joke/not-take-seriously post... :eek:
:D

Bleck... I interpret things too literally at times. I should have noted the ":D".


Uh ?


Groklaw has a full timeline :

http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=AppleSamsung

Then there's Google patents for searching the patent database :

http://patents.google.com

Patents can be entered by number if you know them (listed in the complaints usually), like Apple's famous D'889 tablet design patent from 2004 (USD504889) :

http://www.google.com/patents/USD504889

Thank you. That is an excellent collection of reference material.
 
It's very simple. Apple has invented some nice stuff that makes iPhones (and iPads, and Macs) work better than other devices that don't copy Apple's invention. And customers love it. Which is why Samsung is copying it. Samsung has no right to make copies. Apple, on the other hand, is forced to put a dollar amount on it. So they say "for $35 per Samsung phone that copies our stuff we will stop complaining".

Let's say you bought a nice home, and then you get neighbors moving in who play very loud music all night. And a judge tells them that they should pay you damages. How would the judge fix the damages? One way would be to ask you: For how many dollars would you stop complaining about the noise?

Which is where the issue of patentability comes into play. I will agree that Apple has been copied by Samsung. I will disagree that they do not have the right to use the design elements they are being sued for.

My assertion is that Apple's design patent is non-inventive and certainly not novel. The device depicted in it can be constructed using these guidelines:
  • A rectangular prism.
  • On one of the two facets defined by the two largest dimensions create an inset rectangle. This will be the display.
  • Round off the corners that perpendicularly intersect the facet described one line above.
  • Round off the edges of the rectangular prism that run parallel to those of the facet with the inset rectangle.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.