Tim Cook 'Deeply Offended' by BBC Documentary on Apple Factory Conditions

[bigchrisfgb]

Documentaries like this are made by the kind of people that think we should have no taxes AND universal free healthcare. Unrealistic and idealistic thinking not based on what the world is actually like.

I have no doubt Apple could do more but this was just a shock doc as bad as anything channel 4 or 5 produces.

What makes you think anyone involved in the BBC documentary thinks we should pay no taxes? The BBC or atlas the UK part of it is funded by tax payers, the rest of it is funded via distribution rights.

Also whats wrong with free healthcare? Many countries have successful free to use healthcare systems, meanwhile the rest of the world is shocked when the poor and the sick in the USA vote against free health care, all in fear of being accused of being a communist if you vote in favour of it. It's like Turkeys voting for Christmas.

 

[Rogifan]

im not the one making the statement that its impossible to treat the workers better or that the factories apple deals with are the best in china.

and again there is a big step between a vast improvement for these people and western standards. do you not agree with me there?

so now you disagree with the BOM reports?

BOM reports are estimates, just like IDC and Gartner market share reports. Estimates don't really mean anything to me.

 

[Renzatic]

No I'm not saying they shouldn't have shown it. But don't go saying its not a Chinese country problem to fix. They make it out like its apples fault but its the country. The whole country.

Actually, I'd say it's a problem endemic of the whole global economy, of which Apple is a part. It isn't just China's fault, though they're guilty of exploiting their own population to make a buck. It isn't just Apple's fault, though they're guilty of leveraging China's lax labor standards to cut costs. It isn't just our fault, though we're guilty of turning a blind eye to it so we can get our gadgets for cheap.

There isn't one sole target here. It's a problem that exists because we all accept it to a point.

 

[bigchrisfgb]

Unfortunately brainless idiots here in the UK 100% believe everything the media tell them and can't think for themselves.

If you think this BBC report is bad and you want to see some really bad reporting pick yourself up a copy of the Daily Mail or jump on their website.

Are you kidding me? The Daily Mail is laughed off time and time again, only out of touch OAP's read it.
How about the fact that according to independent polls the majority of the population was actually in favour of new rules regarding the press and what the can and can't do?

 

[Zxxv]

its about apple and from their perspective so the $5 it means the cost for apple. it certainly could have been clearer but that is a figure that has often been mentioned.

it isn't clear. $5 to make the iPhone or $5 on that line. What about parts cost, materials, was it $5 to assemble but the rest of the chain, what are those costs? if it costs apple $5 to make an iPhone and they sell for unlocked $649 for a 16gb model thats a what profit? more than they said on the program. So it doesn't add up. So panorama twisted the truth to get a reaction right?

 

[Rogifan]

You're right. Maybe it would've been more fair if they included all the tech manufacturers involved. But does the fact that they solely used the biggest and brightest brand of the bunch as the prime example lessen the impact of the documentary as a whole? Would it have had as much impact on the viewing public if they focused on MS or Samsung?

They're not saying Apple is a terrible tyrant who is directly responsible for these abuses. Rather, they're saying this is how you get your iPhone.

Right, this is how you get your iPhone. Not your Galaxy or Xbox. I saw so many tweets from people using the term "Apple factory" as if Apple owned these factories. I don't think that would have been the case had they focused on the industry as a whole. This isn't an Apple-specific problem it's an industry wide problem. I'm not arguing that they shouldn't focus on Apple, I'm arguing that the focus should be on everyone else too.

 

[numlock]

No I'm not saying they shouldn't have shown it. But don't go saying its not a Chinese country problem to fix. They make it out like its apples fault but its the country. The whole country.

He sent his 15yr old son off to work in a factory. The kid died. He should have been at school. The father used the boy for money and it backfired. If the conditions were that bad everyone would be die'ing.

bad stuff happens, but so does good. Where was the balance, where were the happy people, none to be found, surely not?

is china forbidding apple to demand better treatment?

yeah and i think it was obvious he blamed himself and lets respect him and his loss. a 15 year old shouldnt die though.

the lack of happy people is that your only other objection?

BOM reports are estimates, just like IDC and Gartner market share reports. Estimates don't really mean anything to me.

yet tim cook uses some of their analysis.

 

[Renzatic]

...it doesn't add up. So panorama twisted the truth to get a reaction right?

If you can prove it, take them to task for it. Right now, we're all pissing in the wind over what's what.

 

[numlock]

it isn't clear. $5 to make the iPhone or $5 on that line. What about parts cost, materials, was it $5 to assemble but the rest of the chain, what are those costs? if it costs apple $5 to make an iPhone and they sell for unlocked $649 for a 16gb model thats a what profit? more than they said on the program. So it doesn't add up. So panorama twisted the truth to get a reaction right?

$5 to assemble ie factory workers

and i agree it could have been much clearer.

 

[Zxxv]

Actually, I'd say it's a problem endemic of the whole global economy, of which Apple is a part. It isn't just China's fault, though they're guilty of exploiting their own population to make a buck. It isn't just Apple's fault, though they're guilty of leveraging China's lax labor standards to cut costs. It isn't just our fault, though we're guilty of turning a blind eye to it so we can get our gadgets for cheap.

There isn't one sole target here. It's a problem that exists because we all accept it to a point.

A lot of these countries are just going through what our ancestors went through (in our industrial revolution) to get us here. We have a birds eye view of how our ancestors suffered to make our lives comftable.

----------

is china forbidding apple to demand better treatment?

yeah and i think it was obvious he blamed himself and lets respect him and his loss. a 15 year old shouldnt die though.

the lack of happy people is that your only other objection?



yet tim cook uses some of their analysis.

no its not my only other objection. Im trying to point out one or two for you so you can see the rest all falls apart. Something built upon a lie is a lie.


Sure I respect the guy and his loss but at the expense of deception of others I think not. See it for what it was. Dont let your emotions cloud your view.

 

[Renzatic]

A lot of these countries are just going through what our ancestors went through (in our industrial revolution) to get us here. We have a birds eye view of how our ancestors suffered to make our lives comftable.

This is true. What China's going through now is basically like our Gilded Age, hopped up on crank and steroids.

Though one of the advantages of hindsight is that you can learn from that past example. You can try to ease things into better circumstances slowly, rather than riding it for all its worth until it blows up in your face.

 

[numlock]

no its not my only other objection. Im trying to point out one or two for you so you can see the rest all falls apart. Something built upon a lie is a lie.


Sure I respect the guy and his loss but at the expense of deception of others I think not. See it for what it was. Dont let your emotions cloud your view.

i would appreciate if you share them (pm if you prefer)

the episode had covered workers exhaustion so its not like they just threw a teenagers death in there without context. so how is it not relevant? you cannot do a story like this without having something that affects you emotionally.

 

[Arran]

You're right. Maybe it would've been more fair if they included all the tech manufacturers involved. But does the fact that they solely used the biggest and brightest brand of the bunch as the prime example lessen the impact of the documentary as a whole? Would it have had as much impact on the viewing public if they focused on MS or Samsung?

They're not saying Apple is a terrible tyrant who is directly responsible for these abuses. Rather, they're saying this is how you get your iPhone.

Agreed.

Apple is the cleanest of the tech companies and the program is inviting us to ponder what the worst manufacturers might be like.

Brand defensiveness and internet squabbles miss the point. Although it does suggest a certain uncomfortableness with the reality of offshore manufacturing - so perhaps the point hasn't been lost entirely?

 

[Renzatic]

Agreed.

Apple is the cleanest of the tech companies and the program is inviting us to ponder what the worst manufacturers might be like.

Brand defensiveness and internet squabbles miss the point. Although it does suggest a certain uncomfortableness with the reality of offshore manufacturing - so perhaps the point hasn't been lost entirely?

That's the major point. Rogifan is right in that it might skew public perception towards Apple unfairly by focusing on them exclusively. But that doesn't besmirch the point of the documentary itself, nor make it any less true. It's not meant to be about the entire industry. It's the story of Apple's part in it.

 

[quickcalibre]

Your kidding right?

a Programm that says it costs $5 to put an iPhone together but doesn't say if thats what foxcon pays its workers or if thats what apple pays foxcon.

A program that shows a fathers sending their sons to work and doing so hints its apples fault not the country or the fathers.

and the list goes on.

Panorama has been broadcasting for more than 50 years, it's probably one of the most respected documentary series in the world, exposing corruption and rights of human beings. So nah, not kidding.

I know you love your apple products as much as we all do, but time to take those rose tinted glasses off.

Apples promises have been broken, even if they are out of apples control and via third parties, the workers were clearly over worked, bullied and exhausted, and in my opinion apple needs to do more.

 

[Rogifan]

That's the major point. Rogifan is right in that it might skew public perception towards Apple unfairly by focusing on them exclusively. But that doesn't besmirch the point of the documentary itself, nor make it any less true. It's not meant to be about the entire industry. It's the story of Apple's part in it.

Why not?

Now that I know Ralph Nader was part of this documentary it's even more of a joke than I thought.

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patent...pple-is-motivated-by-politics-and-unions.html

 

[Arran]

...it might skew public perception towards Apple unfairly by focusing on them exclusively.

I think that underestimates the intelligence of the public.

----------

Why not?

Why is it not about the entire industry?

It is.

 

[numlock]

Why not?

Now that I know Ralph Nader was part of this documentary it's even more of a joke than I thought.

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patent...pple-is-motivated-by-politics-and-unions.html

wait you havent seen it yet?

nader has like 30 sec screen time and if you disagree with his statements i would like to hear why

and seriously this piece on patentlyapple is comical

 

[fivenotrump]

It IS public broadcasting.

The BBC don't have an agenda, they're impartial, that's the point.

Very amusing I'm sure! The BBC have a clear agenda, which includes Israel-bashing, promotion of homosexuality, and other causes espoused by the types that run it. Many of us who pay the compulsory BBC tax, called the 'licence fee', are appalled by their bias.

 

[Renzatic]

I think that underestimates the intelligence of the public.

It's not an issue of intelligence, so much as perspective and interest. An old friend of mine wouldn't buy Apple gear because of what he's heard about the conditions of where they're made. He's a pretty smart guy, but isn't too up to date on the latest and greatest tech gossip. I explained to him that his Samsung TVs, his Xbox360, and his smartphone were made in the same factories, and he pretty much accepted it.

So while I do agree with Rogifan insofar that it might not be the most fair thing in the world, I don't think it makes the story itself suspect. The documentary went with the best known as a launching point. They're not attacking Apple so much as using them to get their point across. It works because more people have more interest in iPhones and iPads than they do Xboxes and Samsung TVs.

 

[bpcookson]

The conditions in these factories are bad. Really, really bad. But I found it extremely biased to pick out and focus on Apple individually. The story's the same in pretty much every factory producing products for the tech industry.

Of course companies (including Apple) need to do WAY more than what they're doing at the moment, but the government is also to blame. Laws need to be put in to place, otherwise businesses WILL exploit the gaps. They're businesses after all, not charities. With the number one goal to make as much money as possible.

Exactly. The real issue at hand is the global impact of Capitalism where two given regions can have such disparate economies, thus promoting the exploitation of vulnerable parties.

To put the focus directly on Apple is a cheap move to garner as much publicity as possible. The BBC is riding coat tails hard.

 

[69650]

I love Apple and use many of their products and services. I am grateful for what they do. But I am also thankful to live in Germany, where some of the best products in the world are made without resorting to international slavery. UK and USA don't seem to be able to produce anything without racial segregation and slavery, but the German integrated approach works. Now we have Apple killing domestic companies working on Gorilla Glass to favour Asian ones. A good strategic move to make sure that in the future their employees will be treated as robots. And yet there are many Apple fans on this forum screaming for Apple's right to use slavery. Most of these people probably never worked more than 5 hours with our browsing internet and drinking some Cappuccino. They would never survive the Chinese working environment and yet they love to play tough on a forum justifying Apple's most disappointing problems. These people commenting would probably be among the first ones attempting suicide in Chine, but they can comment comfortably in California on NY and play tough. I don't care about them because they will be replaced soon but this attitude doesn't help Apple. It's like giving more drugs to a junky. I would prefer to see Apple face the problem and fix it.

That's because most of them are fat lazy ignorant Americans who know nothing about the rest of the world but pontificate as if they're expects.

 

[Piggie]

Just to correct this point.

We in the UK don't have free health care as such, the money is taken without any choice from the wages of the millions of people in the country that work.

The money comes from Tax collected before you get your hands on your months wages.
As opposed to being given all your wages, and then you selecting to buy your own health insurance.

It's free (The National Health Service) at the point of delivery, in the same way the Police and Fire Services are. You still have to pay.

Of course, if you are out of work as you can't find a job, or you are a bone idol lazy bastard who needs a kick up the ass and forced to work for a living and not sponge of state handouts, then you don't pay in, and you get the health service for free also.

I think our service is better in the UK. Whilst you can opt to go Private, it's good to have the Tax payer funded service also, so you don't have to balance your health/an operation against can you afford it as a family.

 

[fivenotrump]

How about the fact that according to independent polls the majority of the population was actually in favour of new rules regarding the press and what the can and can't do?

These people likely didn't understand the question, or they thought that Hugh Grant must be right since he speaks with a middle class accent.

 

[michial]

I'm sure all big companies are guilty of this to one degree. Apple maybe less but its naive to assume Apple isn't. What some upper class president in sunny Cupertino says on a letter doesn't mean its actually being enforced in a tin mine or third world factory in real life situations. Thats why keeping production in the USA is the best way.